Jump to content

Photo

Yuurei Randomizer 2.0


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
13 replies to this topic

Poll: Feedback time (17 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you likely to play the update when it is released?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.

Opinions on character abilities and Ex1 (See post for details)

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote

#1 Russ

Russ

    Caelan, the Encouraging

  • Administrator
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 28 October 2017 - 09:07 PM

Hey everyone. As you probably know, Yuurei Randomizer is a quest Aevin and I made. Since it was initially released, I've been making quite a few improvements and additions, so I wanted to take the opportunity to list some of the features I'm working on and to gather some feedback. As a quick note, the screenshots below showcase work-in-progress features, so please excuse graphical quirks or ugliness.

First off, character-specific abilities!

YbjGq0C.png

All characters will have their own unique abilities, based off their boss battle behavior. Some, like Rhone's, are fairly straightforward. Others...

LG0tmKC.gif

I make no pretenses about trying to keep things tightly balanced. In addition to some of the more out there abilities, some characters have more practical options, and a handful have unique utility abilities..

Going off that, you might have noticed that the subscreen has been significantly expanded upon. By popular demand, items can now be equipped to L and R as well A and B. With such a large array of items, it helps to have access to several options without frequent trips to the subscreen.

XgzZ2vW.png

Or, ya know, sound metal poison enhance meta. But hey, going off this image as a springboard, you might notice some new enemies. This leads in to the announcement of two new features.

First off, new areas! Lots of people requested a bonus dungeon or something similar. So we decided to go with eight of them! That's an entire map of bonus dungeon material, or a 50% increase in game length. They can be found at nearly any point in the game, provided you have the right items to enter them, and hold powerful spells such as Blink, Thunderwaves, or perhaps even some new abilities... Of course, these items are very heavily guarded, with an array of new enemies, bosses, and maybe even superbosses...

I should mention that the above area is a test area. We're opting to hold off showcasing the new areas for the time being. However, the enemies shown should gave a sampling of what you might expect.

Second up, we're planning on adding a new difficulty mode, super-difficult! For those who feel they've mastered the game, this difficulty should throw new variations of familiar foes your way, keeping you on your toes.

Moving on from there, we're working on making different characters feel unique, through new features such as character abilities. However, certain characters have even more quirks to help them stand out. For example...

RojRAqg.png

Autimecia, the sorceress of sperg, makes her Yuurei debut! In keeping with her chaotic nature, her spell affinities are randomized. Who knows what you'll get? Other characters feature innate abilities that allow them to interact with the labyrinth in unique ways or modify the behavior of certain spells to play to their own strengths.

Finally, I'd like to announce that Yuurei Randomizer will feature a story mode. Several, in fact. The current goal is to have roughly ten stories, each featuring a group of 2-4 characters. For example, the three wisps will all play through the same story, whereas the Yuurei have their own unique story.

So to recap, new mechanics, new story, new characters, new items, new areas, new enemies, new bosses, and more!

Now, I'd like to gather some feedback. First... I understand I'm updating a quest that's been out for quite some time. So I'd like honest opinions. How many people are actually interested in this? Are you likely to give it a whirl when it's released, or would you rather pass?

Second, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the new features. Do they sound good? Bad? Meh? Were you in charge, what would you like to see added?

Lastly, I'd like opinions on how to handle character abilities. Currently, they're mapped to the Ex1 button. However, I've been considering removing the Ex1 slot, and instead treating these abilities as items that can be assigned to the other four buttons as normal. Which would you prefer to see?

Thank you for your time.
  • Espilan, Shane, Eddy and 1 other like this

#2 Naru

Naru

    Magus

  • Members
  • Gender:Unspecified

Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:31 AM

Tis kind of quest belongs to the few ones where I would prefer a randomized game over a normal game. As long as the difficulty is balanced and the story is kept (I haven't played Yuurei yet but I will prefer the non-randomized if the story-mode can't keep up with it). I mean it mustn't be identical but I would highly enjoy something like the following:
- the basic elements of the yuurei story are kept so you can follow it.
- Measurements like important encounters being guaranteed for the relevant charakters (the Yuurei I suppose?)
- encountering different bosses than in the original storyline results in more or less new unique talk.
- as long as the story stays understandable some parts of the story should be missable to favor replayability/randomization.
- the new encounters are a chance to add new small bits of story.
- some character are more story intense than others
In that regard it would also be cool to have instead of a super difficulty a bunch of new charakters that are not or only slightly different versions of existing ones but also weakened versions for higher difficulty. These have nearly no story elements but a higher encounter rate with the new super bosses and some unique threatening talk from these for a hidden small extra story to reward the higher difficulty. Just my 2 cents though and I am bot exactly your taget group anyway.

