12 replies to this topic

[The Satellite]

It's not actually. I've tricked you all. Sure it's more linear than and not as good as the previous Prime games, but it's got that aesthetic and mood and atmosphere I love about the Prime games so it's pretty alright in my book.

[Ben]

It's a solid game, it's just that it is more on rails, there's loading screens where the prior games didn't really have them very much, and some of the bosses take WAY too long to bring down. Also the sound the plasma beam makes when it's charged is horrible and gives me a headache. In terms of atmosphere, though, it still feels pretty Metroidy. The music strays a bit too much from the Prime 1/2 styles for my taste, but it's still good. The control scheme worked remarkably well.

 

More of a concern nowadays, it doesn't lend itself very well to randomization due to the wide array of abilities required by even the early areas such as the grapple lasso, grapple beam, bombs, ice missiles, etc. Prime 2's spoked-wheel centralized world layout results in a fantastic randomizer.

[Demonlink]

I actually loved Prime 3 better than the other two previous entries. Please don't hate me.

[Norzan]

I actually prefer it over Prime 2. Prime 1 is still the best one though.

[The Satellite]

Actually kind of curious to hear your reasoning for liking it more than Prime 2, Norzan, as well as why it's your favorite, Demonlink. 

 

I mean, no one needs to have any real reason for liking something more than another thing, just always interested in hearing other perspectives.

[Demonlink]

I think it was for the gameplay, I mean, free aim with the Wii controls just felt new at the time. The story also had me hooked instantly. I loved the theme about "corruption" and just how Dark Samus made the other hunters do her bidding and turn them against Samus.

However, I agree the only minor flaw was that it felt more linear than the previous entries, and the gunship was slightly underused; a few space battles would've been fun to see given you traveled to different areas of each planet.

Other than that, it's a solid 10 in my book.

[Norzan]

Prime 3 not having the terrible ammo system of Prime 2 and nowhere near the same amount of backtracking puts it above Prime 2 easily to me.

 

The only thing the beam ammo system in Prime 2 did for me was make me barely use the light and dark beams and i sure as shit didn't use the annihilator beam. You already have to manage missile and power bomb ammo, your regular beams didn't need to have ammo. None of the games before and i believe the games after had ammo for the secondary beams, so i don't know why they did it here.

 

The backtracking is too much even for Metroid standards. The amount of times you see that screen of Samus going from one world to the other is far too much, specially on your first playthrough. This game basically needed the Mirror from A Link to the Past to make travelling between worlds much quicker (don't know if that would be feasible though given the tech the game was in).

 

Some of the bosses are just flat out bullshit. The Boost Guardian and Spider Guardian are just obnoxious. Yeah, the latter gets easier in the Wii version, with it having the spring ball, but it's still not a very stimulating boss fight. Some Prime 3's bosses are also not very entertaining, but none irritated me to the point those two Prime 2 bosses did.

 

The thing with Prime 1 and 2 is that they hide their linearity much better than Prime 3, hence it why seems Prime 3 is more linear when it's not all that much linear (it still is though). Taking sequence breaking out of the equation. Prime 1 and 2 are pretty linear, what with having to get specific items to reach certain areas and that usually means having to get them in a specific order.

 

Point here is that i can jump in into Prime 1 and 3 with no problems because there's really no area or boss in the game that makes me groan due to the thought of having to eventually deal with it when i get to it. While there's quite a bit of it in Prime 2 and that means that game is part of the list of games where i have to be in a certain mindset in order to play.

Edited by Norzan, 08 November 2021 - 12:57 PM.

[The Satellite]

I didn't mind the backtracking as much in Prime 2 since, as Ben said, its hub design is decently conducive towards getting around the various worlds, along with a few decent connectors between each area as well. If anything the backtracking in Prime 3 was most annoying due to its linear design structure, making it take longer than it needed to just to get from one area to another if you had a specific path you wanted to go. The landing pads tried to mitigate this, but going through multiple menus (with motion pointing) to move from one spot on a planet to another is a lot more involved and tedious than just stepping on an elevator.

 

That's really it honestly, Prime 3's areas are a lot more boxed in and hallway-like as opposed to the more open areas in Prime 1 and 2 with several branching pathways (moreso the first game), making it feel more open and spacious, and less tedious to navigate overall. It's why I hope Prime 4 takes more cues from the original.
 

None of the games before and i believe the games after had ammo for the secondary beams, so i don't know why they did it here.

I would've said you were right, but now that I've started playing Hunters: They do it in that game too. I've only got one so far but they all seem to share the same "universal ammo" pool. They do seem to be more like secondary weapons than beams, for what it's worth.

