Jump to content

Photo

Pokemon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#31 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Location:Australia

Posted 23 July 2018 - 05:54 PM

Look at it this way.

The target audience they are catering to, players who only knew of Pokemon Go and young kids, may need additional help to guarantee that the learn the basic concepts of Pokemon. While one might argue that Brock quickly teaches the player of the importance of the type chart, because that worked in Gen I, there will be people who don't get the message and continue going at him over and over again to no avail. By forcing requirements on the player, this forces them to learn the importance of the type chart and the importance of keeping your pokemon trained.

As handholdy as it is, consider that maybe we are not the target audience before jumping at Gamefreak in anger. I am not getting the game either because of things like this, but I'm not ranting and raving over it.



#32 HylianGlaceon

HylianGlaceon

    Magus

  • Members
  • Location:Whatever dimension is between Sinnoh and Hyrule...

Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:00 PM

Look at it this way.

The target audience they are catering to, players who only knew of Pokemon Go and young kids, may need additional help to guarantee that the learn the basic concepts of Pokemon. While one might argue that Brock quickly teaches the player of the importance of the type chart, because that worked in Gen I, there will be people who don't get the message and continue going at him over and over again to no avail. 

With the starters getting Double Kick, I have to wonder just how dumb they think some people are.  :sweat:

 

Even though I agree with the target audience, this isn't going to prepare them to get into the main series by removing some strategy and dumbing down the game mechanics here.



#33 Cukeman

Cukeman

    "Tra la la, look for Sahasrahla. ... ... ..."

  • Banned
  • Location:Hyrule/USA

Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:51 PM

there will be people who don't get the message and continue going at him over and over again to no avail.

 

I feel like this is what word of mouth and internet searches are for. Pokemon is a social game, surely you can just ask someone you know what to do (or go online).


Edited by Cukeman, 23 July 2018 - 11:52 PM.


#34 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Location:Australia

Posted 24 July 2018 - 12:03 AM

With the starters getting Double Kick, I have to wonder just how dumb they think some people are.  :sweat:

 

Even though I agree with the target audience, this isn't going to prepare them to get into the main series by removing some strategy and dumbing down the game mechanics here.

 

It does help to prepare them because by the end of the game they will know the basic concepts of Pokemon and be able to apply them to the main series games when they get to them later. I like to think of this game being a "My first Pokemon game" kinda deal - in this case, watering down the game and the concepts helps to achieve this goal.


Edited by Orithan, 24 July 2018 - 12:05 AM.


#35 klop422

klop422

    Guess I'm full of monsters and treasure

  • Members
  • Real Name:Not George
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 24 July 2018 - 05:04 PM

Again, I have to bring up Final Fantasy Mystic Quest - an attempt at making an audience interested in your product who were not already interested. Sure, back then, its release was based on insulting assumptions about the non-Japanese game market, but it turned out to be an awful game because they dumbed everything down so much.

Fine, this isn't going to be a game aimed at the genwunners or those who came on later. But surely they should still be trying to go for the largest possible audience - i.e. not making it a game for babies.

To be fair, I'm probably biased, as I've known RPG mechanics since I first played Pokémon Pearl at around 9 years old (probably before that) - around 10 years ago - so I don't entirely remember how long I took to learn them. But I worked it out with the in-game tutorials before I was 10 years old.

 

The other issue is - as I said - forcing you to reach checkpoints before fighting gym leaders is forced grinding. That's gonna make people want to come back to Pokémon(!) A better way to deal with that is to give you a free grass/water Pokémon before fighting Brock. Still hand-holdy, but less so.

Or they make the gym guide more obvious - maybe if you lose a few times against Brock he actually stops you before you enter the gym and gives you tips. Both of these feel like better ideas than literally stopping progress - as if Brock himself isn't already an artificial roadblock in himself.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I see why they're doing what they're doing, but I don't think they're going around it in a good way.



#36 Cukeman

Cukeman

    "Tra la la, look for Sahasrahla. ... ... ..."

  • Banned
  • Location:Hyrule/USA

Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:11 PM

I liked Mystic Quest okay, but I didn't expect anything going into it. If I expected a standard FF game I'm sure I'd be disappointed. MQ's worst aspects are just some oversimplicity, nothing interesting text-wise and a bit of blandness in some aspects. I did like having some action mechanics in the overworld and there is some nice music and visuals. Just nothing all that special or memorable.



#37 Adem

Adem

    -

  • Members
  • Real Name:Anything except rap and country.
  • Location:New England

Posted 26 November 2018 - 09:28 AM

Y'all.

 

I went into this gaming experience with the lowest of low expectations, and I am having a grand fucking time.

 

The catch mechanic is annoying, but we all knew it would be. However, to my own surprise, I haven't found it detracting from the overall gameplay experience. The catch combos and other nuances of the system make it somewhat interesting, and add a feeling of newness to a game I've played through a hundred times. (With that said, I'm looking forward to having traditional captures back in future titles.)

