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Final EotM - Theme Discussion: Final Boss Theme


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#1 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 12:00 PM

Recent discussions with members and staff has lead me to conclude that Enemy of the Month is on life support. Nothing has convinced me this more than EotM #27 and its 4 month struggle to get 3 entries. Despite community interest in this contest and some members feeling it is the best contest of them all. This contest lacks one key feature, the interest to participate. The participation is just not there like it used to be.  

 

So I've decided to make Enemy of the Month #28 the final one and start planning on something new which was briefly discussed here and here. I am hoping with community and staff cooperation and careful planning, I'll have this new contest (or whatever it will be called) started up in early 2018. I have over 2 months of planning with this, so it's safe to say that whatever decisions that are made by then will probably be the ones that we'll be very confident in. 

 

My only regret is not making it to 30, but I feel time has ran out for Enemy of the Month. But I digress, lets get to the theme discussion!

 

 

Theme: Final Boss Theme

Deadline: December 23rd (Around Christmas Time)

(Note: This EotM only needs at least 1 submission to proceed)

 

There's very little to describe here. Just give this contest a final boss and lets find out who is the true final boss of Enemy of the Month. 

 

Now since this is a discussion topic, by all means, discuss. :P



#2 Anthus

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 12:34 PM

I like this idea. Too bad no one has been entering. Hopefully we'll see some cool, or completely troll final bosses.

#3 Shoelace

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 11:11 AM

When I made the idea for Enemy of the Month, I didn't think it would last this long.  lol.  I really appropriate all of the hard work everyone has done.   There were some amazing entries throughout the contest including really off the wall ones.  But I thank you guys for having fun and making it worth while.   :D

 

Thanks again, and I can't wait for the final one.  Good luck!


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#4 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 12:37 PM

When I made the idea for Enemy of the Month, I didn't think it would last this long.  lol.  I really appropriate all of the hard work everyone has done.   There were some amazing entries throughout the contest including really off the wall ones.  But I thank you guys for having fun and making it worth while.   :D

 

Thanks again, and I can't wait for the final one.  Good luck!

 

There is a successor to this contest being planned. The reason why we are ending Enemy of the Month is that it becomes very difficult to even get 2 or 3 entries sometimes, especially if people feel they don't click with certain themes. The successor will be more inclusive to a wider appeal of tastes and interests. 


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#5 MegaX

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

I'm making a final boss entry right now. I bet you it will be a real show stopper! :lol: :lol: :lol:  The grand finale of all finales! :D :D :D



#6 Anthus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:54 PM

I might submit something with those alleged nipple-rubbing statues from my last SotW entry.

 

Yes, let's do that.



#7 SpacemanDan

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:31 AM

I've got something in the works for this. Hopefully I'll actually finish it in time, haha



#8 Eddy

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:54 AM

Maybe I'll get something for the last contest, we'll see if I have the time. I got something really stupid in mind, so lower your expectations :P



#9 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 11:22 AM

I should submit: Final Boss, The ZC Source Code. No-one can trump that idea, and you all bloody-well know it. :P

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 02 November 2017 - 11:23 AM.

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#10 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:31 PM

My apologies in-advance: This is a blatant double-post, but I'm doing it so that NJF sees a new response, as I am short on PM space.

One thing that I would suggest considering, is to put EotM 'on ice', until 2.54 (official) is out. I have added quite a lot to the enemy editor, to the point that editor-only npcs could compete with scripted npcs far more readily; and what is possible with npc scripting has expanded tenfold.

It might be worth a revisit once 2.54 is in Beta, and again, whenever we add real NPC scripts, which is still a 'hopeful' feature candidate.

Here is a brief summary of some of the new Enemy Editor features that would help this event:

You can now do all of the following:

  • Create npcs larger than 1x1. This is a game-changer for most users. You can set npc values such as TileWidth, TileHeight, hit and draw offsets (soon, more), from ZQuest without scripts.
  • Change npc weapon graphics. Changing weapon sounds is forthcoming.
  • Set defences for all weapon types, including each 'script' type, individually.
  • Set new defences: Double/Triple/Quadruple damage, aGive the NPC more HP, Trigger Screen secrets.
More stuff too, but those three are extremely powerful. The average user could put together a new boss enemy using only the editor.

I'm also planning some other very cool features, such as ice mechanics. (Clearly, pun intended.)
In the next few betas that may appear, with the ability to set an ice tile and cset for npcs that are frozen.

On the script front, I have added npcdata, which may seem trivial, but it is very powerful.

I'll admit that I want to see how the average user makes use of these new features, but surely they will spice things up enough to breath new life into EotM.

