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#16 Anthus

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE(UBP @ Mar 25 2005, 12:40 PM)
It's to protect the children, because it's because children are imitative - they see something and they want to do exactly what they see. I mean, little kids looking at porn - think about that. They learn far more rapidly than an older person and retain many childhood memories until the day they die. Little kids look at this board sometimes (which is ridiculous, really) but still, it's much more pleasant to have a nice conversation without "@$%@ YOU!!!!" every 3 words

I can see your point, though I may not agree with it. I feel that censorship should be left to the parent. I think we should be able to choose what to censor, not have someone elso do it for us. Isn't that what this country is all about? Yeah, we don't want a three year old to watch porn, but what about the other 40 million people? Maybe parents should step up and be parents, and moniter there kids a little more closely. Maybe the should get a real babysitter instead of the TV.

Abou gay marriage. I have heard both sides of the issue, and I can see both sides points. One side is: People shouldn't be denided the right to marrige. We have the right to pursue happiness. And yes, there is the other side: No! Marriage is a sacred thing between a man and a woman, it isn't in the bible...

Okay, bassically this is saying, if your not a christian, you should not have the option of marriage. What about Jews, Buhdist, what about any other religion? Should they too be denided the right to marriage? Fine, maybe gays should be aloud to get married in a christian church, but what about a court room? what about a greek orthidox church (highly ulikely). Why should a small group of people be denided just because of one religion saying its wrong? We all keep controdictiong outselves. Christians say its wrong for one gruop, but its okay for others. Yes, I think gays should be aloud to get married, and if I were old enough to vote, I would have voted against issue one.

I know we are getting off of the yopic, but this is good!

#17 Freedom

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:58 PM

I already have the constitution.


The fact that you think though that you have any real freedoms is pretty ignorant, and to only battle to have the freedoms to be obseen is even more rediculas.
You are a slave to your goverment regardless of what country you live in.
Don't think so?
Try to hunt without a licence.
Try to fish without a license.
Try to work without paying over 50% of what you make to the government.

In other words, try to exist outside their control and see what happens.

#18 Anthus

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 01:54 PM

A "Slave" of the government may be a little harsh. We do have a great deal of freedoms, and taxes, as much as they suck, are just part of life. This is how the government gets there money. Plus, you get at least half of what they take back. Its called a tax refund.

You and I obviously have way different views of how the world works and thats ok.

No, I'm not ignorant for believig in our freedoms. If we had no "real" freedoms, do you think that this site would exist? Do you think that you and I cold have our different belifes? We would al have to conform, to one god, one form of government etc.. It would be old Iraq all over again. I think it is sad that you don't understand how lucky you really are to live here. We have more freedoms, and rights then one could comprehend. You know, if we had no freedoms, I would probably be killed for speaking out against god.

I have my mind made up, and I refuse to change my opinions just because god says so! Well, I got news for ya! Sorry, but, now read this carefully there is NO God!!! I'm sorry, but I ABSOLUTLY refuse to believe in some mighty omnipotent force that know one has even seen. If god loves us so much then why would he create other religions, people, and countries? Why would he create people like me, or a non-believer? Why does he let so many peple die, and suffer in wars, and why does he let so many peple die from terminal illness? Why would he even create any sickness?

What, Is this a game to him? Does he want us to suffer?! There are some questions that the bibble doesn't answer!

One more thing. We need a license to hunt and fish, so wedon't have a buncs of inexpiereanced dumb asses running around in the woods with guns!

Edited by tobias_daboi, 25 March 2005 - 02:28 PM.


#19 Mad Dog

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE(Jaivaz @ Mar 25 2005, 10:52 AM)
if they disagree and it goes against some fairy-tale book, they get mad.

Fairy Tale book? I think it funny that you are a Satanist, but completely disregard the one who put him in his current position. Even Satan shudders in the presence of God. I also don't know why you worship a being with limited power, and wishes only for pain of all of his followers, while there is one that has limitless power, and offers eternal life? But if you want to argue, pm me.

If I get into trouble for this, great, I'm actually looking forward to it.

#20 Ben

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE
Okay, bassically this is saying, if your not a christian, you should not have the option of marriage.


Believe it or not, it is a sin according to the Bible to marry a non-Christian, especially if you are.

QUOTE
have my mind made up, and I refuse to change my opinions just because god says so! Well, I got news for ya! Sorry, but, now read this carefully there is NO God!!! I'm sorry, but I ABSOLUTLY refuse to believe in some mighty omnipotent force that know one has even seen. If god loves us so much then why would he create other religions, people, and countries? Why would he create people like me, or a non-believer? Why does he let so many peple die, and suffer in wars, and why does he let so many peple die from terminal illness? Why would he even create any sickness?