 

The partner Pokémon stuff is oversold, but it's cute. The graphics are great, and the cutscenes are pleasing to watch.

 

GO Park is...aggressively fine. It's annoying having to capture Pokémon for a second time, and using tons of Pokéballs on Pokémon that you technically already own seems silly. Nicknames also do not transfer, but you can rename them once they're in your box. That said, it has been nice, because none of my friends have Let's Go, Eevee. I wasn't sure what I was going to do about version exclusives but, luckily, I had them all in GO from when I played it awhile back.

 

The gym leader designs are great, combining anime designs with classic Red/Blue poses and interactions. The nods to the older games are fun, but continuity is a bit lacking.

Spoiler

 

I'm currently in Fuschia City. I'd post my team, but I've actually been changing it pretty constantly in an effort to evolve more Pokémon and complete the Dex.

 

The game sure isn't perfect, but it has well exceeded my expectations. Has anyone else picked it up yet?


Edited by Adem, 26 November 2018 - 09:30 AM.

  • Daniel and Matthew like this

#38 Daniel

Daniel

    v My Godess

  • Members

Posted 26 November 2018 - 09:05 PM

I agree, I went into the game with low expectations as well. The catching mechanic is actually better than I anticipated as I hate motion controls, luckily playing in handheld mode completely fixes that issue. And handheld mode is my preferred way anyway.

 

I hope the next traditional title keeps certain aspects, mainly the Pokemon being visible instead of random encounters and the ability to have Pokemon walk with you. 

 

Overall the game is  great and certainly much better than I expected. I only got it because I figured it would at the very least be good to experience Kanto in a new way. Glad I did.


  • Adem likes this

#39 Norzan

Norzan

    Adept

  • Members

Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM

I absolutely loathe that wild pokemon are now visible on the field. This is fine in RPGs where you have a set group of characters to play and level, but in this franchise it just feels horribly wrong.

 

 

The excitement of finding pokemon is completely gone when i can just run around until i get what i want. I honestly hope this isn't in the next main series games.

 

 

 

Honestly, the fact that abilities are not present in this game severely dampened whatever excitement i could muster for it. Abilities are great, why remove them? Firered and Leafgreen kept them, along with with everything else Ruby and Sapphire introduced.


Edited by Norzan, 26 November 2018 - 10:54 PM.

  • Daniel likes this

#40 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Location:Australia

Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:05 AM

Random encounters are a highly outdated archaic system originating from a time when that was both what systems could handle and it was the norm. It is not fun walking five steps and encountering a Zubat or other worthless pokemon every time. Most RPGs I know nowadays ditch the random encounter system and replace it with an overworld encounter system, even from franchises which originally took the random encounter route. Its about time Pokemon follows suit and removes them too.

Besides, it makes literally no sense seeing something like a Tauros or Chansey popping out of grass which is waist high at most.

 

The game doesn't interest me very much because it looks boring as all heck and I rather a game where you could battle wild pokemon, have abilities and held items. But I wouldn't pop up onto the forums only to complain about it with a weird criticism. :shrug:


Edited by Orithan, 27 November 2018 - 12:06 AM.

  • Daniel likes this

#41 The Satellite

The Satellite

    May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce.

  • Members
  • Real Name:Michael
  • Pronouns:He / Him

Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:35 AM

Seeing wild Pokemon on the field is absolutely an amazing feature and should stay in future installments. Helps to make the world feel even more alive. Also helps that I can avoid the ones I don't want if I'm not up for it, not that that stops them from running into me or me into them if the space is cramped enough. This, along with the return of following Pokemon (with some of their own unique quirks, no less!), is the best new feature this game has added.

 

Anyway, I just beat the Elite Four and honestly I had a blast with the game on the whole. Only real negatives to me are the following:

 

- The restriction to Gen I Pokemon. Not even the additional forms introduced in later gens? Yet Alolan forms are fair game.

- The arbitrary gating at gyms. Just let me go challenge them on my own power, dammit. Not that I ever failed a gate, but it's a silly addition.

- I end up scratching my head that this game is somehow both a remake and a sequel to the original games. Gonna spoiler this stuff just in case:

Spoiler

 

That aside, this game was way better than I expected it to be. I would actually love them to give this treatment to the Johto games, though maybe incorporate some improvements. For starters, just bringing back abilities alone would be nice. There's not a lot that needs to be improved, though I'd hope such a sequel would retain the Kanto revisits. Oh, and admittedly some better balancing of the late game (i.e. wild Pokemon levels near the Elite Four as well as the Kanto gym leaders) might be nice. I don't know that said sequels would ever happen but I'd welcome them with open arms.

 

To be honest, I didn't dislike the lack of wild battles. Felt a bit more streamlined actually, although I wonder why we couldn't use a pro controller. Or even dual joy-cons. Game works just fine in handheld mode with both attached, and I prefer its method of capture; the problem is, I far prefer playing in TV mode, so I only used it a handful of times. Playing with the Pokeball is a fun novelty but it's honestly a little awkward. If I had a pro controller option, that's all I'd use.