I would also love to see Hitodama-areas or even the story once more (nostalgia). Again with the chance to use the randomization to add some new story to the beginning story. Just dreaming, I know that this is a unreasonable wish ;P

I really like the additional L and R Buttons. Regarding the EX1, for a controller I wouldn't mind even one more (like a, b, x, y, l, r on the SNEs controller as far as I remember), but without I will have problems with it

#3 Aevin

Aevin

    Lucas, the Reluctant

  • Administrator
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:51 AM

Naru: I'm fully supportive of the Randomizer project, but in addition to the story structure of the main game being a nightmare to implement, past a certain point I feel like certain elements are better retained for the main file. I feel like they both fill a different niche, and personally think Randomizer is best played as replayability for the main game. And when we reach a certain point, I'm not okay with the unique elements of my main file being taken and labeled as a collaboration.

 

Basically, Randomizer is meant as an expanded post-game. Obviously I can't tell anyone which quests to play, but if you're really looking to get to know the characters, I'd recommend taking the more fleshed out story in the core quest first.


  • Naru likes this

#4 Russ

Russ

    Caelan, the Encouraging

  • Administrator
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington

Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:58 AM

but in addition to the story structure of the main game being a nightmare to implement,

This is definitely a big one. Yuurei's plots would be impossible to impliment as-is because they lock you out of parts of the game until the plot is progressed. That would be impossible to do here, where the game HAS to be totally open (without plot barriers, that is) to make sure you can get the items you need to progress. On top of that, in Yuurei, 9 playable characters had stories. For Randomizer, I'm aiming for around 24 (in groups of 3 characters per story). Since I've got to write plenty of new stories anyways, I might as well write new ones for the characters who already had stories in Yuurei. For those nine characters, Randomizer's stories will serve as a (non-canon) sequel of sorts.

In that regard it would also be cool to have instead of a super difficulty a bunch of new charakters that are not or only slightly different versions of existing ones but also weakened versions for higher difficulty. These have nearly no story elements but a higher encounter rate with the new super bosses and some unique threatening talk from these for a hidden small extra story to reward the higher difficulty. Just my 2 cents though and I am bot exactly your taget group anyway.

There will definitely be characters that play slightly different. For example, one that I'm planning will take more damage than other characters, but has an ability to compensate for that. The advantage of a "super-difficult" mode, however, is that it can easily be back-ported into the main Yuurei file and forward into Aevin's new quest, Reikon, because of how the game's enemy spawning mechanics work. That way, the work can benefit three separate quests in the end.

I would also love to see Hitodama-areas or even the story once more (nostalgia). Again with the chance to use the randomization to add some new story to the beginning story. Just dreaming, I know that this is a unreasonable wish ;P

You may just get your wish...
  • Aevin and Naru like this

#5 Eddy

Eddy

    "The Hylian Champion"

  • Database Staff
  • Real Name:Edward
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 05 November 2017 - 12:04 PM

I'll be honest, when the original Yuurei Randomiser came out I just passed on it completely seeing how I beat the original not too long before, so I just couldn't be bothered playing it again. Now reading through all these new updates and features, I'm definitely going to play it when the update is done. There seems to be a lot of new stuff added in, so this could definitely be worth a try. The new features all sound pretty great. I'm a really huge fan of having a whole new map to explore and all new enemies, bosses, etc sound very interesting. Also, as Naru mentioned, some Hitodama areas for nostalgia could be pretty neat to see as well, but isn't necessary of course :P As for your last question, I honestly don't mind what you go for with special attacks, I think either one could work nicely, so I just voted for "Don't care". But yeah, I'll definitely play this when the update is done, this is looking great!


  • Shane and Aevin like this

#6 Eppy

Eppy

    Alisa~

  • Members
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boguslovania

Posted 05 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

Looks like 2018 will be the Year of Yuurei Randomizer for me~


  • Dimentio likes this

#7 Aevin

Aevin

    Lucas, the Reluctant

  • Administrator
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:06 PM

I'd like some opinions from players on this one. I'm considering getting rid of or replacing the "Floor Damage Null" upgrade.

 

I've felt adding this was a mistake since pretty early on. It's handed out at 90 coins, which makes its main purpose to completely trivialize the final area of the game, which relies heavily on damaging and poisonous floors. Furthermore, it's pretty inconsistent because of ZC mechanics - like the fact that it avoids damage from sawblade traps on the floor, while still taking damage from the moving ones. I seem to recall a similar inconsistency with some fires or something, but I don't remember for sure.

 

Now, in designing the bonus areas, we're running into situations where we want to use damage combos to make certain areas as interesting as possible. Having immunity to floor damage eliminates so many design possibilities that we're faced with adding another arbitrary inconsistency - Floor Damage Null just won't work in these areas! For ... reasons. Personally, I absolutely hate arbitrarily disabling rewards the player feels they've earned because we've written ourselves into a corner in terms of design. I feel the inclusion of this upgrade was a mistake, and rather than continue trying to work around it and introducing all these inconsistencies, I'd rather just fix the mistake.

