6 replies to this topic

[Radien]

Hey, have you ever been annoyed at, for instance, having a combo that is a boulder sitting on dirt or BS grass, but you need to have flag #2 on it? So when you push it, part of the ground moves along with the boulder? Ever wish you could put your push block on a layer, instead?

Well, I've found a way to get around this. The push block won't technically be on another layer (since you can't put push flags on layers 1 through 6), but it is effectively on a layer. Here's how it works.

1. Create a version of your push block tile with transparency surrounding it, as though you were going to set it on layer 1 or 2. Now, set this tile to a combo. However, give it all the combo attributes that a push block should have: i.e. unwalkable, and "push-heavy" properties.

2. Place this tile on layer 1. Yes, it will look wrong in ZQuest.

3. Now, assign your screen coordinates for layer 1. Once that is done, draw ground combos on layer 1. Place those ground combos on top of your push block, and also covering every square that the push block can potentially be pushed onto. Yes, this will still look partially wrong in ZQuest.

Now, just in case you don't believe me, fire up the ZC player and test this. See? Push blocks on layers.

You see, when you apply a "Push" flag to a combo, it actually treats that combo as though it's on a independent, reserved layer -- you could call it "layer 2.5". The under combo is actually rendered before you even push the block, but you can't see it because the push block is layered above it. In a way, ZC has always had some limited layering; it was just inaccessible to designers until DN added it into ZQuest in one of the 1.92 betas.

You can see this trick in action in LoZ: Master Quest, which is now queued up for addition to the database.

Edited by Radien, 29 November 2004 - 09:15 AM.

[ShadowTiger]

Radien, you own. You own the entire room. You own the field, you own the farm, you own the entire block. Damn cool, man.


Have you ever played Wild Bill's Monthly Zelda - 1? He had this trick in there. It was done with pots. It was also one of the first quests to utilize Combo Cycling, I believe. Always a pleasure to play that.

What I wish, though, is that you didn't have to remove layers to see your block. It also looks kinda weird when the pot is sitting on a black tile like that, in ZQuest. But hey, as long as it works.

[Mr. Z]

Didn't you guys know about that all the time?
I knew of this since monthly Zelda 1

Z's way of explaining it:
Put the pushable object on layer 0, give it a push flag.
Then put, what should be the undercombo, on layer 1. And get ready to push.
It's one of my favorite tricks ^_^

[ShadowTiger]

Yes, mine too. I really like to use this trick with sleeping Gorons. You now have no excuse for not using them as living block triggers.

[Radien]

Well, I suspected I wouldn't be the first to have figured this out, but no one is using it!! I've seen places in quests by DFW, Petoe, PrinceMSC and others that could have used it, but didn't. So I figured the forum could at least use a reminder!

Has anyone used this trick with "push - infinite" flags? Because that's what I intend to do next.

Mr. Z, your explanation is good, but if you are using a one-push flag, you need to put combos where the block will end up, as well as where the under combo(s) should be.

I suspect one could use a similar trick to make 2x2 tile push blocks, but that would require a lot of combo cycling and personal effort as well.

[Shoelace]

I did this trick in my game too. It is a neat trick! Now newcomers can do this awesome trick.

[SwordOfSeals]

I'm doing this trick in my game, too. Just, I dunno. Cool to be smashing and pushing things.