 

Other thing in regards to the Prime 2 beam ammo: Once you know that you can blast containers with a beam to get the opposite beam's ammo, keeping a healthy amount of ammo isn't as big a deal, although I suppose your mileage may vary. Annihilator has a chance to drop both, as well. I would prefer no ammo at all but in the end I didn't find it as big a deal as it could've been when I learned how to mitigate it.
 

However, I agree the only minor flaw was that it felt more linear than the previous entries, and the gunship was slightly underused; a few space battles would've been fun to see given you traveled to different areas of each planet.

I'd read that apparently these were actually a thing, and that's what the ship missile expansions were for since they're kind of 100% useless in the final game. An intriguing concept, but admittedly I think it would just get in the way of the on-foot explorative action gameplay that I prefer in these games. While I'm alright with some plot in Metroid games (Fusion, Dread, and Prime 3 of course were solid in this field), I'd rather it not interrupt the gameplay more often or suddenly than it needs to.

[Norzan]

I didn't mind the backtracking as much in Prime 2 since, as Ben said, its hub design is decently conducive towards getting around the various worlds, along with a few decent connectors between each area as well. If anything the backtracking in Prime 3 was most annoying due to its linear design structure, making it take longer than it needed to just to get from one area to another if you had a specific path you wanted to go. The landing pads tried to mitigate this, but going through multiple menus (with motion pointing) to move from one spot on a planet to another is a lot more involved and tedious than just stepping on an elevator.

 

That's really it honestly, Prime 3's areas are a lot more boxed in and hallway-like as opposed to the more open areas in Prime 1 and 2 with several branching pathways (moreso the first game), making it feel more open and spacious, and less tedious to navigate overall. It's why I hope Prime 4 takes more cues from the original.

Plenty of areas in Prime 2 are boxed in and hallway-like, Prime 3 wasn't really more like that much at all. The fact that Prime 2 is always my longest playthrough in the Prime series is a testament how they went overboard with the backtracking because the game isn't really all bigger than Prime 1, but because you have to go back and forth so much increases playtime considerably. The fact that you have basically two whole worlds where you have to scavenge for upgrades, further increases backtracking. Of course having the worst version of the "you need to find x amount of things to reach the final boss" didn't helped.

 

Did Prime 3 even had backtracking, or at the worst extensive backtracking? Its worlds being smaller versions of the bigger worlds in the first two Prime games meant you pretty much discover everything in your first runthrough. At best you come back for like two or three upgrades when you get a new item in another planet, but outside of that you discover most of each planet in your first time there. Meanwhile Prime 2 hides a bunch of stuff in areas where you don't have the appropriate item to get them when you notice they are there, and that means having to remember that those are there and you need a specific item to get them. Since that happens plenty of times, by the time you do get the item to get those upgrades you most likely forgot where they were. This can happen in Prime 3, but because the planets are separate from each other, i find it easier to remember where the upgrades are.

 

 

I would prefer no ammo at all but in the end I didn't find it as big a deal as it could've been when I learned how to mitigate it.

I'm of the opinion that a system isn't very good if i have to mitigate it.

 

I know i'm giving shit to Prime 2, but i still like it a lot. It's just i have to jump quite a few hurdles in order to play it, which is something that doesn't happen with most Metroid games for me. And yes, i hope Prime 4 takes inspiration much more from Prime 1 since that's the one i believe did the whole conversion from 2D to 3D the best.

 

Edited by Norzan, 09 November 2021 - 12:36 PM.

[Anthus]

I replayed all three of them about a year ago, and I ended up liking Prime 3 a lot more than I remembered. I'm not a fan of the linearity, but the actual worlds are visually really cool for a Wii game. Music is also some of the best. And as much as I used to hate motion controls, I have to admit it works really well in Prime 3. I miss switchable beams, but doing so with the pointer is not something I look forward to doing (more on this later). It's cool to see the screw attack in 3D, but it is very situational, and not really that practical to use, but hey, you can still screw attack into enemies.

 

My personal order is, Prime 1 > Prime 2 > Prime 3... Oh hey that's the release order. The story, and almost hallway like design kinda hurts Prime 3 a lot still, but I think I like everything but the level design more than Prime 2. Prime 1 is my favorite because of how closely it sticks to Super Metroid, which I understand can be a downside for some.

 

I'd happily play them all again if they ported them to Switch tbh. As long as they offer button controls as well, because switching beams and visors with the pointer in the Wii trilogy was a complete drag. There's more buttons now so surely it won't be a problem... right? RIGHT?! They've never provided worse controls in a port before, right?

