112 replies to this topic

[TheLegend_njf]

If the player feels they need to uncap frequently in a quest, than that quest had a major problem.

[Avaro]

If the player feels they need to uncap frequently in a quest, than that quest had a major problem.

 

Uncap? No I don't think you can make it as simple as that. Even though it's weird that you're hearing this from me :0

 

Some players will always uncap, no matter what. Even if the quest is the most perfect quest in their eyes, they might uncap frequently, if they are used to it. After all, it makes things go faster.

 

I don't like the uncapping feature of ZC. It's why I'll never have regenerating magic or heart rings anymore.

[anikom15]

If the player feels they need to uncap frequently in a quest, than that quest had a major problem.

That's like saying if a player feels the need to skip through text then the story has a major problem, or if some idiot fast-forwards through a film then the film has major problems, or something like that. Bad causation!

Edited by anikom15, 12 May 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[Avaro]

Yep that's right. And here are some of my things, that should have never existed in ZC, that were not mentioned yet, I hope.

 

Things in my quests:

- The darkworld in Tower of Shadows.

- Level 98 in Island Adventure.

- The cucco dodging game in quest for christmas.

- The boss-mode in Pong.

- All of the game slowdowning scripts in Puzzle Robots.

- The linearity in Tower of Hiilea.

- The rules in Myrule. (actually a really awesome quest, but the rules ruin it xD)

 

General things:

- Push blocks you can't push if you don't kill the enemies.

- Puzzles that don't provide anything special.

- Experimental gimmicks that don't work well.

- Screens that have too many enemies.

- Trap mazes.

- Overused music.

- Sound effects that end with the "click" sound. (a bug with ZC had corrupted some soundeffects)

- Locations of mandatory items/areas that are stupidly unobvious. (quests that give no direction)

- Overworlds that are too open at the beginning of the game.

- F1, F3, F4, F5 and F6.

- Minimaps. Especially those that are unedited and just show squares.

- Bats...

[TheLegend_njf]

That's like saying if a player feels the need to skip through text then the story has a major problem, or if some idiot fast-forwards through a film then the film has major problems, or something like that. Bad causation!

You're overgeneralizing my friend.

[Moosh]

- The rules in Myrule. (actually a really awesome quest, but the rules ruin it xD)

I actually thought the rules were fine. It was just the non-weighted randomization of the rules that caused problems. You're just as likely to get the terrible rules as you are to get the harmless ones. It would have been fine if you'd arranged the rules into various sets and only given out so many from each set.

[anikom15]

You're overgeneralizing my friend.

The irony in this statement is scintillating.

[Air Luigi]

 

 

- Locations of mandatory items/areas that are stupidly unobvious. (quests that give no direction)

- Overworlds that are too open at the beginning of the game.

 

Freedom is a strong point in quest, not a weakness .-. (If it's well planned, of course). Zelda is an exploration game, excessive hand-holding kills Zelda.  There isn't nothing more amazing than getting lost in a well crafted overworld. 

[Aevin]

You're overgeneralizing my friend.

The irony in this statement is scintillating.

Try to stay on the topic at hand, please.

 

I think I'm a wimp when it comes to difficulty. I'm pretty easily frustrated by things like Fire Wizzrobes in narrow corridors. And Fire Gleeoks. I think there must be something I'm missing, because I find it virtually impossible to defeat a Fire Gleeok in any way except charging forward with a nice tunic and several potions. I hate feeling like skill doesn't matter and it's all about tanking through it.

[Air Luigi]

Try to stay on the topic at hand, please.

 

I think I'm a wimp when it comes to difficulty. I'm pretty easily frustrated by things like Fire Wizzrobes in narrow corridors. And Fire Gleeoks. I think there must be something I'm missing, because I find it virtually impossible to defeat a Fire Gleeok in any way except charging forward with a nice tunic and several potions.

 

 

You can stun fire wizzrobes with the hookshot, and the mirror shield can stop the fire gleeok's flames.

[KingPridenia]

Killgating, one of the cardinal sins of the gaming industry.

Preventing a player from doing something they are not supposed to by outright killing them, usually done as a lazy way to enforce linearity, is almost without exception an awful design choice, both in ZC and the gaming industry in general. This is because the player has no chance to realize what they have done was wrong before the game gives them the big middle finger up and kills them.

 

Edit: Related to that subject, instakill enemies and spikes are also really bad. Link's Quest for the Hookshot is VERY guilty of this with Moosh's Deathbo spamming in the Dark World. There are also a few other examples in quests, but LQftH is the biggest offender by far here IIRC.

