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So, Who Likes Ocarina of Time's Overworld?


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#1 kurt91

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:24 PM

Okay, I only made a new thread because I couldn't find a place to put this already, and I worded the title like that to avoid spoilers for the "holy shit!" moment...

 

 

Skelux, the guy who made the Super Mario 64 Level Importer and Star Road, has been working on a project where you can insert any level of infinite size into Super Mario 64, with it only taking up a single level slot. He's apparently really proud of this, and has been asking for suggestions of what people would like to see, while he works on getting this function working automatically in the next version of the Level Importer.

 

Just imagine an 8 Red Coin mission where you have to essentially play through the entirety of Ocarina of Time, with a single Coin placed at each Dungeon entrance, and the Star placed at Ganon's Tower, and that only being a single level. Infinite level sizes mean that you could port any game's overworld into a single level slot. Skelux himself was considering porting in Skyrim or Morrowind, just to prove that he could.


Edited by kurt91, 21 September 2017 - 10:25 PM.

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#2 Anthus

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:41 PM

I will add more later, but this for me sounds awesome as SM64 and OoT are very formative games for me. I am in the small camp of people that likes OoT's overworld, even Hyrule field. :P

The real question is, would it be as fun to explore a huge world designed for an entirely different game style? Oot's maps aren't made with platforming or free jumping in mind so it might be boring outside of the concept alone.
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#3 The Satellite

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:44 PM

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Just like in OoT!


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#4 kurt91

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

I will add more later, but this for me sounds awesome as SM64 and OoT are very formative games for me. I am in the small camp of people that likes OoT's overworld, even Hyrule field. :P

The real question is, would it be as fun to explore a huge world designed for an entirely different game style? Oot's maps aren't made with platforming or free jumping in mind so it might be boring outside of the concept alone.

Well, like the video shows, Mario does have to take a few workarounds for some situations. For instance, the well in Kakariko becomes a wall-jump challenge to get out of. A few parts of Zora's River looks like it would be passable for platforming with some coins and enemies scattered throughout. To be honest, I can't really imagine anything to fix Hyrule Field. Wing Cap would break the whole exploration angle since you can just fly over places you aren't meant to. I can only think of something like making the roads amp up Mario's running speed three or four times over. That way, the player's launching themselves across the field. It would be fun for novelty's sake, and a decent way of speeding the area up.

 

Some of the puzzles could be completely reworked, as well. Mario could have to lure a propeller enemy near the Shadow Temple entrance in order to reach it. The entrance to the Water Temple could be set to involve using the Metal Cap to step on an underwater button. Wrap a bit of the Biggoron Sword sequence in there as well, using the high-speed Hyrule Field idea, so you're having to accelerate to Lake Hylia while on a timer, from a Metal Cap box placed somewhere like Lon Lon Ranch. Don't forget replacing the Running Man with Koopa the Quick and a Shiny Shell to ride on.

 

Skelux is known for pulling off some really neat stuff on a whim. If you've ever seen how Shadow Mario was coded in Sunshine, I'll bet anything that copying the concept into SM64 would be child's play, and would make an interesting Dark Link parallel. Since Link has various tools to help him, Mario's platforming would make a different approach. For instance, Mario doesn't have anything like the Hookshot, and needs a temporary Metal Cap powerup to mimic the Iron Boots. Bombable walls would require finding a Bob-Omb and hauling it to the right spot before it explodes in Mario's hands, although I'd imagine that the timer for that would be slightly extended. Similarly, while Link has to find ways to burn stuff like spider webs, Mario just needs a Minish Cap.

 

It would take some creative tinkering, and I wouldn't argue against placing a few things like crates and makeshift walls to modify the area and make platforming a bit more prevalent. (Like extending the height for the jump needed to enter the Shadow Temple by turning the railing into a fence, for that propeller enemy idea.) You could do quite a bit with the Ocarina of Time overworld.


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#5 Cukeman

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:10 PM

Well, Mario's abilities (or should I say Jumpman's) are acrobatic. They're least interesting to use in broad flat areas, and most interesting in areas designed for, well... platforming. Jumping to higher platforms and ledges, wall-kicking, narrow ledges, conveyors and elevators... etc. Since OoT is designed around only a wee tiny bit of jumping, you'd have to add floating and moving platforms and gimmicks like that; if that was done, OoT would make a fine background landscape/backdrop, without adding anything, without designing new content, without building levels inside Hyrule, it's... a bit of the empty room syndrome- added distance between activities. Did you notice at 0:36, the water is a solid surface?

