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Hypothetical "what if" - Quest Sponsorship


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#31 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 05:23 AM

If you guys get tired of Using the Z quest Engine you should make another one,..  Or, etc

-  idk this topic about paying people to make games gets my head spinning. 'Pay me money - Just to make a Potato Salad for several people sort of thing.' 

Kickstarter lol.

 

I have been thinking alot of what i would have to change in my quest if  'Nintendo' god forbid, ever threw down their Mighty and stupid 'Cease and Decist' - I hope i spelled that right, - HAMMER, on Any Zelda-ish Fan game.

 

So I've been thinking of Changing Link To a different kind of Character and Just calling the Game 'Atlantis - Mystical Harps' if any of that happens to us in the future.

 

Yes you can still make Decent games with the Zelda Classic Engine, We might have to rename The Zelda Classic Engine to something Else' Entirely - if Nintendo decides to ever attack this place, or shut us down,   so we can put the Engine Entirely on steam and even Sell Zelda-ish Quests on Steam, just to continue to Survive.

 

That Should just be the Ultimate Goal for all of us. To Sell games on Steam - that Greedy Nintendo cannot touch 0~^


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 31 January 2019 - 05:26 AM.


#32 Timelord

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 06:19 AM

We might have to rename The Zelda Classic Engine to something Else' Entirely - if Nintendo decides to ever attack this place, or shut us down,   so we can put the Engine Entirely on steam and even Sell Zelda-ish Quests on Steam, just to continue to Survive.

 

That Should just be the Ultimate Goal for all of us. To Sell games on Steam - that Greedy Nintendo cannot touch 0~^

 

(Emphasis, mine.)

 

We've already done that for 2.55. Zelda Classic is now the name of a primary module for ZQuest Classic Player and ZQuest Creator. The ZQuest name is non-infringing.

 

I created a mockup in the default module that reflects the changes, and in general, represents how 2.55 might look 'out of the box'.

 

2.55 and above will ship with the default module, with the Zelda Classic module available as downloadable content.

 

You will be able to load engine modules at any time, in the future, and I am considering writing a Module Designer toolkit programme suite.


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#33 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:42 AM

(Emphasis, mine.)

 

We've already done that for 2.55. Zelda Classic is now the name of a primary module for ZQuest Classic Player and ZQuest Creator. The ZQuest name is non-infringing.

 

I created a mockup in the default module that reflects the changes, and in general, represents how 2.55 might look 'out of the box'.

 

2.55 and above will ship with the default module, with the Zelda Classic module available as downloadable content.

 

You will be able to load engine modules at any time, in the future, and I am considering writing a Module Designer toolkit programme suite.

 

Oh Nice.* Awesome \0~0/



#34 James24

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:12 PM

I don't think Nintendo would be all that opposed to allowing a fan to write and get paid for a Zelda game.  If they can clearly see that the material is very good and they got a cut of the profits, why would they oppose it?  More money for them at the end of the day right?  Money talks folks especially large amounts of money - you'd be surprised what it can do.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if Nintendo started ZC in the first place.  That's right Phantom Menace was an undercover Nintendo programmer and Nintendo started all of this so they could gain insights into what their fanbase thought was "good" Zelda.  Fans will only devote their time to making a Zelda game they thought was "good" so by looking at their work they gain a wonderful insight and all for free.  That way whenever they made new official Zelda games they would know with 99% certainty that it will sell well with their fanbase.  They'd also get access to new and creative ideas which their developers might otherwise not have thought up of.  It makes sense if you look at it from a business perspective.

 

There's a big problem with selling games on Steam.  Who's going to pay you whilst you make your quest?  Making a "flagship" quest like IoR, Hero of Dreams and Lost Isle is no small feat and will take up a lot of your time which you could have otherwise spent working.



#35 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:53 PM

I don't think Nintendo would be all that opposed to allowing a fan to write and get paid for a Zelda game.  If they can clearly see that the material is very good and they got a cut of the profits, why would they oppose it?  More money for them at the end of the day right?  Money talks folks especially large amounts of money - you'd be surprised what it can do.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if Nintendo started ZC in the first place.  That's right Phantom Menace was an undercover Nintendo programmer and Nintendo started all of this so they could gain insights into what their fanbase thought was "good" Zelda.  Fans will only devote their time to making a Zelda game they thought was "good" so by looking at their work they gain a wonderful insight and all for free.  That way whenever they made new official Zelda games they would know with 99% certainty that it will sell well with their fanbase.  They'd also get access to new and creative ideas which their developers might otherwise not have thought up of.  It makes sense if you look at it from a business perspective.

 

There's a big problem with selling games on Steam.  Who's going to pay you whilst you make your quest?  Making a "flagship" quest like IoR, Hero of Dreams and Lost Isle is no small feat and will take up a lot of your time which you could have otherwise spent working.

 

Nintendo is in fact - very harsh, as to go out of their way to attack fan projects even shutting them down by hacking or disabling sites.

 

I am just talking about a way to save Zelda Classic; just in Case Nintendo, as Harsh as they are too their fans, Decides to demolish us all with their ridiculous policies.