That said, I do still think that a 'Thing of the Month' contest would be fun, especialy in the interim. Perhaps digest all of this, and give some thought to reviving it when 2.54 is ready for mainstream use.

(On a quite positive note, the alphas as rock-solid, and stable, and I have been releasing them on a daily-build
schedule. If you want to try them, just ask on Discord.)

alpha 14, latest as of today, if you want to fondle it.

In 2.50.x, if you wanted to know the base HP of an enemy, or any of its default attributes, you would need to create a table (structured array) to store all of them, and you are required to hardcode them. Trust me, this is a pain in the arse!

In RPG.zh, I have a table for npc_data, and it is a size of [32768].

In 2.54, you can access the npc values (set from the Enemy Editor) without fuss.

Stuff such as the following, is now legal code:

for (int q = Screen->NumNPCs(); q > 0; q-- ){    npc n = Screen->LoadNPC(q);    npcdata nd = Game->LoadNPCData(n->ID);    n->HP = (Min(n->HP, nd->HP); //do not permit this npc to gain HP above its editor max}
Try and replicate that without npcdata (!!) and you will see the implications.

----------------

The tl;dr

With the new features coming out soon, user interest in EotM may revert from 'bleah' to 'Count me in!'.

The average user won't be shunted to the corner because they can't make an impressive boss.

Elemental themes become more interesting as you will be able to define 'elemental weapons' and elemental defences, purely from ZQuest, with no scripting needed.

Just tuppence of my thoughts as this stands. A six-month hiatus might be better than an outright cancellation, as 2.54 will at least be in beta this winter.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 02 November 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#11 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 07:03 AM

I believe the ZC Feature Showcase would certainly be the best way to promote the strengths of ZC 2.54.

 

The timing is actually pretty convenient. 



#12 Dimentio

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 07:44 AM

My 2 main fears with the feature showcase are that:

There's no competitiveness to submit, meaning that no user will submit any enemy that isn't scripted. Basically, there's no reason to submit anything that isn't scripted because the contest has effectively gone from "who can make the coolest enemy", to "show off something", and nobody wants to show off something anybody can make.

It will likely water down the contest, cause with a more vague focus it's mostly become a mini-expo, except once a month so it really lowers the impact of it. Why not just show off your stuff on the forums without having to share space with a bunch of other entries?



#13 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:00 AM

My 2 main fears with the feature showcase are that:

There's no competitiveness to submit, meaning that no user will submit any enemy that isn't scripted. Basically, there's no reason to submit anything that isn't scripted because the contest has effectively gone from "who can make the coolest enemy", to "show off something", and nobody wants to show off something anybody can make.

It will likely water down the contest, cause with a more vague focus it's mostly become a mini-expo, except once a month so it really lowers the impact of it. Why not just show off your stuff on the forums without having to share space with a bunch of other entries?

 

Polls will still exist based on professionalism, usefulness, creativeness and entertaining. Similar to the current polls of Enemy of the Month. People who are competitive can still use it as a measure if that's important to them. The only difference now is that the polls will be multiple choice so that the people voting doesn't have to specifically choose a winner, but vote who they feel most accurately represents these qualities. 

 

You're harping on the word "showcase". Very little is actually changing here other than the inclusion of more things than just enemies. There was a demand and an interest to have something that was like Enemy of the Month, but that isn't just enemy of the month, and I just felt "ZC Feature Showcase" is a much more attractive name than "Thing of the Month". Also removing the "of the month" title to it also makes it a little less disheartening for people when submissions are not reached by monthly deadline. I also just feel it's overused.

 

I decided on "ZC Feature Showcase" mainly because that's kind of what Enemy of the Month kind of already is.

 

"Why not just show your stuff on the forums without having to share space with a bunch of other entires?" because one of the reasons people submit is for the commentary. Not to toot my own horn, I'm just one of 4 commentators this thing had, and it's the commentary is one of the things that's made this contest unique and different from Screenshot of the Week. 

 

I got a feeling that you feel Enemy of the Month should have stayed exactly like the way it is, and the community is wrong for wanting it to be more inclusive. If that's how you feel, that's fine, but I'm just saying that there is a reason why changes are being made. 



#14 ywkls

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 06:27 PM

New enemy, old enemy, random enemy idea... there's a lot of room when it comes to final boss enemies!

 

I've done precisely one of my own and I've another planned for a future ZC quest. But... I'm not sure I want to do either of them.

If this is to truly be the swan song of EOTM; I want something special.

 

(Gears begin turning...)



#15 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 11:28 PM

I'm going to request that you name it 'Quest Feature Showcase'. not 'ZC Feature Contest', as the latter is misleading, and could very well be its own thing in the future.


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