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Pure Tileset Basic v2.5


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#16 Moonbread

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

You should continue with the name trend and just call it "Pure Tileset Update V2.5" instead. icon_frown.gif

That's actually all I pretty much had to say. I was going to ask the other night when you were going to post a thread on this, but then you already did. My only other gripe is how some of the items look, by which I don't really mean the ones you added, but how I've always hated the way some of the Pure items look. (Swords are the worst.)

#17 Theryan

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

^The problem with this is that naming it like the other updates make it seem like another update/expansion of the Pure Tileset series, when in reality he is updating an older version.

#18 ShadowTiger

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

The Dungeon Carving modes are always fun to work with. Sarcasm implied, I suppose. They're ... fun. So, Nick, the question is, do we want to do something like This, where the less used (And quite ugly) parts of the walls are left out? Or should they be complete, as being products of the Dungeon Carving Mode generator?

In the meantime, so you don't have to wait, here are some Floor Borders that I converted to Relational mode. I still have to do (And find. O.o ) those Egyptian style floor borders I did that go with the Fire Temple set. Dunno why they weren't included in the PTUX set if the walls were, but whatever. Doesn't matter.

Spoiler


#19 Kite

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:18 PM

I'd be fine with the less used and ugly parts of the wall being left out. I'm probably going to fill in those parts with push block combos like the newfirst test of dungeon carving did.

As far as the dungeon floor borders, I think what you have there is good. icon_smile.gif To be honest, I probably wouldn't include too many more since Pure Tileset Basic only has the 6 types of walls (I forgot about caves and houses). But I could use some house floor edges (preferably without the wooden floor beneath them) since the house tiles in general really need fleshing out now that I'm looking at them.

Thanks for working on this. I really do appreciate it. icon_smile.gif

#20 Kite

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

Minor progress update mostly to show that I'm still working on this. Nothing special to report, really. I haven't started on putting in ST's relational stuff yet.

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I house awful.

Houses in the original Pure Tileset were extremely neglected. In fact, the tiles and combos were not even complete in a few areas (there were no boss doors and the right facing wall wasn't set up). icon_frown.gif I've hopefully fixed that, but you'll have to do more than a minor edit if you want to grab houses that were made with Pure Tileset v2 since I moved some stuff around. But I don't think that will be a problem since you had to edit the house combos anyway if you wanted to use houses at all... and there really isn't that many house tiles.

I also changed all the doorways to have overhead combos and made the wall sandy tile space No Flying Enemies combos.

#21 tox_von

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

have you done 4 warp tiles side by side? one each for warp abcd this is really annoying with older tilesets doing this

#22 Kite

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

The short answer is no. This won't have every variation of warp for every combo warp.

However, if you use that favorite stairs combo on the bottom left and scroll to the combo page it is on...

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You can use layers and/or FFCs in order to place the different warps (the clear combos below or next to each label are the same type of warp, FFC types have priority over what is underneath them, and warp combos do not work on layers so you can place these combos then layer them over with the entrance you want). Alternatively, you can add/edit the combos yourself if you need them for a particular entrance and simply can't use FFCs or layers since there is plenty of room in the tileset for you to do so.

My main reasoning here is that there are way too many possible entrances for me to do this for everything without cluttering the tileset with stuff people are likely to scroll past and rarely use. Also, not everyone uses every single entrance and I can't properly anticipate that. So I feel it's better to leave it up to the discretion of the person working with the tileset which entrances they want to add/use. It only takes a few seconds to copy a combo, paste it, and change the type if you don't want to bother with the workarounds that I'm going to describe in more detail in the release. icon_shrug.gif

#23 tox_von

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:29 PM

are you planning on getting rid of duplicate dungeon stuff it seems like new walls tiles could be added if this was done.


also lockblocks need to have the next combo beside them to function this isnt set up in the current pure.

Edited by tox_von, 04 March 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#24 Kite

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE(tox_von @ Mar 4 2013, 07:29 PM) View Post

are you planning on getting rid of duplicate dungeon stuff it seems like new walls tiles could be added if this was done.
also lockblocks need to have the next combo beside them to function this isnt set up in the current pure.

I already fixed lock blocks, but thanks for reminding me. icon_smile.gif

As for that first thing...

QUOTE(Nick @ OP)
This continuation intends to capitalize on one of Pure Tileset's fundamentals: keeping things simple and easy to use. To be more specific, the surface isn't going to vary much from Pure Tileset v2. There will only be minor combo re-organizations (though people will have to press right-shift and the plus button at least 4 times on every overworld screen if they want to re-use overworld screens from v2), there is no intention of including every possible tile and combo someone might want to use, and there will be plenty of room to add your own graphics. Admittedly, this is partially being done out of laziness. There is no way I'd have the patience to modify a tileset that includes everything and the kitchen sink like PTUX or the DoR Tileset. But I also just like the flow of version 2 and don't want to disrupt that too much.


