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Can you force ZC to use an ALSA server for MIDI?

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#1 Alestance

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:36 PM

I know I read elsewhere that it was possible to force ZC to use MIDI cards through some Allegro configuration editing. Can it be forced to route into a sequencer port on an ALSA server?


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#2 Alestance

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 05:46 AM

Is there any way to configure Zelda Classic to not use the DIGIMID driver that comes with allegro on Linux? Any way to use timidity at all?

 

DIGIMID is garbage. It only has around 16-32 note polyphony and screws up pitchblending. Basically, most MIDIs don't work.


Edited by Alestance, 17 April 2015 - 05:47 AM.

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#3 Avaro

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:43 AM

What about this topic? http://www.purezc.ne...showtopic=48032 There's also a link to an old tutorial you once made. Doesn't it work? I have no idea if it does. xD



#4 Magi_Hero

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:16 AM

Avataro, that thread was discussing MIDI in Windows, not a UNIX based system.

Alestance,

All I found was this but I feel like you tried it:
https://wiki.allegro...h_ALSA_raw_MIDI

#5 Alestance

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 10:42 AM

Avataro, that thread was discussing MIDI in Windows, not a UNIX based system.

Alestance,

All I found was this but I feel like you tried it:
https://wiki.allegro...h_ALSA_raw_MIDI

I appreciate the effort, but I've come across that already, and it hasn't been successful.



#6 Saffith

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 01:37 PM

As far as I know, that's the only option. I haven't gotten it to work either, though.

#7 Alestance

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:07 PM

As far as I know, that's the only option. I haven't gotten it to work either, though.

Wasn't it said a while back that ZC is compiled with it's own version of Allegro?

 

I'm not a programmer but, there are allegro libraries that have built in support for ALSA and JACK. Could ZC be compiled to reference the on-board allegro libraries?



#8 Saffith

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:47 PM

We use some patches in Allegro, but getting it to use a new MIDI interface is a pretty big undertaking, and, honestly, I wouldn't know where to begin.
Aside from Alsa and DIGMID, Allegro's only other MIDI driver on Unix is OSS. ZC isn't built with that, but I can do it if you want to try it out. I expect it's no easier to get it to work, though.

#9 Gleeok

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:52 AM

I've been toying with bypassing allegro sound completely and using FMOD instead for ZC. Currently .nsf/emu music and streams (ogg, mp3, etc.) work, but midis do not. This is because midis in zc are overly complicated though, not because it's not easy playing them with FMOD.

I'll put up the sources for it at some point.

#10 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 02:54 AM

i think before in the past i like , .. dragged a midi to my Itunes and converted it into an MP3 somehow,

so that it just sounded the very same.

I can't remember if is still possible though.
'otherwords, .. just force ZC to use MIDI cards through some Allegro configuration editing program right?


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 21 April 2015 - 02:56 AM.


#11 Alestance

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:04 AM

We use some patches in Allegro, but getting it to use a new MIDI interface is a pretty big undertaking, and, honestly, I wouldn't know where to begin.
Aside from Alsa and DIGMID, Allegro's only other MIDI driver on Unix is OSS. ZC isn't built with that, but I can do it if you want to try it out. I expect it's no easier to get it to work, though.

From what I understand, no one uses OSS anymore. It'd probably be a waste of time to do that, especially given the lengths you have to go just to test if it works. Only to find out it doesn't, or you have to compile OSS yourself, which could end up causing more problems then solving anyway.

 

i think before in the past i like , .. dragged a midi to my Itunes and converted it into an MP3 somehow,

so that it just sounded the very same.

I can't remember if is still possible though.
'otherwords, .. just force ZC to use MIDI cards through some Allegro configuration editing program right?

Doesn't work that way on Linux. I can easily just convert the MIDIs to MP3s. Timidity has a command line function to do that and it's zero effort. But MP3s don't loop properly in ZC. There's no controlling how they loop. And there's a gap between loops. It's almost as grating to my aesthetic sense as having the built-in allegro MIDI driver.

