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Zodiac, Story of the Guardian


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#16 Moosh

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:59 PM

Okay, it appears it was changed in the second version you sent out. Is it safe to update, though? Did the update add any global variables?

 

Edit: In the rematch with Iron, something very strange happened. I shot him, he disappeared, his health bar appeared to go way into the negatives, and the battle abruptly ended. It all happened too quickly for me to get a screenshot of it, unfortunately. This is still in the old build by the way.


Edited by Moosh, 04 June 2014 - 05:19 PM.


#17 C-Dawg

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:57 PM

Here's a new update.

 

http://www.solidfile...b8/ZodiacUpdate(6-4-14).qst

 

In this version, I continued the plot up through Leo, destroying the computer and then recovering the Comsat where your allies drop it off.  This opens the way to Taurus, but I havn't continued plot there, yet.  I finally implemented the nine-level life tank system completely.  Also coded up the comsat to display Screen->Next data for switches, but havn't finished setting up all the rooms to use it, yet.  

 

The only problem I know that you will have if you switch over to a new version without a new save file is that the script that makes your Zodiac weapons work won't activate properly absent a new game.  If you havn't come across it yet; each Zodiac area has a boss, who is guarding a powerful upgrade to your primary weapon.  In your version you potentially have access to the Aquarius Bubble, Scorpio Sting, and Aries Saber.



#18 Moosh

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:03 PM

Well I've managed to royally screw up my save file. I accidentally stumbled upon what I imagine was a test warp and ended up in one of the flying levels. I tried to save warp my way back out and indeed I was able to get back to where I was, but now my jump is gone. I've messed around in the cheat menu trying to find it again with no luck. Any idea what item I need to give myself so I can jump again?

 

Edit: Updated the quest and the jump issue magically fixed itself. Dunno what happened there.

 

Edit2: Jumping issue was caused by cheat menu which I used to take away the flying level items. Good job ZC.


Edited by Moosh, 04 June 2014 - 06:10 PM.


#19 C-Dawg

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:10 PM

Yeah, I have not finished linking all of the corridors correctly, even though most of them have content.  If it's a bad warp somewhere in the early areas that is NOT a corridor, I need to know about it so I can fix it.  

 

Your Jump should never "turn off."  Every single sideview screen has FFC 1 set with the Jump script.  It isn't item based, and I'm not sure how it could be turned off.
 

RESPONSE TO EDIT: Yeah, I have no idea.  But like I said, it's all FFC based, not even carryover-based.  If you're on a sideview screen, you should have a jump script running.

 

I'd update your quest file anyway, you can go four or five times farther on the newest version.

 

EDIT 2 - Oh, and to elaborate further, the Zodiac weapons work based on FFCs 29 - 31 behaving themselves.  They are FFC carryover combos set on key screens.  But if you die and continue in the worng place... whoops - no weapons.  I fixed this with a script.  But the script doesn't work unless you start a new save.


Edited by C-Dawg, 04 June 2014 - 06:14 PM.


#20 Moosh

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:31 PM

I looked in the file in ZQuest and the strange warp is gone. It was on 4:57.

 

zelda086_zps115e6c48.png

 

In this spot (4:75) I got stuck because I was unable to jump for some reason. Also the screen to the left has Enemies->Secret checked so killing all the enemies closes the hatch and releases the item.

 

Edit: And another strange happening to report. I killed the boss on screen 17:79 and upon killing it was warped somewhere else entirely (17:4F I think).


Edited by Moosh, 04 June 2014 - 06:45 PM.


#21 C-Dawg

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

I'm on it. Keep bugs comin.

 

Uploaded a picture of the full Cancer map as it sits today.  Might help you find a way around, and uncover the Cancer Charge once you get the Double Jump.

 

294q99j.png


Edited by C-Dawg, 04 June 2014 - 10:29 PM.


#22 C-Dawg

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:32 AM

Updated download:

 

http://www.solidfile...1/ZodiacUpdate_(6-8-14).qst

 

I finally programmed the massive ghoma boss I'd been meaning to stick in Scorpio from early on.  His first iteration works.  There's a stronger version you face in Libra, guarding the Ice Beam, but for some reason that one isn't cooperating with me.  Buggy.

 

In both iterations, dealing damage to the player directly -- instead of using damage combos -- is a big pain in the butt.  I guess the constant drain I implemented here works sorta.  Whatever you do, stay away from those claws!!


Edited by C-Dawg, 09 June 2014 - 12:33 AM.


