Jump to content

Photo

ZC Enemy Difficulty

Poll Discussion

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

Poll: Enemy Difficulty

This is a public poll. Other members will be able to see which options you chose

Which ZC enemies are the hardest?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Sheik

Sheik

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 04 July 2017 - 10:04 AM

Hey there everybody!

I am interested in a ranking of all standard ZC enemies by difficulty. This could help reasonably setting up the difficulty curve in own projects. Thus I set up a poll about which enemies you consider the hardest to beat in ZC. I excluded boss (and semi-boss) types and grouped different types together into one option (if you vote there you should post specifications about which kind of this type you consider the hardest).

If you care to share your own thoughts on this you can also post your own ranking (or top 10 or whatever) of difficult ZC enemies/ encounters (like different enemies grouped together).

Feel free to comment on the traps and bosses, too - while they aren't options in the poll they can of course just as well be worth mentioning.


Edited by Sheik, 04 July 2017 - 10:05 AM.


#2 Anthus

Anthus

    Lord of Liquids

  • Members
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 04 July 2017 - 10:39 AM

Wizzrobes, Peahats, and Darknuts. Let me elaborate here. Red Wizzrobes aren't too big of a deal, but the randomness of the blue varieties can be tough to deal with. Not to mention their magic, which they spam if you're in the line of sight, does two hearts with no rings. You pretty much are required to have a magic shield if you are dealing with more than two of these guys. Besides Mirrorrobes requiring the Mirror Shield to defeat (which makes them a joke), I'd say blue Wizzrobes are the single hardest, non-miniboss enemy in the original Zelda. Don't even get me started on summoners with troll enemy lists, or worse, Windrobes (who asked for those?). Peahats aren't hard, but they are really annoying, especially if they are tied to a screen's secrets for some reason. And Darknuts (Blue), well, just because. I think a Lynel would be tougher if you shielded them in front cause they have the projectile, but I remember in the original game, you have to maneuver around a lot of these guys carefully in Level 5, and they can be a challenge in groups.



#3 CyberGamer1539

CyberGamer1539

    Lord of Cyberspace

  • Members
  • Real Name:Ethan
  • Location:Idaho

Posted 04 July 2017 - 10:40 AM

I threw in 4 votes for some of the most difficult/annoying enemies in my opinion:

 

 

Darknut: ​These guys will always be trouble because they are one of the few enemies that you can't just whack if you get close to them, especially if you are limited to no sword slashing. The hardest is obviously the Death Knight, I don't think there will be much debate about that.

 

​Like Like: ​They aren't particularly hard, but they have lots of health and a rather annoying effect if it latches onto you for too long. I'm always on edge when one of these guys are in the room.

 

Lynel: ​If you want to discourage newer players from entering high level or late game areas, throw a few Lynels in and it should do the trick. They do lots of damage and have a sword beam attack that can be devastating if you aren't equipped with decent equipment. Clearly the higher level Lynel will be better in this case.

 

​Wizzrobe: ​There are many types of wizzrobes available in the ZC editor, but all of them are pretty difficult. The hardest in my opinion is probably the Mirror variety, because you can't just attack it with your sword, you have to position yourself just right to reflect it's magic. The Windrobe is also up there because of it's devastating attack.


  • ShadowTiger likes this

#4 Avaro

Avaro

    o_o

  • Members
  • Real Name:Robin
  • Location:Germany

Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

Bat

Darknut - All of them, obviously death knight the most

Leever - The ones that spawn in front of you

Wizrobe - The ones that walk around

 

Some of them are not hard to beat, but just hard to avoid taking damage from.


  • Shane likes this

#5 grayswandir

grayswandir

    semi-genius

  • ZC Developers

Posted 04 July 2017 - 12:31 PM

Ignoring damage amount which varies based on your tunic and heart levels, I have the most difficulty with Bat enemies. Specifically, enemies with the keese style movement that don't die in a single hit.

They're the worst:
- You can't stun them, they just take damage.

- They don't get knocked back when taking damage.

- They have a highly erratic movement pattern that can change direction at any moment.

All this combines into an enemy which you can't influence its position or movement at all - you just have to predict where it will be (which is really random) and then not be there. You can try to damage it and then run through it real quick, but if it changes direction at all you'll probably take damage.

 

In short, there's no good way to avoid them besides staying a good distance away.


