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Isle of Rebirth 2 Is Never Going to Happen


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#16 Demonlink

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:42 PM

  • - What aspects of the overworld did you like the most? Why?
  • I really enjoyed the variety of landscapes that you had, and it was pretty open right up from the start. That's a good way to begin from.
  • - What aspects of the overworld did you like the least? Why?
  • Like some have mentioned, the repetitive design on each screen. However, I want to add that you should try to come up with custom palettes as well, to give each area a bit more of atmosphere. Lastly, but this is a bit personal, I'd prefer you go for a different map layout than the classic 16x8 overworld. On the project that I'm working on/off, I'm using BS styled minimaps for each area, and I'm going for about 9 different landscapes in my case... But still, that's more of a personal opinion.
  • - What aspects of the dungeons did you like the most? Why?
  • That you made HUGE dungeons, that's what I liked most. The large labyrinth feel of each one, it really made me scratch my head every once and a while; especially from Level 5 onward.
  • - What aspects of the dungeons did you like the least? Why?
  • Hmmm, I can't remember anything picky I had to criticize from your dungeon design, even if some cases were frustrating, I still enjoyed them in the end. If I had to mention something, it would be the repetitive use of some puzzles in later dungeons (shooting an arrow to light a torch, random block puzzles...). But hey, you can only come up with so much unique puzzles, so this isn't a real issue from my view.
  • - What was your favorite dungeon?
  • I can't really say I have one in particular, so I'll mention three, Starlight Temple, the  Chapel (Level 4?) and the Sunken Basin. These were the ones that most appealed to me, each one executing a unique idea and theme. But of the three... it's a close up between Level 4 and 12. 
  • - What was your least favorite dungeon?
  • Prismatic Gate and Blighted Abyss. Prismatic Gate because of its maze design and constant backtracking. Blighted Abyss because hell no.
  • - What did you think of the enemy and boss design? Favorite/Least favorites?
  • I loved the inclusion you had of some past Zelda game enemies (like the ALttP Bomber, an authentic GB Lynel, and others I can't remember at the moment). Enemies were ok for me, except those damn death knights in the Abyss (and I loved the Golems you put there as well).

    As for bosses, all of them were really something... except Level 1's boss. That was almost like a troll boss. The ones I was really impressed by, were the Stone Arrghus, the Medusa from Level 11 I think, the Chapel's Phantom and Level 2's Moldorm Prime. Those were my favorites for their design and battle.
  • - How was the overall presentation of each area? Was the atmosphere engaging?
  • Dungeon wise, no criticism there. Overworld... that's another story. Although you tried to make each area interesting, the palettes didn't really help there. Aside from the fact that you used 2 different palettes, you used CSet transitioning more. Like I mentioned above, try creating a different palette for each of your areas, trust me, it helps boost the atmosphere you're going for. This, and the screen designing as well, seconding what Matthew said about the visual design.
  • - What difficulty did you prefer to play on?
  • Normal I think it was. But i downgraded to Easy when I tackled the Abyss (although I later learned that it wouldn't change a thing there...)
  • - What did you think of the story?
  • (Cut me some slack on this one, it's been a long time since I played it). Overall, it was cliché with the typical Princess kidnapping. As for Vensor... a little more backstory on him would have helped. Who is he? What dimension is he trying to go back towards? Why was he expelled from it? You also mentioned a Wizzrobe clan he formed part of. What is the purpose of this clan? Are they good or work towards their own needs? Who are the fairies from the heavens? How was Remdra before the Gleeok attacks? What about Remdra Castle)
  • - Is the quest too long to feasibly be considered replayable?
  • In a short while, yes, it's a big quest that I completed in about 25 to 30 hours if I remember correctly. I'd give it a second go, but that's after a few months pass of course. And still, I'll think of it when that time passes.
  • - Do you require the addition of new content to replay a quest you've already finished or is the same experience a second time still worthwhile?
  • In this case, a second go wouldn't hurt. If new content was added, that's just more points for you. Either is okay for me.
  • - Rank the following in importance for you in enjoying a quest: Story, Combat, Exploration, and Puzzle/Problem Solving.
  • Exploration is key for a good quest. Give them an open world to explore, and non linearity also helps. Puzzle/Problem solving as well, this having more importance in dungeon carving. This is what makes a Zelda game, a Zelda game. Combat... a good challenge is always appreciated, have a good balance between too easy and straight to the Highway to Hell. Lastly, Story. Hmmm, NJF once told me stories are of less importance to a game, and I think he's right. While it adds a few good touches to a game, it's the less thing needed to be worried about. Gameplay > Story.