#23 Moosh

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:10 PM

Sorry I've been progressing so slowly, but I've finally gotten the grapple beam and I feel I should give my thoughts on Gemini now. Right off the bat I was rather unprepared because I didn't start with the blue ring or candle. I wandered about hopelessly lost until I finally buckled and cheated to find out where the candle was. It turns out I'd found it and passed it up earlier because I didn't have the money and then completely forgot about it. The blue ring I must've missed just because I wasn't shooting enough walls at the beginning of the game. At this point I went back to Gemini and started exploring it for real. The first thing that bothered me was that the armos didn't work right. If the enemy moved from its position before it fully spawned in, the combo wouldn't switch which is completely bizarre and I didn't understand for the longest time. I found that the eggs were incredibly annoying because the stun energy beam was an item that I never wanted on one of my buttons and yet it felt like the eggs were everywhere so I always had to have it active. To make matters worse I couldn't move my subscreen cursor to the left from the stun beam over to my missiles once I had it selected and pressing up and down didn't switch rows making subscreen navigation a huge burden. This was made absolutely terrible on screen 19:68 where I had to use the stun beam to hatch the eggs, use another weapon to kill the fish, and use the candle to light up the room all while dodging fireballs and having to do it all over every time I failed a jump in the following rooms. Another tricky room for different reasons was in 19:01 where I actually had to open the quest in ZQuest to be sure I was actually supposed to go trigger the bottom armos because the jump felt so unnatural. By the time I got to Iron, the zone had pretty much broken me and I cheated my way through him when I saw how much HP he had (I wasn't even visibly able to reduce his HP bar with a single hit with my explosive missiles). The boss fight to get the grapple beam was a complete joke by comparison.

 

So I had a less than fun time in Gemini. Here's my suggestions on how to improve the zone:

  • Possibly give the player a hint that they should have the candle and blue ring items by this point.
  • If it's possible, find a solution to the armos problem. Maybe BS graves, maybe a script? If it's just not something that can be fixed, no biggie.
  • Either move the space fish eggs around a bit so they're not so prevalent in the main paths through the zone (especially near the beginning) or make it so that some of them never return after being destroyed.
  • Avoid combining the dark rooms and the space fish eggs. Both ideas are fine on their own, but together they risk becoming tedious inventory juggling.
  • Change the position of the bottom armos on screen 19:01 or move the platform down one tile so the jump is more forgiving.
  • Lower Iron's HP if it really is as crazy high as it seems. Also consider giving the player a continue point closer to that fight seeing how hard it is.

I'll be pressing onwards and hoping that Iron fight was only a minor hiccup in the difficulty. If this quest is going to push me to cheating from here on out I fear I may not be able to complete it as cheating also messes with my ability to jump... :(



#24 C-Dawg

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:31 AM

These are good points, thanks for moving forward.  Gemini is about the point in the game where the player is expected to start hunting for hints on his or her own, but you're right, I don't want to make it ANNOYING.  Just difficult.  There is a hint about the Torch in Gemini right near the start, actually.  One of the terminals hacks you into a message from one of Victor's crew explaining they left the Torch in Aries.  There is also a clue to get the level 1 armor very early on, but perhaps it's too obtuse. The terminal just below the armor explains there's a weak point in the wall.  Perhaps I will have the terminal provide a coordinate so it's more obvious?

 

Although, honestly, I've been thinking of just removing the Torch altogether if I can think of some active item to replace it.  As you discovered, it is cumbersome, and not very useful.  The Stun Beam is similarly a big ol' stinker of a weapon (although it's upgraded version, the Ice Beam, is very good.)

 

What other "tool" type item would you find useful in the game to replace the Torch?  Something you actively use, but that isn't a weapon...?

 

Also, the boss guarding the Grapple is far too easy because it's not working right.  The idea is that the shield in the front should block all attacks.  What actually happens is the shield blocks all of the enemy's attacks, and yours sail right past it.  Whoops!  I need a way for the shield to blank FFCs that cross its path to deactivate your weapons.  Then, the game is to get around behind it so you can hit it.

 

EDIT: So, brainstorming a little bit on an item to replace the Torch and improve the stun beam.  

 

1. Stun Beam - Upgrade the item so that it shoots out a stunning beam towards each enemy on the screen, or maybe shoots them out in a circle around the player.  It still won't be amazing, but now it will likely stun everything.  Have to increase the energy cost accordingly.  The Ice Beam could do the same thing in addition to shooting out the bullet that freezes enemies, which is interesting for two reasons: (1) it keeps working on Space Fish eggs; and (2) it will help land your Ice blast because it will freeze enemies in place even if you miss with the primary beam.  Perhaps change the name to "Stun Blossom" to reflect the change?