  • ShadowTiger and Naru like this

#6 Eddy

Eddy

    ringle

  • Moderators
  • Real Name:Edward
  • Pronouns:He / Him
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 04 July 2017 - 12:34 PM

Kinda basing some of these more off "most annoying" rather than hardest and going off the ZC enemy list rather than the standard Z1, but here's a list of mine:

 

Bubble - Red and temporary ones specifically. They're very annoying to avoid sometimes and can really interrupt you in the middle of fighting enemies and suddenly jinx your sword. Temporary ones aren't so bad since it's a 3 second jinx, but the red ones are frustrating to run into and usually the blue bubbles in the room always seem to run away from me lol.

 

Darknut - Death Knight specifically. It's a very unfair enemy with excessively high damage and speed. If you don't have a Hookshot or Fire Boomerang or something to stun these guys, good luck :P Red, blue and splitters are no problem for me, and I generally find them quite easy to kill (though quite long with just the Wooden Sword).

 

Like Like - Not a hard enemy, but can be really annoying to kill because of the fact that they take 9 hits to kill with the Wooden Sword and you always need to keep your distance or else rip Magic Shield. Once you have ranged attacks though, they aren't too bad.

 

Peahat - Again, not a hard enemy, but very infuriating, especially because of the fact that you can't hurt them at all when they're flying and kinda makes things a waiting game.

 

Stalfos - L3 specifically, with it's 4 shots and super fast speed, they can be quite a nightmare when you put loads in one room. The sword beams also deal insane damage, which doesn't help much.

 

Wizzrobe - Mostly Mirrorobes and Windrobes for me. Mirrorobes are incredibly annoying to kill because of how random its movement is compared to other Wizzrobes. It also doesn't help that you can only kill it with reflected shots, so you just have to hope that it will be in your line of sight and start shooting at you. It also deals crazy damage which can kill you fast if you don't have the Red/Gold Rings. Windrobes aren't hard to kill, but can be really evil in certain situations. If you're in a cramped room with loads of Windrobes, the chances of you getting hit by a whirlwind is very high, and can be annoying to have to backtrack all over again.


  • Anthus and Shane like this

#7 Colin

Colin

    Coblin the Goblin

  • Members

Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

I put down Bat, Darknut, and Wizzrobe.

 

More like room hazards

Bubble

Ghini 2 - you need like, super-bombs to kill these guys or something

Wizzrobe (Wind) - I wouldn’t make Link fight one of these guys to open a door

Zora

 

Always easy

Gel

Keese

Leever (Red)

Moblin (Red)

Octorok (Slow/Red)

Octorok (Fast/Red)

Octorok (Slow/Blue)

Rope 1

Stalfos (Red)

Tektite

Vire

Wallmaster

Zol

 

Easy enough unless spammed against Wood Sword

Ghini 1

Gibdo

Goriya (Red)

Goriya (Blue)

Leever (Blue)

Like-Like

Moblin (Blue)

Octorok (Blue/Fast)

Rope 2

Stalfos 2

 

Complex but fightable in small numbers vs Wood Sword

Armos - more fightable if Link has the boomerang

Darknut (Red)

Lynel (Red) - hopefully Link either has space or the magic shield.

Peahat - please never spam these

Pol’s Voice - Bow

Wizzrobe (Red) - Need good amounts of space

 

Link probably should have the white sword before fighting these in any amount more than 1

Bat

Darknut (Blue)

Lynel (Blue) - possibly shield 2

Stalfos 3 - shield 2, boomerang

Wizzrobe (Blue) - shield 2

 

Tough but fair enemies if Link has good gear

Darknut (Splitting)

Wizzrobe (Bat)

Wizzrobe (Mirror)

 

Ridiculous Enemies that I pretty much always avoid fighting

Darknut (Deathknight) - if fought with good gear and the hookshot for stun-spamming

Octorock (Magic) - could be fought early on if easily stun-spammed

 

Enemies that I know nothing about because I haven’t used ZC a lot in over 8 years

Bombchu

 

Octorock 3-4


Edited by Strato, 04 July 2017 - 01:56 PM.

  • Anthus, Shane and Eddy like this

#8 Dark Ice Dragon

Dark Ice Dragon

    Wizard

  • Members

Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

the like like , even if is not the stronger in attack he may leave you whitout shield in very dungerous situations, in a dungeon full of traps and monsters that shot, is like  a sabotage.

