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Wait, do people usually make level ground? No slopes?

level ground slopes mountain ridge gb

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#16 Russ

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

I definitely see what you're trying to do with the slope thing, but the problem is it isn't obvious just by looking at it. Logically, you could say "Okay, the cliffs are higher here than there, so there must be a steady elevation rise," but it doesn't look like there is, and that's the biggest issue. Now, there are ways to pull off slopes. For example, DoR mountains are able to use some trickery to do it:

 

s48s8.gif

 

LttP mountains can also do it with some custom tiles:

 

t1105s1.gif

 

The big issue is that GB mountains weren't really designed to do it, so you'll have to come up with some pretty clever use of them to create the illusion of height changes. And I can't say I've worked with the mountains enough to really know how you'd do that. So all I can say is experiment, post the results, and keep trying til you hit something that seems to work.



#17 Cjc

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

So I posted a map in that "Post your maps" thread and Charizard pointed out that something I had made looked weird. Basically I had made some slopes, like in the official gb games(there are actually quite a lot of them, for example at the beach in LA). But I do agree that it does look kind of weird since there are no shadows or anything that really points out that it's a slope.

 

I'm actually gonna steal(sorry Charizard lol) the image he had made(it's just a little part of my map). You can clearly see what's "wrong".

 

qR1vjpp.png

 

 

But now if I'm not using any slopes at all... This happens(look at the ridge and not the fact that the whole map is empty :))

 

 

So than the question arises... do people usually just keep the ground level(not hills or mountains) the same level? All throughout the whole world map? Or just do like Nintendo actually has done themselves and use weird slopes? :)

 

Maybe I'm really overthinking things here, but I'm curious :).

 

I use slopes quite a bit, especially in the Classic tileset.  I usually denote them with a different ground type, though, like sand or 'lumpy' soil.  You might try making a vertical flip of your grass accents for placement on the hill, to show that it is sloping down.  It might also help if you place a hill that slopes east to west (or vice versa) somewhere on the map with similar ground tiles, so that the player associates those tiles with a slope.

 

 

One last pointer for this spot in particular: Your sidewalk path just ends... consider placing stair tiles there (next to the grass) to indicate that the path is sloped.  One stair combo immediately south of the end of the sidewalk and then a continuation of the sidewalk will make it clear that the town needed to accommodate their construction around the angle of the ground.  Such would even allow you to leave the grass combos unchanged.

You could also make a slightly darker shading of sidewalk (picture intermediate dark room) to place on the sloped portion of ground to achieve the same effect, much like ZoriaRPG recommended.


Edited by Cjc, 23 March 2014 - 03:47 PM.


#18 anikom15

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

Spoiler


I can't tell what is supposed to be raised, the brick or the tile floor? It looks uniform to me.

ZwyUuPq.png
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#19 MoscowModder

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:38 PM

The tile looks higher because the brick wall is on the south side. If it were on the north, the tile would look lower.


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#20 Anthus

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:00 PM

When I make mountains with GB/ Pure (or even AlttP) I tend to view the flat ground as level, and maintain the height of the cliffs across the board. However, this is not exactly a rule I have, so I'll adjust if it looks better, or if I need the space for something else. ALBW shows us that there totally can be slopes in the ground though, Now, with Classic, it's a bit different. I view the Classic set as completely top down, save for the characters, and a few overworld sprites, so those mountains are used more like the mountains in an early FF world map, IMO, and I don't use them quite as much to show height. But, sometimes, especially in more recent Classic stuff, I do use them to emulate the layers you get with GB and Pure mountains.


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#21 anikom15

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:41 PM

The tile looks higher because the brick wall is on the south side. If it were on the north, the tile would look lower.


Oh sorry I was referring to ZoriaRPG's screen shots. I think I know what perspective my own screens are :D

Edited by anikom15, 23 March 2014 - 05:42 PM.


#22 SUCCESSOR

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:30 AM

 

s48s8.gif

 

 

Still looks completely flat.

 

 

t1105s1.gif

 

 

Looks sloped but what in god's name have you done to those poor mountains?!

 

 

Seriously though, this is very limited 8bit. Who in their right mind expects realistic landscape details? WTF happened to your imagination? If you find the need to nitpick 8bit graphics just kill yourself.



#23 cavthena

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:56 AM

I have to agree with Successor on this one. As long as it looks close it's fine. Remember to look at this from a players view and not a dev's perspective. Chances of the player noticing a slight error in mountain height while they're trying to figure out how to get that next dungeon key or finish the trading sequence is quite low, as long as you keep it consistent.



#24 Timelord

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:19 AM

I can't tell what is supposed to be raised, the brick or the tile floor? It looks uniform to me.

ZwyUuPq.png


I'm not quite sure what you are saying here...

I was critiquing my own design, using bricks, where there is a mixed perspective: Flat, for the lake, but yet rising, for the waterfall.
It looked awful, but I have since fixed it, a bit.

Compare these, side-by-side:

bricks.PNG columns.PNG

Then, look at a mixed perspective, in the current .qst file:
mixed.PNG

Now, that looks better; doesn't it?

Here is an example, of what a difference tile selection makes for perspective, making objects seem at different elevations, despite the true environment being flat. Even stair shading matters, if you pay close attention to detail:

1.PNG2.PNG

3.PNG4.PNG

5.PNG6.PNG

7.PNG8.PNG

9.PNG10.PNG

11.PNG12.PNG

13.PNG14.PNG

What did you take my original post to mean?

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 25 March 2014 - 02:21 AM.


#25 Shane

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:30 AM

I don't understand what's going on. The first alter perspective seems flat, and the second alter perspective seems to defy the overall dungeon perspective.



#26 Timelord

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:17 AM

The general point is to show how, in a room, using different tile styles, with essentially identical configurations, minor variation in tile usage changes the perspective entirely. the last entry, with dark columns, looks higher than the dungeon ceiling, and yet the same screen, using grey bricks, looks much lower.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 25 March 2014 - 05:20 AM.


#27 anikom15

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:26 PM

Only the last 6 shots show perspective. Everything else looks flat, and this:
mixed.PNG
I'm not getting at all.
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#28 Timelord

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:41 AM

I can't do much to help you there... Some people see optical trickery in different ways: Like those 'magic eye' pictures.

I see a difference in depth angles at points of convergence. In the above, the perspective changes at the point that the mountains behind, and thus, at the point where the columns begin. I should probably make the waterfall go directly across, or make the mountains fill in the area, to complete the illusion. You are right, that the lake makes it look wrong.

#29 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:22 AM

I usually kept my mountains all the same height just for simplicity's sake so I wouldn't have to keep track of varying height elevations due to slopes. However, I did do what Charizard has done and make a bunch of interconnecting mountain height elevations, those screens always looked cool. It is just easier to 'grasp' what is going on in a top-down view screen when you make each mountain 'level' the same height.


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#30 RetraRoyale

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:29 PM

Here's an example of slope in an ALttP-style tileset:

 

RImUsxI.png

 

 

Clearly, the ground on the right is sort of 'funneling' around toward the HCP in the corner.





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