Sickness and death stem from the first sin ever committed. Thanks to Adam, we no longer live forever and do wrong things.

Also, God gave people free will to do what they want to see if they will follow him or not. He allows things to happen, because they are part of the master plan -- no one knows what this is, because it's perfect.

And my faith is the evidence of things unseen. God exists.

#21 Mad Dog

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 10:55 PM

QUOTE(UBP @ Mar 25 2005, 09:49 PM)
And my faith is the evidence of things unseen. God exists.

Thank you. And if anyone wants to "argue" religion, I'm glad to take off the gloves via pm.

And about the gay-marriage thing: Even before I was born again, I still felt strongly against this. Certain body parts were made for certain body functions. And why do you think it's insulting to call someone a homo? I know several people who will call something 'gay' if they think it's stupid.

And several people tell me that even the greeks were gay. Well yeah, but they also built temples to a man who married his sister. Would you all want to become insestious because the greeks were? I don't think so.

#22 Anthus

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 11:07 PM

I dont think we will get in trouble for disscussing this, as long as we keep it calm, and dont flame, we should be okay.

I can't really think of anything else to argue. We aren't achiving anything byt this, if anyting all we are di9ng is destroying friendships, or any grounds for one.

With that said, well, I guess I'm done.

I will not change my opinions no matter how hard you try to pursuad me. My mind is made up and it will continue to be that way. I am no expert on the Christian faith, so I guess it is unfair of me to jugde it based on partial information. But who cares we all have our beliefes and that is that.

How did we go from the issue of censorship, to disproving god?

Whats with the biggotry? Why are people so against gay marriage? What is so wrong about two people wanting to share there lives together and be happy? If god wants you to choose your own path, and be happy, why can't you get married to the same sex?

Edited by tobias_daboi, 25 March 2005 - 11:13 PM.


#23 Mad Dog

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE(tobias_daboi @ Mar 25 2005, 10:07 PM)
How did we go from the issue of censorship, to disproving god?

If god wants you to choose your own path, and be happy, why can't you get married to the same sex?

First Question: Jaivas' first post, and I quoted it above.

Second Question: (Christian answer here.)

You shall not lie with a man as with a woman. It is an abomination.
~ Leviticus, 18:22

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood is upon them
~Leviticus, 20:13
(of course, they had more restrictions on their people than we do today)

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
~Romans, 1:26


And interestingly enough, I got this from a link in Jaivas' sig, supposedly used to go against Christians, but he unwittingly helped me out here. I doubt I would have found these as soon as I did on my own. Thank you Jaivas.

#24 Archibaldo

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 11:26 PM

I think censorship is bulls***. It is protecting kids from the real world. If you shield kids from "bad" things their whole childhood, they will freak out when they encounter them in the real world. We go through so much effort censoring things and then the kids go to highschool and learn all this stuff. We should put our time censoring things to better use. So what if a kid sees a nipple on T.V.? He's going to see one anyway when he turns 14 and gains access to the internet. And all the bad words out there he's going to hear when he gets to highschool.

I don't really see whats so taboo about bad words. They are so overly used they've lost all meaning. It's like calling someone "purple". It doesn't mean anything.

#25 Anthus

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 11:43 PM

Our country is not ran by the bibble, it is ran by the constitution. The line, "A man shall not lie with a man as he lies with a woman--" doesn't even make sense! I know it is from the bibble, I've heard it before, but it still makes absolutly no sence whatsoever.

Again, the bibble contridicts itself. It was stated that god wants us to choose our own path, correct? So why is this path (that we are natrually born into) so wrong? Why are going to go to hell if your gay?

It pisses me off how people can be so blind sighted!

Gays are looked down upon becuase they are the minoroty. It is human nature to look down on those different from ourselves, espiacialy if they are a minority! This is why geeks, and dorks are looked down on. If there were more nerds then sluts, and jocks, then the nerds would be cool. Same thing with gays. If there were more gay people then straight people, I'm sure whoever wrote the bibble 4000 years ago would make being straight be a sin.

Here is a scenerio:
I'm gay, and I'm a human. I am a christian created by god. I'm am a loyal christian, and I try my best to avoid commeting any sins. The only thing wrong with me was that I was created as a homosexual. So, the bibble says that If you are "perfect" in every other way, you are still damned if your born gay. How fair is that lord? I'm a near perfect cretaion, but you made me with a flaw, and now I'm going to hell for you! Thanks a lot you power hungry-- Struck dead for speaking out.