The red bubble may be a saboteur too, but the blue one may save you.



#9 Naru

Naru

    Magus

  • Members

Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:51 PM

I think the most difficult situation is when you can't avoid ranged attacks. Which makes Wizzrobes most difficult by default, since they also have some movements to make strategies to place yourself safe backfire. Though same goes for situations like fireballs from all sides from Zoras and so on, making it a bit independent from the actual enemy. After that bomb-octorocs with their unblockable attacks and fire-zols/gels that can get you stuck between flames can also be troublesome.

After that I would say Tektite and Pols-Voice with their movement-pattern are quite a nuisance, at least uf they weren't as easily killed as they arw right now.

#10 Moosh

Moosh

    Tiny Little Questmaker

  • ZC Developers

Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:34 PM

My post has gotten eaten three times and failed to recover. Time for tl;dr

  • Darknuts are much easier than most people make them out to be due to modern rulesets (8-way movement, slash). Splitting darknuts make the game easier rather than harder due to health drops.
  • Bubbles synergize well with most enemies in tight packed spaces to drive up difficulty. A+B item selection intensifies this by making them disable both buttons. Combine them with Like Likes for mean bean machine.
  • Leevers and Pols Voices are meaner enemies than most people give them credit. Their main weakness is that Leevers have low damage/HP and Pols Voice have that pesky arrow weakness.
  • Don't use anything with >16 damage or persistent projectile firing as a general rule. It's okay to have more damage in the editor, but the high damage defaults tend to be bad.
  • Summoning enemies also tend to be bad, due to ZC's lack of a reasonable summoning cap. 40 bats onscreen might look cool, but fair it is not.
  • Peahats are Satan incarnate.
  • It's pretty common for quests to have an inverse difficulty curve because of lack of enemies that can handle Master sword damage weapons, Gold Ring, Hookshot/Fire Boomerang, and >16 hearts. If you don't want to have to mess with the enemy editor, stick to Zelda 1 gear limits.

  • Shane, Eddy, Evan20000 and 1 other like this

#11 Jamian

Jamian

    ZC enthusiast

  • Members

Posted 04 July 2017 - 06:07 PM

Only taking Z1 enemies/items into account:

 

Blue WIzzrobes by far. I still haven't found a good strategy to beat them, and after all these years I'm assuming there is none (otherwise, please fill me in). They are too random to predict, and when you face a lot of them in a tight space, you just have to hope you'll get lucky with their movements.

 

Darknuts on the other hand, while intimidating when you're new to the game, are predictable. Once you get used to them, they're not as tough as they originally seemed. Even blue ones, and even without slash or diagonal movement. Their high homing factor actually works against them, because you can use it to make them move where you want (to some extent).

 

Pols Voices can be tough if you don't have arrows. They have high HP, high damage, and you can never be sure when they're going to change their movement style (jumping or sliding), making them tricky to deal with if you have to get close and stab them with the sword. In most custom quests though, they're no trouble because you usually have the arrows (or the other weapon they're weak to) by the time you meet them.

 

Bleu Lynels may seem scary at first, but they aren't too bad as long as you have the boomerang. IMO the toughest enemies are always ones you can't stun.


Edited by Jamian, 04 July 2017 - 06:08 PM.


#12 Timelord

Timelord

    The Timelord

  • Banned
  • Location:Prydon Academy

Posted 05 July 2017 - 04:52 AM

I don't feel that any one specific enemy in the original Legend of Zelda is extremely difficult, on its own. It is ultimately the combinations of enemies that add to the difficulty of an area.

 

As an example, combining Wizzrobes and LikeLikes: This pairing always adds tension, because of the risk of losing a magic shield with projectile shooters.

 

Bubbles with Darknuts, or any other 'sword-only' enemies ramp up the tension. Never, ever put both permanent bubble types on a screen with enemies that can eat Link. This combination creates a mandatory F6 point,and is a staple of 1-star and 2-star quests,

 

Darknuts and Lynels together would be painful, but that combination is no-where in the game.

 

Insofar as the most difficult bosses, Patra and Gleeok (4-head) are clearly the toughest.

 

Equipment in ZC changes enemy difficulty immensely. If you have no magic shield, then Wizzrobes, statues, and Zora enemies are much harder. If you undere-quip the player, you can control the difficulty curve.