 

Sorry to be so negative, just curious what this guy's goals are beyond showing off a bit of technology.


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#6 Anthus

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:49 PM

The entrance to the Water Temple could be set to involve using the Metal Cap to step on an underwater button. Wrap a bit of the Biggoron Sword sequence in there as well, using the high-speed Hyrule Field idea, so you're having to accelerate to Lake Hylia while on a timer, from a Metal Cap box placed somewhere like Lon Lon Ranch. Don't forget replacing the Running Man with Koopa the Quick and a Shiny Shell to ride on.

 

Tbh, I didn't watch the video-- yet, but as far as Lon Lon Ranch existing within Hyrule field, I can tell you with certainty that Lon Lon Ranch is a separate area. If you look at a model of OoT's Hyrule Field, you'll see that Lon Lon Ranch isn't really there, and the area would be too big to physically fit there. The loading zone between the two takes you to another map altogether. On this tangent, you'd also have physical mapping issues with getting Zora's River/ Domain/ Fountain, and Kakariko village, and that pesky cemetery in the same area. If you take all the OW areas in OoT, and string them together as they are in game, a few of them overlap, mainly in the northeastern part of the game's map. I suppose with this proposed infinite map hack, I'm assuming you can also have loading zones within a level (SM64 does this with Lethal Lava Land, Shifting Sand Land, and Tiny-Huge Island)? This would fix all these problems. This is just an observation, but as far as all the other stuff you said, from a gameplay perspective, it could be fun. I'd totally mess around with it, to say the least.

 

And that Culex guy is a wizard. I think he's active here, too :blah:



#7 Norzan

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 06:39 AM

The problem with Oot's overworld is that they made it too big for a character that is too slow, if Link was much faster then it wouldn't be such an issue (it would still be bad). Sure, you get Epona with Adult Link but you still have to cross it multiple times with young Link on foot and it's so damn slow.

 

Even with Mario higher speed and long jump, Oot's overworld is still boring and empty.



#8 Anthus

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:11 PM

I just watched that video finally, and noticed that he is using the OoT 3D models. That's pretty crazy. But he does seem to fit all the areas visited in one contiguous map. I'm still not convinced some areas aren't being unloaded so they don't clip through each other. I'd love to see the whole model here.



#9 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:15 PM

The small narrow passages would be where he does the loading/unloading of areas on-the-fly. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible since the console has barely any RAM lol.



#10 kurt91

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:36 PM

The small narrow passages would be where he does the loading/unloading of areas on-the-fly. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible since the console has barely any RAM lol.

Nope. Check one of his earlier videos. Contains all of Wuhu Island, or wherever it is that Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit's jogging exercise takes place. No small narrow passages there. I mean, yeah RAM is an issue, but I think that the draw distance is what suffers if you try to do too much.

 

EDIT: Figured I might as well post the video I'm mentioning.

 

 

And I happened to find that this got uploaded even more recently...

 


Edited by kurt91, 26 September 2017 - 11:43 PM.


#11 Cukeman

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:05 AM

Okay that Delfino Plaza one is pretty darned cool



#12 kurt91

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:26 AM

Okay that Delfino Plaza one is pretty darned cool

Now if we can just get the guy who made the Last Impact hack to share the FLUDD power-up that he made.

 

Actually, in Sunshine you can see all of the levels out in the distance while in other levels. I wonder if you could just load up all of the areas in one large map, and use the Rocket Nozzle to get it to act as one massive open-world setup, with the original level portals as shortcuts.



#13 Anthus

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:14 AM

Now if we can just get the guy who made the Last Impact hack to share the FLUDD power-up that he made.

 

Actually, in Sunshine you can see all of the levels out in the distance while in other levels. I wonder if you could just load up all of the areas in one large map, and use the Rocket Nozzle to get it to act as one massive open-world setup, with the original level portals as shortcuts.

 

That would be cool. You'd have to use the actual levels though, cause the ones you see far of in the distance are just low poly versions. Interestingly, Bianco Hills, and Pianta Village take up the same physical place in the game's world.

 

https://youtu.be/JpJEK5vJdeA?t=170 (Media tags won't work, it's a specific time)

 

 

As far as the RAM thing, I don't think the actual N64's specs matter, as emulators can expand RAM, and all that stuff. There's no way that would work on real hardware.




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