WE all gotta have some kind of platform we can continue using Zelda classic and making games and even selling them, even if we never used to have such an option, we could in the future..

if its not to much to ask for.

Some have the passion and the time to make these games, while i understand alot of people do not and rather be doing something else.

 

It's just a fun thing you can always go back to.


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 31 January 2019 - 10:55 PM.

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#36 Timelord

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:01 AM

I don't think Nintendo would be all that opposed to allowing a fan to write and get paid for a Zelda game.  If they can clearly see that the material is very good and they got a cut of the profits, why would they oppose it?  More money for them at the end of the day right?  Money talks folks especially large amounts of money - you'd be surprised what it can do.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if Nintendo started ZC in the first place.  That's right Phantom Menace was an undercover Nintendo programmer and Nintendo started all of this so they could gain insights into what their fanbase thought was "good" Zelda.  Fans will only devote their time to making a Zelda game they thought was "good" so by looking at their work they gain a wonderful insight and all for free.  That way whenever they made new official Zelda games they would know with 99% certainty that it will sell well with their fanbase.  They'd also get access to new and creative ideas which their developers might otherwise not have thought up of.  It makes sense if you look at it from a business perspective.

 

There's a big problem with selling games on Steam.  Who's going to pay you whilst you make your quest?  Making a "flagship" quest like IoR, Hero of Dreams and Lost Isle is no small feat and will take up a lot of your time which you could have otherwise spent working.

 

That is true of many Indie games. Peope put in the time aforehand, and see if there is a commercial market for them, thereafter.

 

I've known peope at two divisions of Nintendo who have played ZC quests. They know that it exists. That doesn't in any way protect it, though.

 

I should note that you do not need the Cassic Modue to play existing quests. Rather, it grans you the Z1 UI (file select), the first five standard quests, and the cassic tileset as a base. Other complete modules will contain their own base quests.

 

We are going to have contests to create those, similar to how we did that for 3rd, 4th, and 5th; except that these will start out as new 1st and 2nd quests, per module.

 

Try the Defaut and the other modules. Have a look at the format. See what you think of it. I need to update the title splash for Default: It's a placehoer, at present.

 

You can set your current module per-programme, in zc,cfg and zquest.cfg (2.55). I do not yet have a modue selection diaogue in either programme, or in ZCL, and I'm unsure how we that wi work for the player (load once the player is open), but the player does not mandate using a specific modue to function. Changing modules in ZQuest, while it is running, should be fine, though.

 

At present, there is a bug with quest icons, but I will sove that after I am done spending uncounted hours on 2,53.


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#37 klop422

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 06:09 AM

Thing is, it's about trademarks. If anyone can make a Zelda game, Nintendo might as well not own it, according to the law.
I mean, there are issues with that, but that's for another discussion.
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#38 Avaro

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:52 AM

Thing is, it's about trademarks. If anyone can make a Zelda game, Nintendo might as well not own it, according to the law.
I mean, there are issues with that, but that's for another discussion.

I've always been curious about this argument. Why wouldnt a trademark holder be able to allow hand-selected fans to use their IP, but automatically forbid it for others? It's their IP, their choice, right? Or does the law literally say, you can't share your IP. Probably xd


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#39 klop422

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 12:04 PM

I mean, that's what I've been told in conversations about this. I presume it's also just to do with the fact that the assets are copyrighted, and if Nintendo let one fan make a game using it, what's to stop everyone making Zelda games. And if everyone's making Zelda games, does Nintendo really own it?

 

I would argue that whenever someone adds anything to culture - be it a game or a movie or a piece of music - they don't own it anymore, but, again, that's starting to get off topic.


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#40 Geoffrey

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:00 PM

I mean, that's what I've been told in conversations about this. I presume it's also just to do with the fact that the assets are copyrighted, and if Nintendo let one fan make a game using it, what's to stop everyone making Zelda games. And if everyone's making Zelda games, does Nintendo really own it?

 

Copyright can be defended or not, according to the whims of the holder. It's entirely up to their discretion and does not affect the status of the copyright. Trademarks, however, face the risk of becoming generic; once genericized, a trademark passes into the public domain. Heroin is a particularly interesting example, previously a brand name for diamorphine.


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#41 klop422

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:41 PM

Ah, I see. So I was kind of right the first time :P

That said, Trademarks are often misappropriated as copyright - I've heard Disney (no surprises there) has argued down others' uses of Tarzan - a public domain character - because they have the trademark for their movie. Not sure about the legitimacy of that (I forget where I read it) but still, that's a thing that can happen.



#42 James24

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:48 PM

@SkyGirlLizard - perhaps the reason why Nintendo was so harsh was because those fans were trying to cut Nintendo out of their rightfully deserved royalty for using trademark characters.  We don't know the full story.  But if you look anywhere else you can see that the idea of allowing others to use your trademark characters has worked.  Take Star Wars for instance - there are plenty of novel writers who use those characters to make money when selling their own books and they give a cut of their profits to the trademark holders in return.  There's also McDonalds - if they didn't allow franchisees to use their trademark golden arches then it wouldn't be so successful as it is now.