 

2. Torch - Remove it entirely.  The dark rooms are just too sluggish and annoying.   Replace it with something else that has utility in this zone.  Some options might include:

 

(a) a magnet that lets you pick up and move armos combos.  It'd just remove the combo, let you carry it around while holding the button, and deposit the combo elsewhere.  As long as you don't wake it up, you can stack it and climb on top.  This actually makes the "bug" where your weapon can harm the armos before it's done hatching into a "feature," because you can smack the armos to keep it asleep even if you erroneously touch it to wake it up.

 

(b) anti-gravity belt.  This would become a late game item that inverts gravity for the character and consumes energy while it's active.  As long as jumping is disabled while inverted, this would be easy to code, too.  Allows for a sort of "flying" that might even be preferable to the infinity-jump boots I currently have in the game.

 

© A communicator that lets you try to contact important characters even when you're not by a computer.  This would let you save the last "plot" message you got so that you can re-read it if you missed or forgot something.  Another possibility is to put the Comsat's functionality on this active item and add this effect, and then come up with a new passive item.  You could switch the torch and comsat so that the rooms automatically light when you go into them with the torch (passive) and the Comsat now is active.

 

Any thoughts?


Edited by C-Dawg, 10 June 2014 - 01:01 PM.


#25 Moosh

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:12 PM

These are good points, thanks for moving forward.  Gemini is about the point in the game where the player is expected to start hunting for hints on his or her own, but you're right, I don't want to make it ANNOYING.  Just difficult.  There is a hint about the Torch in Gemini right near the start, actually.  One of the terminals hacks you into a message from one of Victor's crew explaining they left the Torch in Aries.  There is also a clue to get the level 1 armor very early on, but perhaps it's too obtuse. The terminal just below the armor explains there's a weak point in the wall.  Perhaps I will have the terminal provide a coordinate so it's more obvious?

Missing the torch was entirely my fault. I realize now that there was a change between the version where I first discovered Gemini and the version where I actually explored it. Because of this, I ignored the doors near the entrance of the zone as I'd already gone inside them in the old build and they just had mini Randars in them before. The armor I feel could use a terminal at some point informing you that you're supposed to have it and maybe giving a very vague hint where it is.

 

Although, honestly, I've been thinking of just removing the Torch altogether if I can think of some active item to replace it.  As you discovered, it is cumbersome, and not very useful.  The Stun Beam is similarly a big ol' stinker of a weapon (although it's upgraded version, the Ice Beam, is very good.)

 

What other "tool" type item would you find useful in the game to replace the Torch?  Something you actively use, but that isn't a weapon...?

What if you made it work like a shield item from Mega Man? Three or four low damage flames would orbit you until they're either destroyed or you press the button again to fire them outwards. The main weakness of the torch is that the flame is affected by gravity making it much harder to hit things. Even its low damage is fine in my opinion so long as you can actually hit things with it.

 

 

Also, the boss guarding the Grapple is far too easy because it's not working right.  The idea is that the shield in the front should block all attacks.  What actually happens is the shield blocks all of the enemy's attacks, and yours sail right past it.  Whoops!  I need a way for the shield to blank FFCs that cross its path to deactivate your weapons.  Then, the game is to get around behind it so you can hit it.

Ah. I actually ended up going behind it anyways, but the shield blocking its own attacks certainly did make the fight easier. I also recall the boss wouldn't chase you all the way to the edge of the screen, creating a safe spot in the room.



#26 C-Dawg

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:35 PM

I think I'll soup up that boss by: 

(1) Putting projectile shooters in FRONT and BEHIND the shield so he can hit you whenever.

(2) Make the shield block your weapon FFCs so that your Zodiac weapons or Explosive Missiles can't reach through it

(3) Increase it's health; and

(4) Implement a ramming attack, more likely if you're behind it. 

 

EDIT: Let me know how the grapple works for you.  It feels nice to me now, but the graphics are a little off center.  It also has a bad habit of shoving you into walls.  I like how it can pull you past obstacles that are sort of in your way, but I don't like how it can trap the player.  If you accomplish that, let me know.


Edited by C-Dawg, 10 June 2014 - 01:39 PM.


#27 Moosh

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:21 PM

EDIT: Let me know how the grapple works for you.  It feels nice to me now, but the graphics are a little off center.  It also has a bad habit of shoving you into walls.  I like how it can pull you past obstacles that are sort of in your way, but I don't like how it can trap the player.  If you accomplish that, let me know.