 

(edit: correction, I know Prime 2 had the screw attack as well, but I made this post all fast and shit.)

[Norzan]

Yeah, the Screw Attack kind of sucks in the 3D games while in the 2D games is amazing. Guess it's just an ability that doesn't translate well to 3D.

[Nicholas Steel]

None of the games before and i believe the games after had ammo for the secondary beams, so i don't know why they did it here.

because they made the beams very over powered and gave them both to you very early in to the game.
 

Plenty of areas in Prime 2 are boxed in and hallway-like, Prime 3 wasn't really more like that much at all. The fact that Prime 2 is always my longest playthrough in the Prime series is a testament how they went overboard with the backtracking because the game isn't really all bigger than Prime 1, but because you have to go back and forth so much increases playtime considerably. The fact that you have basically two whole worlds where you have to scavenge for upgrades, further increases backtracking. Of course having the worst version of the "you need to find x amount of things to reach the final boss" didn't helped.
 
Did Prime 3 even had backtracking, or at the worst extensive backtracking? Its worlds being smaller versions of the bigger worlds in the first two Prime games meant you pretty much discover everything in your first runthrough. At best you come back for like two or three upgrades when you get a new item in another planet, but outside of that you discover most of each planet in your first time there. Meanwhile Prime 2 hides a bunch of stuff in areas where you don't have the appropriate item to get them when you notice they are there, and that means having to remember that those are there and you need a specific item to get them. Since that happens plenty of times, by the time you do get the item to get those upgrades you most likely forgot where they were. This can happen in Prime 3, but because the planets are separate from each other, i find it easier to remember where the upgrades are.

Prime 1 allows you to obtain Keys/Artifacts for the final boss fight during the normal course of gameplay.
Prime 2 Only allows you to obtain Keys for the final fight after a certain late game event has occurred (Collect item dropped by Power Bomb Guardian).
Prime 3 allows you to obtain keys/Power Cells for the final boss fight during the normal course of gameplay.
 

I replayed all three of them about a year ago, and I ended up liking Prime 3 a lot more than I remembered. I'm not a fan of the linearity, but the actual worlds are visually really cool for a Wii game. Music is also some of the best. And as much as I used to hate motion controls, I have to admit it works really well in Prime 3. I miss switchable beams, but doing so with the pointer is not something I look forward to doing (more on this later). It's cool to see the screw attack in 3D, but it is very situational, and not really that practical to use, but hey, you can still screw attack into enemies.

My personal order is, Prime 1 > Prime 2 > Prime 3... Oh hey that's the release order. The story, and almost hallway like design kinda hurts Prime 3 a lot still, but I think I like everything but the level design more than Prime 2. Prime 1 is my favorite because of how closely it sticks to Super Metroid, which I understand can be a downside for some.

I'd happily play them all again if they ported them to Switch tbh. As long as they offer button controls as well, because switching beams and visors with the pointer in the Wii trilogy was a complete drag. There's more buttons now so surely it won't be a problem... right? RIGHT?! They've never provided worse controls in a port before, right?

(edit: correction, I know Prime 2 had the screw attack as well, but I made this post all fast and shit.)

Metroid Prime 1 prolly has the most logical placements of ability upgrades, and the best supporting lore for why they are at those locations.

Prime 2 suffers from weird backtracking to singular rooms to get specific items with you returning the way you came after getting it, Temple Grounds music is bad and the Space Pirates barely play a role outside of forced harassment from possessed Pirate Commandos.

Prime 3 has the worst/most simplified Beam weapon system which simplified combat, areas/worlds completely segregated from each other (no interconnected gameplay) and maybe not enough optional stuff to find before each key plot point making it feel linear/lacking in stuff to do as you progress and is less forgiving for those that need everything they can get before a forced/boss fight.

Also the Wii, Wii U and Switch were perfect opportunities for Nintendo to add dual-analogue stick support to the Prime games, I doubt they will for the Switch since they've already missed 2 great opportunities but it would be awesome to play them like a normal FPS game.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 22 November 2021 - 05:28 AM.

[The Satellite]

Prime 2 ... the Space Pirates barely play a role outside of forced harassment from possessed Pirate Commandos.

Other than said forced Commando encounters, I didn't mind this. It's a good way of escalating the Ing threat level, that even the Pirates are dwarfed by how dangerous they are. Even the Federation soldiers were easily wiped out. Will admit I wish they did more with Ing-possessed Metroids as a result, Metroids barely factor into the gameplay at all*, but I do wonder how much of that was due to rushed development.

 

*One could also argue this isn't a bad thing either and it's refreshing to not have Metroids front-and-center like they are in so many other games in the series.