 

Either way, I had a good time. A hypothetical Johto game probably wouldn't come until 2020 at the earliest, due to Gen VIII next year, but if it happens, I'm completely looking forward to it. If a Sinnoh remake doesn't happen first. Now I'm just wondering how different the development teams between Gen VIII and Let's Go were...


  • Daniel and Adem like this

#42 Norzan

Norzan

    Adept

  • Members

Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:24 AM

Random encounters are a highly outdated archaic system originating from a time when that was both what systems could handle and it was the norm. It is not fun walking five steps and encountering a Zubat or other worthless pokemon every time. Most RPGs I know nowadays ditch the random encounter system and replace it with an overworld encounter system, even from franchises which originally took the random encounter route. Its about time Pokemon follows suit and removes them too.

Besides, it makes literally no sense seeing something like a Tauros or Chansey popping out of grass which is waist high at most.

Seriously, are we still using this crappy argument of "it's archaic, therefore it needs to go away"? This is easily one of the laziest ways to criticize anything. And it might not be fun to you, but it's fun to me and many others. Don't think you're talking for everyone else. The excitement of finding pokemon is completely gone when i can just run around in a circle until i get what i want.

 

Random battles are just as a valid system as everything else. It's not "archaic" and it doesn't need to go away because devs couldn't use anything else back in the 80s. It has its merits even now.

 

And seriously, the franchise has been using it for 20 years and now it decides to ditch them when other franchises have done it as far as back as 10 years ago. They used it because it makes sense for this franchise.

 

I have been bored with this franchise for around two years now, didn't even bothered with Ultra Sun and Moon. The prospect of having random wild pokemon battles removed and i have seen some people actually wanting the catching mechanic of this game to be in the main series, just probably puts a final nail in the coffin for me. I knew this Pokemon Go crap would start to seep in further into the franchise when it was much better as a game you play on your phone.


Edited by Norzan, 27 November 2018 - 10:32 AM.


#43 klop422

klop422

    Guess I'm full of monsters and treasure

  • Members
  • Real Name:Not George
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:08 AM

I imagine there's a compromise to be had with wild battles. Some of the fun of searching for particular Pokémon is the fact that it's really unlikely for you to find one. This completely vanishes if you can see them on the overworld.

 

I guess it could be done similarly if you make the spawn rates have these chances, but I imagine when you're looking for those, you'd have to run around to see if the one you're looking for is there, leave, and come back, which sounds much less fun than stepping back and forth in a patch of grass and running from encounters you don't want. And you can always buy repels (which I'm sure they could use for overworld-seeable Pokémon too). You also lose potential for a lot of interesting mechanics like Poké-Radar and rustling grass.

In short, I don't see how usable Overworld encounters are for the main series, but if they're really fun, then hopefully they'll be reused in Let's Go Gen II or whatever.

 

I've not played any and not seen much, but the continuity stuff seems really weird. That said, RE Champions, my understanding is that in Gen I there isn't a formal champion; it just so happens that Blue beat the Elite Four just before Red did (no dialogue throughout the games suggests there is a champion at all, and Blue, and Lance tells you you're the Champion when you beat him, before telling you that Blue beat him first), so formalising it likely wouldn't happen for another couple years (where Lance takes the title).

Other than that, none of it really makes sense, since all it does is take away Red's accomplishments.

 

Other thing that I've heard of that I like is that the Game Corner is back. Not with slot machines, but arcade machines. You can argue all you want about gambling in Pokémon (although I'm sure in the decade since they stopped properly doing them everything's been said), but this gives me hope for the future, at least in this one aspect.



#44 The Satellite

The Satellite

    May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce.

  • Members
  • Real Name:Michael
  • Pronouns:He / Him

Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:22 PM

The excitement of finding pokemon is completely gone when i can just run around in a circle until i get what i want.


Sounds no different than running around in tall grass until I get what I want, this just cuts out all the time-wasting randoms I run away from. :shrug:


  • Adem likes this

#45 Norzan

Norzan

    Adept

  • Members

Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:26 PM

The difference being that YOU pick what pokemon you get and not what the game wants to give you. Giant difference here. Leaving up to the player removes whatever excitement you could have when looking for pokemon.

 

It goes from "what i'm getting next" to "let me just run around in a circle, wait for the one i want and go for immediately for it when it eventually pops up while ignore everything else around it".

 

 

Not to mention this contradicts what inspired the creator to make this series. The excitement of finding new creatures. This is what random battles do because you don't know what you'll get. Putting them in the overworld removes this. The fact that overworld enemies already existed before Pokemon was even made, in games like Earthbound and Chrono Trigger, just proves this was a deliberate design choice.


Edited by Norzan, 27 November 2018 - 12:34 PM.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users