 

However, I'd like to seek some input here first, in case players are ready to take major offense at this. If you guys are set on keeping it, I'm open to that since it's been a part of the game from release. Otherwise, I'd like to remove it from Randomizer, and from the main file if I ever get around to updating again. Do you think it's okay to remove it? Any ideas for an upgrade to replace it?

 

Thanks for any input!


  • Naru likes this

#8 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:44 PM

Keep Floor Damage Null, but tie a Magic cost to it. That way it will let players be able to safely walk on floors, but they can't stay on it for too long because it uses their precious Magic.

If you are fearful of Floor Damage Null trivializing the bonus areas, then perhaps you might want to consider nerfing Float too. It completely trivializes most of the obstacles in Hikaridoki, trivializes the Poison Water in Poison Corridor and Venter Mortis and trivializes the spikes in Rose Garden.



#9 Aevin

Aevin

    Lucas, the Reluctant

  • Administrator
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:42 PM

I worry less about Float for a lot of reasons. It has its own drawbacks, and only exists in the main file for one character, and we have ways around it design-wise. The same can't be said for Floor Damage Null. In fact, I feel like possibilities with Float is one of the things it interferes with.



#10 Naru

Naru

    Magus

  • Members
  • Gender:Unspecified

Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:33 PM

Isn't there always a chance that someone doesn't like an update? If you don't like it just get rid of it. Give an short explanation at most and that should be enough.

You could change it so that it is supposed to be an inconsistent item and disable it's functions wherever you feel it breaks the game. Than add an extra area that is near impossible to get through without it to give it it's purpose back. Just give the area some small reward to make it worthwhile. Like some exclusive boss-fight with a new side-charakter including some story that is completely meaningless for the rest of the game. If you really don't want to just completely get rid of it.
  • Aevin likes this

#11 Dimentio

Dimentio

    Procrastinator at heart

  • Members
  • Real Name:Joshua
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:America's Hat.

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:24 PM

I think both the 90 coin and 100 coin upgrades need to be replaced. 100 at least maybe nerf to 25% less damage instead of the current 50% (halved). 90, maybe an enemy counter sort of like Moosh's "You're damage" cape, where enemies take high contact damage from you. It's another use that also benefits the "rush in without thinking" idea of the null floor, and it would have a good symmetry with the 100 coin reward.



#12 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:48 PM

100% Coin Reward should stay as Half Damage. It is very powerful yes, but well designed bonus content should remain challenging with or without Half Damage. As for Floor Damage Null, I insist on making it consume Magic when over damage combos.



#13 Dimentio

Dimentio

    Procrastinator at heart

  • Members
  • Real Name:Joshua
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:America's Hat.

Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:46 PM

I think floor damage null is bad regardless of magic cost due to it still making spikes and poison water pretty much a nonissue (as well as draining magic when you don't want it to, when one might want it to take only health). I think half damage should be nerfed or even replaced as well, due to it making the last boss a joke, when completionists should be challenged when 100% completing (see Undertale).

EDIT: I also vote on having an option to randomizing the starting room. Have the "starting item" found in the first room be swapped with the item in the current room (or, if the current room doesn't normally have an item, the closest room the player can access without items that has an item). This could allow for very interesting Eppy playthroughs where he might find himself in the middle of Sky in the room where thunder is required, or stranded in the middle of Rose Garden's miniboss room forced to sneak past a great deal of intimidating foes!!


Edited by Dimentio, 16 December 2017 - 06:54 PM.


#14 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:13 PM

I think floor damage null is bad regardless of magic cost due to it still making spikes and poison water pretty much a nonissue (as well as draining magic when you don't want it to, when one might want it to take only health). I think half damage should be nerfed or even replaced as well, due to it making the last boss a joke, when completionists should be challenged when 100% completing (see Undertale).

 

The point of Floor Damage Null is to nullify the threat of spikes and poison water and I do not want to see it completely removed. My suggestion to make it drain magic comes makes it a middle ground; it will trivialize the earlier locations without it trivializing the Bonus areas (which are of concern here) because then you have to decide wherever to consume magic to fight on damage combos and have little for later or stay off and use your magic for attacking on land.

 

Save the challenge when 100%ing to Expert Mode. That is the only difficulty where you should be challenged even if you 100% the game.
If you took the time to go and 100% the game and max your upgrades, you deserve an easy ride afterwards as a reward like nearly every other Metroidvania. Half Damage is required for this because most of the final bosses are balanced around being challenging when fought at near maximum Life and Magic. Undertale's Genocide run should not be compared to this; as the game has a wholly different premise and you are actively discouraged from killing everything.


Edited by Orithan, 16 December 2017 - 07:16 PM.



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users