I get stuck pretty consistently on screen 13:2F on the bottom right hook. I can't seem to get through that screen at all without taking damage, really. I can't think of any other places where I got permanently stuck though so far. Also I fell on 10:7E and got side warped to one of the flying levels. Not sure what was up with that.



#28 C-Dawg

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:31 AM

No new uploads for the moment.  Tonight, I worked on several bosses that were not triggering secrets properly.  Through what appears to be random application of Enemy->Secrets, secret combos that themselves trigger secrets, and Screen->TriggerSecrets, I've got them all working now.  I also made sure the missiles were making a firing noise.

 

I changed the Stun beam and Ice Beam to both shoot a spray of stunning energy all around the player.  This is an IMMENSE improvement.  First, the stun beam might actually be pretty handy now because it stuns everything.  Also, it clears out the eggs super-duper fast.  I made the Ice Beam do the same thing, so my problem of making sure the higher beam wakes eggs is solved.  Hooray!

 

I also removed the Dark from several more annoying rooms in Gemini.  I will eventually get rid of the Torch entirely, I just don't know exactly what to replace it with.  I'm not gonna make it a shield-type item, because it's not really a weapon; it's in a tool slot, so I want it to be more utilitarian than that.



#29 C-Dawg

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:24 AM

---------------- UPDATED DOWNLOAD --------------------

http://www.solidfile...5/ZodiacUpdate_(6-15-14).qst

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So mostly new stuff this time.  The return to the Leo Zone is very plotty.  This means a bunch of new custom bosses, cutscenes, and a new corridor... lots of work.  All pretty well done now.  There are some hiccups in a few places, but it works.  

 

One request: IF YOU GET AS FAR AS THE PANDORA, PLEASE DON'T POST PLOT POINTS.  A lot of things get revealed at this point, and though there's much more to come, there are pretty major spoilers accessible in the file now.

 

EDIT - Okay, so this is making me nuts.

 

When a boss dies in Zodiac, I have to trigger the secrets in the room, ensure the secrets carryover to another room, and get the player to another room without the boss.  I originally did this by spawning a "kill all enemies" item and giving it to the player.  Then I started clearing the enemies manually and moving the player to a different screen with Warp commands.  The cleanest way is to just hit "Screen->TriggerSecrets()."  Sometimes that doesn't seem to stick, so I started combining "Screen->TriggerSecrets()" with another step; all walkable tiles become Secret Combo 16, which is set to a walk->trigger combo that, in turn, has a Secret Flag 17 on it.  Then, the next step the player takes should manually trigger secrets on the screen.  Secret Combo 17, is, finally, the direct warp tile we want.

 

So, why do I have so many different ways of ending a boss battle? BECAUSE NOT ONE OF THESE TECHNIQUES SEEMS TO WORK ALL THE TIME.  It's getting supremely irritating.  Each time I make a boss, particularly in the flying levels, I have to test out multiple different combinations of script endings and room setups before I find one that hits the carryover I need AND actually moves the player.  I don't know why it's a bigger problem with flying levels, but it seems to be.  I'm especially annoying with Screen->TriggerSecrets() because it should work ALWAYS, but for some reason there are times when it just... doesnt.

 

If anyone knows what the poop is going on, by all me means, tell me what I'm missing here.

 

EDIT2 - I think some of my problems stem from how ZScript treats pointers to NPCs.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that when an NPC dies, the pointer previously pointing to that NPC will immediately switch to point at a different NPC on the same screen.  In other words, as long as some enemy is alive, NPC->isValid(); will never return false.  Is that right?  

 

That doesn't solve all the problems, though.  Why doesn't Screen->TriggerSecrets() automatically trigger carryovers?  Why do I have to put manual triggers on the screen too if I want to make that work?  Ugh.

 

I'd like to find a general "Enemy_Defeated" algorithm that works all the time.  Then I can go back and streamline the boss code a great deal.  This is going to be really important, because I'm getting near the endgame now, which will involve me coding lots and lots of new bosses and corridors before I'm done.  I need to gather my efficiencies now.


Edited by C-Dawg, 17 June 2014 - 09:55 AM.


#30 C-Dawg

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:43 AM

------------------- UPDATED DOWNLOAD ------------------
http://www.solidfile...Backup6-17-14.z
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Massive work in this update that you really can't see. It's not flashy. I did a major overhaul of all the custom bosses so that the life bars are accurate, and I fixed many, many wonky boss conclusions. Things are not perfect, but they're much better than they were.

Next step is to make a custom boss defeated function to improve the animation, play a little congratulatory trill, and trigger secrets. Once that's done, ill get back to advancing the plot towards endgame.

Edited by C-Dawg, 18 June 2014 - 12:51 AM.



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