 

What about simply having enemies that are so powerful that if you go somewhere too early you have a 98% chance of getting completely wasted? Often used in early Dragon Quest games, although you had a clear indicator of where the next area is. But often, you would fight manageable enemies on one side of the bridge and as soon as you cross, you're up against enemies that pound the snot out of you. VERY annoying in the original Dragon Quest, especially with the "lose half your gold if you die" trope in effect. You could be fighting Slimes then go near a bridge and a Scorpion gets to enjoy a nice unprepared level 3 hero meal.

 

Put more into ZC perspective, like you have all enemies that do 1/2 heart around the start, but after a certain point, now enemies are doing 2-3 hearts a hit and take 6+ Wooden Sword hits to defeat. Would that be similar to the insta-kill "You're not supposed to be here yet" nonsense? Also, what if a game just has a random obstacle that doesn't kill you but simply cannot be passed until you find the plot element that makes travel possible? For instance, using the NES game Willow as an example, if you try to pass the first bridge without defeating the first boss, the bridge simply begins to shake and you are unable to advance until that boss is slain. Obviously, NOTHING tells you directly "Oh hey, this guy has cursed the bridge. Go kill him to lift its curse." You have to figure it out in cryptic guide dang it style NES era gameplay.

[Orithan]

Apologize for the internet cutoff

 

What about simply having enemies that are so powerful that if you go somewhere too early you have a 98% chance of getting completely wasted? Often used in early Dragon Quest games, although you had a clear indicator of where the next area is. But often, you would fight manageable enemies on one side of the bridge and as soon as you cross, you're up against enemies that pound the snot out of you. VERY annoying in the original Dragon Quest, especially with the "lose half your gold if you die" trope in effect. You could be fighting Slimes then go near a bridge and a Scorpion gets to enjoy a nice unprepared level 3 hero meal.

 

Put more into ZC perspective, like you have all enemies that do 1/2 heart around the start, but after a certain point, now enemies are doing 2-3 hearts a hit and take 6+ Wooden Sword hits to defeat. Would that be similar to the insta-kill "You're not supposed to be here yet" nonsense? Also, what if a game just has a random obstacle that doesn't kill you but simply cannot be passed until you find the plot element that makes travel possible? For instance, using the NES game Willow as an example, if you try to pass the first bridge without defeating the first boss, the bridge simply begins to shake and you are unable to advance until that boss is slain. Obviously, NOTHING tells you directly "Oh hey, this guy has cursed the bridge. Go kill him to lift its curse." You have to figure it out in cryptic guide dang it style NES era gameplay.

 

What I am trying to say is that there are better ways to tell the player "You are not supposed to be doing this yet!" without flat out killing them.

Edited by Orithan, 13 May 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[LinktheMaster]

I think I'm a wimp when it comes to difficulty. I'm pretty easily frustrated by things like Fire Wizzrobes in narrow corridors. And Fire Gleeoks. I think there must be something I'm missing, because I find it virtually impossible to defeat a Fire Gleeok in any way except charging forward with a nice tunic and several potions. I hate feeling like skill doesn't matter and it's all about tanking through it.

No, I'm the same way.  Granted, I haven't played nearly as many quests as some people, but I'm just not a big fan of overly difficult stuff.  I think part of it comes with the amount of time I have.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to sit and practice ZC a bunch.  So if I'm stuck with something really difficult, I'm prone to just switching to another quest.

 

Of course, I don't really fault the quest for this. If I'm rating something really difficult, then I pretty much ignore that aspect in the rating (unless the difficulty is obtained by cheap methods).  But as it stands, challenging quests really just aren't for me, which sucks since there's some really good quests out there that are meant to be challenging.

[TheLegend_njf]

Try to stay on the topic at hand, please.

I think I'm a wimp when it comes to difficulty. I'm pretty easily frustrated by things like Fire Wizzrobes in narrow corridors. And Fire Gleeoks. I think there must be something I'm missing, because I find it virtually impossible to defeat a Fire Gleeok in any way except charging forward with a nice tunic and several potions. I hate feeling like skill doesn't matter and it's all about tanking through it.

The fire gleeok is a stupid enemy anyways, and when there is more than one fire gleeok (The famous 40 headed Gleeok), it's all tanking from there.

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 13 May 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Avaro]

Freedom is a strong point in quest, not a weakness .-. (If it's well planned, of course). Zelda is an exploration game, excessive hand-holding kills Zelda.  There isn't nothing more amazing than getting lost in a well crafted overworld. 

 

Yes, of course excessive hand-holding doesn't help the quest. But on the other side, excessive freedom is also boring in my opinion. I am actually talking about quests where you spend more than 1 hour walking around the overworld, into lots of dead-ends until you finally find the first dungeon. That is not so nice