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Star Wars Quest & Science-Fiction Quests?

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#16 Legen Dary

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

The problem isn't only in the writing, but also in the appreciation of it. Few people can see the difference between good and mediocre storytelling. Many people can detect plain bad writing, but beyond that not many are capable of seeing the difference between the stuff that seems good and the stuff that's actually good.

 

Zelda fans, the huge majority of them, don't seem to know how to separate the sooner than the later. People who really appreciate good storytelling are reading Joyce or watching Ozu, to put an example. When people who don't appreciate stories deeply try to write, they often end making trash.

 

And, with videogames, is more complicated than that, because the way of telling things can be (and should be, in my opinion) different. It's not WHAT you tell, but HOW you do it. Good stories are HOW, not WHAT. That's why Ozu could make so many masterpieces only with mundane material, and also why when a friend tells you an awesome thing that happened isn't a good story. That's why good storytellers are artists.


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#17 Aevin

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:22 PM

Heh ... This discussion has gone pretty far outside the scope of the original topic, but it's fascinating, so I hope that's okay.

 

I hold a pretty optimistic view of creativity, so I would never call someone else's story "trash," even if it's weak on a lot of levels. It's an expression of some aspect of the author, and if they're serious, it's a step along the way to them becoming a better storyteller.

 

With that said, I think the most common shortcoming in serious attempts at ZC stories is length. I adhere to the idea that "brevity is the soul of wit." I believe some people write with this attitude of, "Well, my writing is good, so people will love reading it, so the more of it there is, the better!" Instead, I approach it like "How much text can I squeeze in here before it drives the player crazy?" In my opinion, the key to good writing is saying as much as you can with as few words as possible. Some writers seem to want readers to understand their thoughts and vision so completely that they go into extreme detail to make sure readers/players see and understand all that they do. But that makes things boring, and doesn't give the reader a chance to use their own imagination. In some ways, I like to look at the story as a foundation for the reader to build off of with their own ideas. The foundation just needs to be strong enough to guide them in the right direction.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit ... so have a gigantic, rambling post!! ;)


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#18 Legen Dary

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:53 PM

That's because the good artist is the one who knows how to elminate. Everyone makes, but the key is in erasing.

 

Create and destroy. Most of the material you create should be gone by the end: select only the things that speak truly to yourself and let the rest go. In the end, more or less the 90% of your work will be destroyed so the remaining 10% will shape your final piece.

 

This may be different with super-talented artists at their peak, but even in that case they'll destroy a lot of the material.


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#19 anikom15

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:05 PM

I don't know about that ... I think some people do the creating and destroying in their head.

I hardly proofread my schoolwork, and I usually finish it in one sitting, but that doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it from the moment it's assigned.

I'm more concerned about the vilification of 'tropes', or the idea that every story has been told. Fantasy stories don't have to have crazy magic, time travelling, reincarnation loopholes, god politics, &c. They can be simple and clichéd. I like that.

Edited by anikom15, 11 August 2014 - 05:06 PM.

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#20 Timelord

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:32 PM

What I find most appalling, is the lack of any genuine motivation given to antagonists in a game; or in anything else. It's a clear, wide, and gaping plot hole, in almost all media. Couple that with a plain, old-fashioned deus ex machina, and you have a ready-made but of rubbish that would probably sell to mainstream media, and force anyone with a scrap of intellect to shred, and burn it.

One thing that I note, in most projects in the ZC world, is that they either lack a story,or that the story, as a whole, falls apart;making no real sense, when you examine it as a big picture; or when some kind of detail is crammed at the very end, to add a twist, but with no possible way to connect that to the rest of the story.

It's just an 'Oh, by the way, it was a dream' style, that is an utterly dead concept. It's so dead, that we had to dig it up, build a pyre, soak it in oil, ignite it, and then drop an atomic weapon on it, to ensure it stays dead.

I don't expect Herbert-quality writing in a fan-made production, but it would be nice if plot-point A and plot-point B connected in some manner, rather than being random tangents, and if there was some feeling of a plan to planned events. I also prefer immersive details, and am the type of person who reads work such as the Wheel of Time, and other very-detailed series. I find it a despicable, modern trend, to remove detail, and aim for extremely simplistic, and bland storytelling.

The reason for the popularity of that, isn't that it's better, it's that it's faster to produce; which is why we see so many pieces of fiction shovelled out that when read across a string of authors, don't seem to take on their own identity.

#21 anikom15

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:49 PM

The thing is, though, deus ex machina DOES happen, and many evil people DON'T have rational motivation.

I tend to believe that people who criticize something because of these two traits actually should be criticizing something else. For example, a deus ex machina might not fit in with the theme of the story. In that case it's the messaging one should be criticizing. The deus ex machina has nothing to do with it.

Edited by anikom15, 11 August 2014 - 06:51 PM.


#22 C-Dawg

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:12 PM

If you are looking for a story-driven, science fiction quest, I recommend you download the current version of Zodiac: Story of the Guardian.  It is available in its own thread in this forum.  It is not complete yet, but nearly so, and I need all the people playing and finding bugs that I can get.



#23 Old-Skool

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

I have said this once before but any star wars quest featuring lightsaber should make extensive use of slash combos. They don't need to do much but change an object's appearance, but really makes it a bit more fun to swing around.



#24 Timelord

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 08:16 PM

C-Dawg, on 14 Aug 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:
If you are looking for a story-driven, science fiction quest, I recommend you download the current version of Zodiac: Story of the Guardian. It is available in its own thread in this forum. It is not complete yet, but nearly so, and I need all the people playing and finding bugs that I can get.

I'll start that next, after Eiyuu. (If you want specific types of testing, I'm willing to oblige.)

#25 C-Dawg

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 02:43 PM

I'll start that next, after Eiyuu. (If you want specific types of testing, I'm willing to oblige.)

 

If you're game, the more testers I have chugging through Zodiac now, the better.  It's done through the end boss, so all I'm doing now is the ending cinematic plus crushing bugs and making gameplay changes at the suggestion of testers.  Come on down if you're so inclined.





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