 

The bow, and the magic wand are possibly the most powerful items in the game. One gives you strong projectile damage at a cost, and the other gives you weak projectile damage at no cost; and ranged attacks drastically reduce difficulty.

 

I absolutely detest some of the 2.10 enemies. Windrobes, are somewhat unfair; but Mirror Wizzrobes, Death Knights, Goriya 3, Leever 3, Magic Octorock, and both the Fire Gleeok and the Fire Gohma, are just plain terrible. Of these, the Mirror Wizzrobes are the smallest offender, and if you have the mirror shield, they are mostly a time wasting enemy, like peahats. I dislike needing to rely on random enemy action to kill or manipulate them.

 

Requiring the player to use the fire boomerang to reflect Mirror Wizzrobe magic is a terrible idea that I have seen many times. It requires that the blasted reflect works, which happens when it wants to happen. Magic Octorock enemies, as Strato said, are fine if you stun-lock them, at which point, they serve as an irritation.

 

In general, any npc with a step speed of 150 or higher is terribly unfair to most players. Fast nocs with good tracking are also evil.

 

I personally favour smarter enemies that are fair, and present some kind of pattern, to complete random nonsense.

 

The 'Fire' bosses give nearly no opening to kill them. They can essentially continuously fire at Link, and thus the tactic is to use potions and tank them. They exist mostly as a sort of artificial key. if you do not have enough hearts, you can go no further.

 

Above all else, the most difficult enemy in ZC is Z-Axis.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 05 July 2017 - 05:03 AM.

  • Naru and Dark Ice Dragon like this

#13 Orithan

Orithan

    Studying Scientist - Commission from Silvixen

  • Members
  • Location:Australia

Posted 05 July 2017 - 05:36 AM

The most complicated regular enemies in ZC are Phasing Wizzrobes. These are inherently the most difficult type of vanilla enemy to deal with.

 

By large, most enemies have a simple movement pattern; either 4-way Land movement (walker) or 8-way aerial movement (flying). Walking enemies can have various modifications that can complicate them (eg. split on death, shields) but they otherwise share the same central flaws which the player can exploit to take them down with ease. Flying enemies are a little more complicated to deal with due to immunity to stun and they are unpredictable, but they are otherwise not much more complex.

That said. Enemies shielded from the front (Darknuts) or using the Vire or Pols Voice movement styles are a lot more complicated to fight due to them discarding one or more of the central exploits that would normally leave them vulnerable.

 

Leevers, at least using the Red Leever movement style, are quite the underrated tool as they punish players for not moving carefully. Pair them with enemies that force the player to move like Wizzrobes and they will be quite dangerous foes.

 

Lanmolas are similar to other walking enemies, but they can't be knocked back and the invincibility frames you can use against them may not be applied to all segments. They are easier to exploit though, as the damage taken by each segment adds up quickly.

 

Teleporting Wizzrobes force you to move and can be difficult if you can't reflect their shots and/or they don't have synchronized teleports. It's a simple challenge, but it is enough to be made very tough by designing the screen layout with it in mind. Summon or 8-shot Wizzrobes don't even teleport to the sides of you; forcing you to deal with the the threat they bring into 8 cardinal directions.

 

Phasing Wizzrobes are the most complicated to deal with because they move randomly and spam shots once you are in their line of sight. They also have the ability to summon, which is broken in ZC.


Edited by Orithan, 05 July 2017 - 05:40 AM.


#14 Deedee

Deedee

    Bug Frog Dragon Girl

  • Moderators
  • Real Name:Deedee
  • Pronouns:She / Her, They / Them
  • Location:Canada

Posted 05 July 2017 - 09:20 AM

The 'Fire' bosses give nearly no opening to kill them. They can essentially continuously fire at Link, and thus the tactic is to use potions and tank them. They exist mostly as a sort of artificial key. if you do not have enough hearts, you can go no further.

The Fire enemies are the best enemies ZC has ever seen. The gleeok is fair because you have sword beams (if you have less than full health you're a shitty player), and the gohma is fair because arrows are ranged, obviously! Don't criticize without proof, god!

.../s


  • Shane and Jenny like this

#15 Alucard648

Alucard648

    Wizard

  • Members
  • Location:castle Dracula

Posted 05 July 2017 - 10:32 AM

Black Leevers + Windrobes+ no shortcuts!  :superevil:

Whirlwind ignores invincibility frames.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Poll, Discussion

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users