And that's it. Hopefully helps in something. :)


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#17 Chris

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:06 PM

  • - Rank the following in importance for you in enjoying a quest: Story, Combat, Exploration, and Puzzle/Problem Solving.

Overworld/Dungeons

I think the issue is simply the EZGBZ-tileset: It's efficent and meant for small screens. The main problems are too big maps (a logical result with too big screens) and sometimes lacking details (another logical result of stretching a simple screen). It's not like you can simply reduce two screens into one and more details don't help with being oversized. It's still very good (see what others said). I also wonder how making dungeons more OW-like with more interactions with the actual OW would work out.

 

Difficulty

I played the normal mode (maybe one time easier, overall a great difficulty though) and cause I didn't like too high armor (a tank without thrill...) but couldn't beat one of the bosses otherwise, I stopped last time. More offense would be preferable (to not let it drag on forever while you are near immortal), but what I really would have liked are upgraded potions. Like for each easier difficulty the potion you can buy get's an extra charge, that way you could have kept the difficulty/thrill to a certain degree and potions have the limitation that they are used up at some point, you need to activate them in time and they cost money.

 

Story

I still haven't finished it. Talking to NPCs can be tiresome and what I have seen so far of the main story is nice but doesn't feel very zeldaish.

 

Replayability

That it has overlength sometimes (eg dungeons) and the lack of differing content are clearly big points against replayability. Additions like Russ mentioned them can help, but simply adding more content does not help. Wanting to play the new content and forcing yourself to replay isn't the same as wanting to replay the quest.

 

Personal Preferences

Difficult to say, it all depends. Story is a nice bonus, but it isn't easy with ZC. Even the official 2D games aren't very great with it. For ZC-quests it's often either a somewhat weak story (eg Hero of Dreams) or a nice story that doesn't feel too important for the actual game and you could just cut it out. The closest to a good story that draws you in are Aevin's quests I think. Combat is for me difficulty, otherwise it goes more in the direction of problem solving. I like Zelda quests easy as they don't exactly focus on combat - excluding bosses of course. Still, I need a certain challenge at least. Exploration, Puzzles and Problem Solving are most important for me, but based on quality, not quantity.


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#18 a30502355

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:12 PM

  • - What aspects of the overworld did you like the most? Why?
  • I like the open world feel you have at the beginning, you can do a lot of exploring before entering level 1. I also really like the side quests around the overworld, it makes the quest more lively. The simplistic structure of the overworld really fits the gameboy theme, which goes along well with the enemies in that said screen as well. 
  • - What aspects of the overworld did you like the least? Why?
  • Like many others, I feel like the visual presentation of the overworld is a bit lackluster. I think the colors of South Remdra is fine despite the Cset, and I understand why you did it that way for your spacebar map. But the colors of North Remdra could be a bit more diverse and I'm not too fond of the snow area where the snow is just a flat white color with no textures. 
  • - What aspects of the dungeons did you like the most? Why?
  • The best part about IOR's dungeons is the theme. It could be gameplay themes like level 11's light puzzles or level 12's day / night gimmick. But I also appreciate visual themes like level 4's eerie atmosphere, and the fact that level 2 really makes you feel like you're in some dirty swamp area. Almost all the dungeon palettes look very nice and you know how to expand the visual representation of the dungeons outside of the gameboy tileset. 
  • - What aspects of the dungeons did you like the least? Why?
  • I'm not a big fan of your puzzles. While some of them do work like level 11. I feel like most of your puzzles are there just for the sake of being there. Especially when it comes to your block puzzles. But who am I to judge? I suck at making puzzles, too.
  • - What was your favorite dungeon?
  • Level 4: Unhallowed Chapel. I really like the theme you have, the fact that you meet the boss early on the dungeon and have to escape from him is a very neat idea implemented into ZC. I also think the EZGBZ tileset is made for dungeon themes like this, the atmosphere is perfect in this dungeon.
  • - What was your least favorite dungeon?
  • Level 5: Frozen Enclave. It's one of the few levels where I felt that the palette is underwhelming. The other one being Level 8. But what makes me like level 5 a little less is the puzzles and the overall design structure. The puzzles feel pretty forced, whenever I come across a puzzle here, it's dreadful, not exciting. Add that with a slow ice theme on a large dungeon and it's not very good. 
  • - What did you think of the enemy and boss design? Favorite/Least favorites?
  • Moosh is an amazing scripter, and the same can be said for the boss designs. I think all the bosses really shows Zscripting power. But there were some ones I didn't enjoy. Level 1's boss was too underwhelming, and level 2's boss has a lot of unpredictable attacks, which makes it hard for you to dodge it. But all the other bosses onwards provided fair fights as far as I can tell. I really like level 3's boss, despite the fact that you can cheese him with bombs.
  • - How was the overall presentation of each area? Was the atmosphere engaging?
  • Dungeons definitely have the atmosphere, even the ones I disliked. But North Remdra needs more work, it needs more colors.
  • - What difficulty did you prefer to play on?
  • Normal because I'm a scrub.
  • - What did you think of the story?
  • Good story honestly, I wouldn't mind if it's just save the princess type of story. But you added upon it, gave the story a villain with more different motives, and that's what makes this quest unique from the rest. I also feel like the setting is also a big part in story, that said I like that this quest doesn't simply take place in Hyrule. 
  • - Is the quest too long to feasibly be considered replayable?
  • I don't think the problem of this quest is its length. I think the biggest factor that hurts this quest's playability is the "annoying part" Every quest has those parts, so it's not just a IOR problem. It's amazing if a quest is enjoyable in all places, but it's pretty hard to do that. In my case I wouldn't be looking forward to play level 5 or 8 whenever I play this quest again, despite all the good times in the quest I want to relive. 
  • - Do you require the addition of new content to replay a quest you've already finished or is the same experience a second time still worthwhile?
  • Adding new content is always nice, and it can be a big reason for many people to replay a quest again. But in the end it all comes down to the person's motivation to play the quest again. 
  • - Rank the following in importance for you in enjoying a quest: Story, Combat, Exploration, and Puzzle/Problem Solving.
  • Exploration = Combat >> Story > Puzzles
  • But take these with a grain of salt, I'm an outlier when it comes to ZC taste. Or as one might say, I have shit taste.