Its really stupid. Let me clear on thing up. I mentioned tis before. You do not choose to be gay, you are born that way. Near 95% of homosexuals are born that way. The other five percent choose, but this is a lot less common, and typically lead to bisexualality, which is also okay.

Edited by tobias_daboi, 25 March 2005 - 11:47 PM.


#26 Ben

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 12:26 AM

You don't understand - even if you sin, you can still get to heaven. At least since the crucifixion.

The Bible does not contradict itself, either. You are free to choose your own path, even if it is wrong.

I am not against gays (I don't believe they are born that way - they have a choice) but I do believe it is wrong to be homosexual. That said, I do know a couple people who have made the decision to be gay and are pretty much the same as everyone else. What they are doing is wrong, and if they won't stop doing it, then I won't stop preaching. icon_wink.gif

#27 Hero_of_Hyrule

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 12:29 AM

I don't know when this whole "Gay Gene" thing started, but it is not true. You can read any scientific article on Gay Genes and they will all tell you that science has never been able to prove such genes actually exists. Homosexuals want people to believe that they can't help who they are so they will get civil rights...and this whole Gay Gene thing has spread to the mass media which now spreads it to the people. But the fact is, homosexuals can help who they are...they CHOOSE to be gay.

Tobias_daboi is right in asking why God would make someone gay and then send them to hell for it. The answer to that is...He wouldn't. He didn't make them gay...they weren't born that way.

#28 Ben

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 07:10 AM

*renames topic*

There, now keep talking. I don't have anything to add until someone on an opposing viewpoint says something.

#29 IaN

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 08:16 AM

QUOTE(Hero_of_Hyrule @ Mar 26 2005, 01:59 AM)
I don't know when this whole "Gay Gene" thing started, but it is not true. You can read any scientific article on Gay Genes and they will all tell you that science has never been able to prove such genes actually exists. Homosexuals want people to believe that they can't help who they are so they will get civil rights...and this whole Gay Gene thing has spread to the mass media which now spreads it to the people. But the fact is, homosexuals can help who they are...they CHOOSE to be gay.

Tobias_daboi is right in asking why God would make someone gay and then send them to hell for it. The answer to that is...He wouldn't. He didn't make them gay...they weren't born that way.

God made Adam and Eve. Not me or you. Just Adam and Eve. We were born from the sexual reproduction of Adam and Eve, and have since genetically changed, even ever so slightly. One could easily argue it a birth "defect", like mental retardation. You can't chose to be gay, you are in fact born that way. You can't just chose which sex' s pheramones (sp? It's been a while since I've used the word) you want to respond to, becuase that is in fact out of your control. You can't chose which women you are attracted to, your body tells you which you are attracted to, just as homosexuals can't chose either.

You also need to remember that God didn't sit down with a cup of coffee and write the bibble. People wrote it, no matter how spiritually guided or influenced they were. They wrote this in his name, but with very humane ideas. Think back 50 years, when people were discriminated against because they were black. The only difference here is that it wasn't written in a religious text. Had it of been, do you think african-american people would be welcomed as much as they are? No matter what you say, people were the authors, and people fear the unknown. If they did not know gay to be a part of their normal lifestyle, then they feared it, and therefore made it a sin.

#30 Anthus

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 11:36 AM

Thank you, IaN,

I know that God didn't write the bibble, poepld did.

I still don't see why people don't just accept people for they are, or were "created" as. Accordong to the riligion, people aren't people supposed to accept peope no matter what is "wrong" with them? This proves my point, that the bibble does infact, contradict itself many times.

In short it is saying:

- If your "created" as a homosexual, you will go to hell.

- People must be accepted for you they are wrong or right.

Is it just me, or do those to lines seem to cancel each other out? I know that those aren't exact quotes from the bibble, but that is the message it is sending out, or atleast the message that I can intturpret from it.

Think about this as if you weren't against the whole gay thing.
Im not gay, but I have friends who are, and they are normal people, so why should they be denided the right to pursue happiness? Don't you even tell me that they can find another way to be happy bcause that is bull****. Everyboy is equal according to the constitution and the bibble, so why are they seen as innequal? You can reword that any way you want to use it against me, but t proves that not everything makes sense. And don't say that "well, God doesn't like gays becauase they are not part of his "perfect" plan."

There is yet another contridction: (not an exact quote)

- Nobody is perfect.

- God is perfect.

If the world had no religions, or no religions that showd any discrimination of any type, we wouldn't even have this problem.


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