 

Anyway, I know I'm whining now, but even Allegro should have a better default MIDI controller by now. It's 2015. The HD MIDI standard is almost ready.


Edited by Alestance, 21 April 2015 - 03:05 AM.


#12 Saffith

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 04:46 PM

You can change the soundfont it uses, at least. Just replace samplesoundset/patches.dat. The packaged one was picked for copyright reasons, not because it sounds good. You can't pick any one you like - Allegro will butcher a lot of them - but you can certainly find one that sounds better than Unison. I use this one, made from Reality GM/GS: https://www.dropbox....zr8/patches.dat

#13 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 05:01 PM

From what I understand, no one uses OSS anymore. It'd probably be a waste of time to do that, especially given the lengths you have to go just to test if it works. Only to find out it doesn't, or you have to compile OSS yourself, which could end up causing more problems then solving anyway.

 

Doesn't work that way on Linux. I can easily just convert the MIDIs to MP3s. Timidity has a command line function to do that and it's zero effort. But MP3s don't loop properly in ZC. There's no controlling how they loop. And there's a gap between loops. It's almost as grating to my aesthetic sense as having the built-in allegro MIDI driver.

 

Anyway, I know I'm whining now, but even Allegro should have a better default MIDI controller by now. It's 2015. The HD MIDI standard is almost ready.

 

 

MP3's do loop properly/repeatedly.'  - you just have to have the latest ZC engine + a program that splices the MP3 tracks to blend them in with the very beginning of an MP3 so it sounds like they repeat without them getting cut off oddly ..* It's that simple.


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 22 April 2015 - 09:08 PM.


#14 Alestance

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 05:12 PM

You can change the soundfont it uses, at least. Just replace samplesoundset/patches.dat. The packaged one was picked for copyright reasons, not because it sounds good. You can't pick any one you like - Allegro will butcher a lot of them - but you can certainly find one that sounds better than Unison. I use this one, made from Reality GM/GS: https://www.dropbox....zr8/patches.dat

Oh, yeah, I know. I have my own replacement, but you still have the glaring problem of 16-note polyphony (which breaks most MIDIs people use these days) as well as the pitch-bending being completely off-kilter (which also breaks most MIDIs people use.) Load up a MIDI of the LTTP Hyrule Castle and listen to that to see what I mean. 

 

Even with a good soundset, MIDIs just sound terrible in Linux for ZC. I'd do WINE and the windows version of Zelda Classic, but for whatever reason, WINE won't send MIDI data to ALSA either.

 

MP3's do loop properly - you just have to have the latest ZC engine + a program that splices the MP3 tracks to blend them in with the beginning of an MP3 so it sounds like they repeat without them getting cut off oddly ..*  

How does that help when playing other people's quests?


Edited by Alestance, 22 April 2015 - 05:13 PM.


#15 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:09 PM


Oh, yeah, I know. I have my own replacement, but you still have the glaring problem of 16-note polyphony (which breaks most MIDIs people use these days) as well as the pitch-bending being completely off-kilter (which also breaks most MIDIs people use.) Load up a MIDI of the LTTP Hyrule Castle and listen to that to see what I mean. 

 

Even with a good soundset, MIDIs just sound terrible in Linux for ZC. I'd do WINE and the windows version of Zelda Classic, but for whatever reason, WINE won't send MIDI data to ALSA either.

 

How does that help when playing other people's quests?

 

 

 

Oh, // oks, i see nows ..* 

 

I guess people need to realize midi's aren't always dependable things these days.

 

I'd like to hear example youtube videos: other people's computer midi's how they sound different in Zelda classic compared to other PCs/laptops/notepads at least; just for an example of this problem in general to raise more awareness of these difficult issues.


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 22 April 2015 - 09:14 PM.




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