Overall, Isle of Rebirth is a very solid quest, despite the problems with the overworld and some dungeons. The quest is still by far the most impressive gameboy style classic quest I have come across upon. There's numerous inspiration you can pull from this quest, and I've known many quest creators who had a fair share on some of your inspirations, including me. I'd say the amount of effort and heart put onto this quest is already a 5/5. Could it be improved upon? Yes, but not all quests are perfect, expect some bad parts on your next quest, too. But that's fine as long as the good outweigh it. Making a large quest without a stain is near impossible to do. But as long as you make the player happy and satisfied at the end, that's all that matters, and that isn't too difficult to do. 

 

Looking forward to your next project Evan. But what about your Inverse Mirror project? That project looks very good, and I would like to hear more about it.


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#19 Dimentio

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 06:07 PM

  • Moosh is an amazing scripter, and the same can be said for the boss designs.

IIRC Evan made a good deal of the bosses for the quest himself (such as Moldorm Prime, the Venser Fights, the Lumen fights, Tartaros, etc). Might need confirmation on that though.


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#20 Russ

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 09:01 PM

IIRC Evan made a good deal of the bosses for the quest himself (such as Moldorm Prime, the Venser Fights, the Lumen fights, Tartaros, etc). Might need confirmation on that though.

Yes and no. Moosh made the first Venser and Lumen fights (the ones in level 7 and 9). Evan edited those for the second fights (level 9 and 12). Final Venser's first phase was Evan, second was Dan. Moldorm Prime was indeed Evan; it was one of the final bosses made, after Evan learned how to script. Actually while I'm at it, let's just list out who made all the bosses:

Moosh: Crabalt, Goron, Frostknuckle, Venser 1, Gleeok, Lumen 1
Evan: Moldorm Prime, Scourge, Venser 2, Lumen 2, Krampus Sasic, Tartaros
SpacemanDan: Mothula, Meta Arghus, Final Venser
LinkTheMaster: Medusa
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#21 Evan20000

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 05:45 AM

Russ is correct. I also made minor edits to Lumen 1, Venser 1 and decent sized edits for Venser 3 (getting the background to change colors/increase in intensity with the fight was all my doing), but those hardly count compared to the work the original authors put in.
 
 
 

But what about your Inverse Mirror project? That project looks very good, and I would like to hear more about it.

Inverse Mirror is -technically- almost done, but I'm at that weird point where I look back on the bits I made, hate a lot of it, want to polish and that tends to start a feedback loop. The reason I'm more or less putting it on the backburner for now is to 1. Let Team do what he wants with his RPG-maker stuff for a bit since that's where the bulk of his focus is right now and 2. Come back to it later with a fresher perspective after trying something radically different.


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