 

As a quest maker if you use Zelda characters and market your game as a Zelda game you're getting a huge advantage over those who decide to make their own characters from scratch.  Zelda is iconic and already has a large fanbase who is going to think "Wow another official Zelda game - I'll buy this immediately".  Therefore, Nintendo legally and morally deserves to have a cut of whatever you rake in and its up to you to see if you can negotiate something that's agreeable to both.

 

I do understand your point about people being passionate about making games.  But when they do that, its mostly for their own tastes and everyone else will come second to that taste.  If a game is designed to sell then right from the very outset it has to put its target fanbase's tastes first over even the author's own tastes.  Good example is my own LoH quest.  I made that for my difficulty tastes first, but if I was planning to sell LoH I'd probably have changed it to be very easy.  Making a game for yourself is easy - making a game to sell to everyone else who doesn't share the same taste as you do is extremely difficult.

 

Finally I repeat my question.  Selling your game on steam *might* make big dollars in the end but who is going to pay you in the mean-time whilst you make your "flagship" quest?  And make no mistake it needs to be a "flagship" quest to have any hope of high sales.  I don't see this working precisely due to this problem.


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#43 Geoffrey

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:22 PM

Ah, I see. So I was kind of right the first time :P

That said, Trademarks are often misappropriated as copyright - I've heard Disney (no surprises there) has argued down others' uses of Tarzan - a public domain character - because they have the trademark for their movie. Not sure about the legitimacy of that (I forget where I read it) but still, that's a thing that can happen.

 

I actually had a discussion about this a few days ago. According to current copyright laws, it is entirely within our rights to create something based on Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan, but it is not within our rights to create something based on Disney's Tarzan.

 

This is not to say that Disney wouldn't try to shut us down even if we were within our rights; and, given their inexhaustible money vault, I doubt we could prove our case before we ran out of money.


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#44 James24

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:54 PM

Zoria - I just thought of something.  If people are going to try and sell their quests on Steam then you should charge a cut for using ZClassic's engine.  I mean if people are going to make money using your programming skills and effort then its only fair that you take your share of the profits.  If people are going to release stuff for free then its the same deal as is now.

 

But I have still heard no answer to that one important question.  Who will sponsor and invest in quest making?  Who is going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a game that isn't even finished yet?  Who is going to take the risk that all of that money can go down the drain if the quest maker dies the next day?  Who is going to take the risk that the game flops on its release day and its sales don't even reach $1000?

 

DarkFlameWolf and Peteo found it a very stressful experience due to the lack of funds and I've heard rumours about Evan's experience - and for these reasons they'd probably never make another one ever again.  If we are to properly take care of our best quest makers whilst they make important "flagship" quests then sponsors and investors are absolutely essential.  We might be enjoying Lost Isle 2, Lost Isle 3 and Isle of Rebirth 2 right now if the proper financing channels were open.

 

Even if the copyright issue magically goes away due to a large sum of money being paid to Nintendo and even if ZC 2.55 is able to implement the steam sales thing successfully, all would be for zero if the important question of who will sponsor and invest is not answered.


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#45 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:28 PM

Zoria - I just thought of something.  If people are going to try and sell their quests on Steam then you should charge a cut for using ZClassic's engine.  I mean if people are going to make money using your programming skills and effort then its only fair that you take your share of the profits.  If people are going to release stuff for free then its the same deal as is now.

 

But I have still heard no answer to that one important question.  Who will sponsor and invest in quest making?  Who is going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a game that isn't even finished yet?  Who is going to take the risk that all of that money can go down the drain if the quest maker dies the next day?  Who is going to take the risk that the game flops on its release day and its sales don't even reach $1000?

 

DarkFlameWolf and Peteo found it a very stressful experience due to the lack of funds and I've heard rumours about Evan's experience - and for these reasons they'd probably never make another one ever again.  If we are to properly take care of our best quest makers whilst they make important "flagship" quests then sponsors and investors are absolutely essential.  We might be enjoying Lost Isle 2, Lost Isle 3 and Isle of Rebirth 2 right now if the proper financing channels were open.

 

Even if the copyright issue magically goes away due to a large sum of money being paid to Nintendo and even if ZC 2.55 is able to implement the steam sales thing successfully, all would be for zero if the important question of who will sponsor and invest is not answered.

 

 

LOL I don't want to Buy Zelda classic though lol, but Idk - kinda scary ;3   Should be Free ddwnload engine for kids and anyone etc.

 

Somehow i would suggest to make the engine Instantly Load quests you download on Steam.

Because some people still, do not understand How to load quests people make into the engine.

  They do not understand the steps, like Creating your name first - Then hitting the Load button,.  It Must be SUPER User- friendly is what i am saying,

where after they create their in- game name, the Quest browse list Pops up right away in the STEAM version ZC engine

right after you download a finished quest on Steam.

 

People should be able to constantly Update their quest files, if they have to add things or make changes to the game.

 

Also:

https://www.purezc.n...wtopic=74799   - Do check this out guys.


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 02 February 2019 - 11:54 PM.



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