So the duplicate combos will probably be staying. I'm not going to lie: I'm not a tileset designer. I can comfortably add to what is there and re-arrange and add some minor things (such as making lock blocks functional, which required moving around several dungeon combos to make the room without changing much), fill in all the 2.50 stuff, fix old tileset bugs, and add scripts. However, I cannot create a brand new tileset layout to accommodate the lack of what Wild Bill intentionally added (mostly to make working with dungeons faster since the dungeon materials are always right next to each other instead of requiring large amounts of scrolling). I just don't have the time since I was intending for this to be a side project that lasts for a month at most (not counting future updates). icon_shrug.gif

If someone really wants a tileset with all the possible wall sets they can find, all the combos, and such, they should probably work on updating PTUX or the DoR Tileset. I wouldn't even mind if they took the work from this set (once it's released) as a stepping stone to simplify the process so long as proper credits are given to everyone. icon_shrug.gif

Anyway, another minor progress update:

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I've tweaked the active subscreen a bit more and I finally set up the passive subscreen. It could still use some work (fonts, positioning, and such), but it's getting there. icon_shrug.gif

#25 SpacemanDan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

This is looking friggen fantastic! icon_biggrin.gif It's really awesome to see a tileset ready for use with 2.5's features right out of the box. (Aside from the default set) Thanks for putting something like this together! I'm sure many will find it really helpful and handy. icon_smile.gif

#26 Kite

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

More progress.

I've started working on the scripts that will be included with the tileset. So far, I've just made the basic framework and started importing a few ghost.zh enemies. I don't plan on including too many of those, though. icon_shrug.gif

My next order of business after the ghost.zh enemies is fixing up a few "custom" combos.

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I've re-arranged the cave and dungeon combos a tiny bit in order to take advantage of the various Next combos. I also did something on the spur of the moment that I might end up switching back later on: I changed the chests to use 8-bit colors and gave them the water/lava CSet reds and blues. Should I keep that change?

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I also re-arranged the overworld combos a tiny bit. As before, I did this to support more of the Next combos. But I also added some lock blocks and a few decoration combos that I was kind of missing from PTUX to fill in the empty space left behind.

As a sidenote, I know that screen is kind of ugly. I've been using it to test the new enemies and combos, so I needed a lot of space. icon_frown.gif

I'm shooting to have a beta out by March 13th, assuming nothing happens to delay that. I still need those Link charging sprites and possibly a new default overworld palette, though.

#27 Yapollo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

Well, as much as I would love to offer constructive feedback I recognize that:

a) You have all already made good points
b) You designers are doing a great job.

What I will say is that the idea of sprucing up Pure is a brilliant idea. Again, many of you have made good valid points already. However, to me, I fell that updating Pure will give newcomers a solid start in development. Although I recognize that I am hardly a valid comparison for the vast majority of this site (i.e anyone else), I would like to say that my first memorable experiences messing with 1.90 were swapping out the tileset with BS and The Revenge II sets and seeing how the pieces worked. Even after I stabilized my hardware and graduated to 1.92 and, soon after, 2.10 I still spent the vast majority of time looking through the many tilesets. I learned most of my limited ZC skills by comparing the combos and palettes. In fact, I am very much in favor of the new, modern classic 2.5 set for it is equally as helpful as the tutorials (though you guys' forum advice still beats any advice I have found in the engine yet icon_smile.gif (and I know my friends using the software have learned a lot from it).

In essence, I feel that as ZC 2.5, being fully stable now, could use an updated set to help teach newcomers about balancing the graphics and how things like the sprites, flags and combos work. In addition, what better tileset than Pure, which is undeniably one of the most influential and best-looking tilesets to be created. To be fair, there are many other good sets (I am a huge DoR and MZC fan), but simply look at the large number of quests and tilesets either inspired or derived from Mr. Z's set. Now that I have been bold enough to say this, I am of course ready to meet the harsh critiques of the internet at large and the wiser PureZC community.

In any case, I rambled again :\

The point is: i like the idea and I like the changes added. Keep up the good work. icon_thumbsup.gif

#28 Kite

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:40 PM

Thanks for the comments and support. icon_smile.gif I'm hoping that this meets at least some of the expectations that are being put on it, but I guess the beta will determine that. I've said it before, but tileset creation and manipulation really isn't my strong area. icon_razz.gif

I decided to start messing with palettes. I'm wondering how this looks and if there are things about it I could (attempt to) change:

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This is a mixture of "OW - Springtime" from Descendant Tileset and "OW - Late Spring" from the DoR Tileset. Don't be afraid to tell me this is worse than the default Pure palette since I pretty much mashed two palettes from different tilesets together. icon_shrug.gif

#29 Moonbread

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

I'm not really fond of it. The mountains are dark whereas the greens and reds are pretty bright (the tall grass looks like it has the consistency of jello), and there's a lot of clashing between what's bright and what's dark. I would work on making everything fit with the current greens as they are, lightening the browns and maybe putting the two orange colors closer together.

I might try my own hand at making some palettes, maybe tomorrow.

#30 Kite

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:11 AM

That's pretty fair and to be honest I agree with it after I've stared between the default palette and what I put together for a bit. The latter hurts my eyes staring at it whereas I don't get the same effect staring at the default palette. I'll try to make things clash less since I really don't want my eyes to hurt looking at it.

If you can make some palettes, that would be appreciated. icon_smile.gif

Edit: I did some edits and ended up with this:

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I think this is better than it was before, but if there are anymore things I could tweak or if this is absolutely terrible to anyone else, let me know.

Edited by Nick, 08 March 2013 - 01:33 AM.



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