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Games with Issues


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#1 Cukeman

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:04 AM

You know what I think would be a neat job? Going back to some bad old games and reworking them to be awesome. I'd try and keep the same aesthetic, but (depending on the game's problems) refine controls, improve collision detection, obliterate lag, correct glitches, de-blur graphics, expand music loops, replace tracks if they're really bad, improve cameras, add objectives, improve level layout, stuff like that. I'm not talking full on remakes though, more like the same game if they had better designers and technical bugs were ironed out.

 

Don't know how you'd get paid, most of these would be licensed to some other company, and I don't know how you'd compete with new games, but just as something to study, analyze and improve, I think that would be neat and rewarding.


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#2 Koh

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:47 AM

Some of these games you're talking about are failures by concept as well though, not just by design.  The only way some of these can be improved upon is to be rebuilt from the ground up all together.  

 

One such project existed and mostly happened, called Action 52 OWNS.  As it suggests, the idea was to take an Action 52 game and make it actually worth playing, and not a broken mess.   There were some very interesting results produced from that.  Here are a few examples:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aR97u7XE1Mw

https://www.youtube....h?v=B1Rldfcm8kA


Edited by Koh, 17 September 2017 - 05:51 AM.


#3 Cukeman

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 06:05 AM

Some of these games you're talking about are failures by concept as well though, not just by design...

 

 

I admit I'd be choosy about projects



#4 Adem

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 06:33 AM

tumblr_owf8ziNNaa1rkbmkso1_250.png

 

/me runs.

 

I understand what you're saying, Cukeman. There are so many games that have minor errors or kinks and it'd be nice to see them worked out. In some cases, it's somewhat ridiculous that these weren't fixed before releasing the actual games. Like you said, though, I can't see it being incredibly profitable as people would rarely want to re-purchase their old games, myself included. :shrug: 


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#5 klop422

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:07 AM

tumblr_owf8ziNNaa1rkbmkso1_250.png

 

/me runs.

 

At the speed of sound?

 

Anyway, on topic:

I have long thought that the Zelda CD-i games for example could be made well. In terms of ideas, they seem to work. There are a few other games which suffer mostly from having just bad controls and a couple levels being badly designed, meaning that they could work decently well if the controls are fixed.


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#6 Orithan

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:03 AM

It is such a shame when otherwise promising games end up falling flat on their face because they are unpolished or otherwise buggy, some of which happen to be games I enjoy or did enjoy in the past (eg. Sonic Heroes, Lufia: Ruins of Lore). Starfox Zero is a very good example of a promising game that ended up falling flat on its face because of bad design decisions involving the camera angles and controls, sub-par writing (eg. the info dump General Pepper gives out on the final stage) and such a stark lack of content. That game needs quite a beefy update; ranging from fixing the camera angles, fixing up the controls, coming up with a better way to deliver the story, greatly increasing the amount of content, etc, before it would become the game it promised that it was going to be.

 

On the other hand, this can't be said for all games like that. a lot of these games, however, also suffer badly from design issues that affect the whole game - fixing them would mean you would have to pretty much redesign the entire game. As much potential as I saw the game have, I would rather design a whole new game with the ideas that games like Lufia: Ruins of Lore presented rather than redesign pretty much the whole game, rewriting the whole story and fixing all the bugs the game has on top of all that. While it would be more costly, it would not only present a lot fewer constraints (eg. working around a half-baked buggy game, using an existing IP that doesn't fit the game well, etc.) and it would shake off the expectations one would have of the game based off the IP that was slapped onto it in an effort for it to sell.


Edited by Orithan, 17 September 2017 - 08:08 AM.

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#7 Cukeman

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:08 AM

I can agree with that Orithan, but starting from scratch is a whole different ball game. The purpose of modifying and refining is more of an experiment in converting junk into treasure. If you throw away those constraints it's no longer the same intellectual experiment.

 

One is like seeing what you can build using just legos, while the other is using a 3D-printer to create anything at all.


Edited by Cukeman, 17 September 2017 - 09:08 AM.


#8 Anthus

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:02 AM

tumblr_owf8ziNNaa1rkbmkso1_250.png

/me runs but then falls through the ground for no reason.

Fixed that for you ;)

There's a lot of games that could benefit even from really small changes. Look at the 3DS Zelda remakes. They're essentially the same great games but subtle changes to streamline certain things like item management, and faster, skippable text, and consistent framerates, make them more enjoyable than their console counterparts. I'm just waiting for that 20 year special edition of OoT for the the switch next year. :P

If Sonic Heroes controls worked 100% of the time, I'd even be fine with the level design. Maybe add some more paths in some of the grinding levels, but yeah.


Edit: So some people actually are trying to remake Sonic 06. http://www.dsogaming...e-for-download/

#9 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:56 PM

I thought you guys were talking about doing this with Zelda classic games,

  other different types of games are just kinda up in the air for other genres and developer hacking sites to worry about.

 

On the other hand, Super Mario World is a terrible game when it comes to the quantity of levels before another koopaling castle comes up.

 

I always wanted them to like Extend mario world and fix up that problem and make it as Vast as super mario 3 - that game had so many levels in-between each koopaling and was a very good designed game.

 

Mario world actually lacks the depth mario 3 took, takes away the power collecting system and baby-fies it down to only a secondary power you are aloud to carry.

 

There should have been more levels in-between before you got to Ludwig on the bridge for example and maybe have a Sub zone to go into before getting to his castle too fast. 

 

There were too many secret-levels that flew apart from the actual route of the game that seemed unnecessary to the actual flow of levels that came up each time. This made the game feel short and small compared to mario 3 and yet felt unfinished to me. When you look into the actual rom of the game, there is so much extra level room for improvement and concepts in the TESTING area maps of the game.

 

So Somebody do the favor of Designing - Super Mario World - +Extended


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 18 September 2017 - 01:01 AM.

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#10 Cukeman

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:44 AM

Interesting, I've always had a hard time deciding if SMB3 or SMW was better, they're that close in my eyes.


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#11 Anthus

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:54 AM

Interesting, I've always had a hard time deciding if SMB3 or SMW was better, they're that close in my eyes.

 

I ask myself this a lot too. I've never really been able to say I like one more than the other. If I really, really had to choose, I'd pick SMB3. The main reason being, I like the jump physics better, there are more power-ups, and a much wider level variety (even of most of them became tropey areas in later games). World is great, don't get me wrong. That's the one I really grew up with, and I like the multiple exits, and more focused levels, but I dunno, Mario 3 just does it for me. They're both great, and I wouldn't want to pick one over the other, but if I was on a desert island, and could only take one classic 2D Mario, that'd be it. But, I might try to get the All-Stars version onto this console inhabited desert island somehow.

 

edit: FWIW, World was slightly rushed to meet a deadline. The team had ample time to work on Mario 3, however.


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#12 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 05:59 AM

Super Mario Bros. 3 is superior to Super Mario World simply because it has a superior camera. It keeps you horizontally centered where as World gives you this little bit of leeway of movement before the camera snaps to a new position where you're centered and then follows you, supposedly this is to make it easier to jump on stuff but I find it's too jarring when it suddenly decides to latch the camera on to your position and makes it easy to over/undershoot a target in situations where you're at a stand still/not speed running.


Edited by Nicholas Steel, 25 October 2017 - 05:59 AM.



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