57 replies to this topic

[Orithan]

Zelda Classic hands down. It combines (and improves on) the ease of use that Lunar Magic gives and the advanced features that SMILE has into a Zelda 1-esque fangame (NOT hack, because obtaining the necessary ROMs to use for hacking is illegal).
Lunar Magic I found to be pretty easy to use, especially for romhacking tools, as it rarely crashed roms unless I tried messing with something that I really should not have.
SMILE, on the other hand, frequently crashes rooms (and often entire ROMs) if you end up doing stuff the wrong way, like adding more enemies or PLMs without expanding the ROM and setting up the necessary pointers (which is complicated and tedious) or placing doors the wrong way.

[Omega]

If you want to change the graphics, you gotta get another rom hacking program, for example.

That depends. You can actually change GFX with Lunar magic alone, by using the 16 and 8-bit tile map editor windows. You can also insert ExGFX files which are used to change graphics, and even graphic animations(with some setup in LM) even sprite graphics for the default enemies can be changed in LM via ExGFX files you insert with Lunar Magic.

 

Now if we're talking about changing sprite movements and the way they act, you will need other programs like Sprite tool and block tool for objects. Also to those saying LM is easy to use, it depends on what you're trying to do. There are advanced usages this tool has.

[TheLegend_njf]

What kind of results were you expecting?

This poll is like going to zeldadungeon.com and start a poll called "Zelda vs. Angry Birds!"

But than again, I wouldn't be too surprised.

Edit: You just gave me an interesting idea, I'm gonna look into some things, stay tuned!

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 24 July 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Tabletpillow]

ZC is a lot easier to use in my opinion. Why do you compare ZC with Lunar Magic? Lunar magic doesn't allow you to start from scratch or create events. You shouldn't compare Lunar Magic with ZC. A better Mario editor is Super Mario Bros. X. I say compare that with ZC. 

[Haylee]

ZC is a lot easier to use in my opinion. Why do you compare ZC with Lunar Magic? Lunar magic doesn't allow you to start from scratch or create events. You shouldn't compare Lunar Magic with ZC. A better Mario editor is Super Mario Bros. X. I say compare that with ZC. 

I'm going to agree, a little bit here. SMBX Editor is a lot more user friendly than Lunar Magic. The part I can't completely agree with you with is the program being better, that would simply be your opinion.

 

That said, I do agree with the fact that we should be comparing the SMBX Editor with ZQuest instead of Lunar Magic, as they both are programs where you make a game from scratch, and SMBX Editor(I'll just call it SMBX after this right here) is a lot more user friendly than Lunar Magic.

 

I've played around with all 3 programs from time to time, and it's incredibly hard to determined whether SMBX or ZQuest is more user friendly. Both programs have things that are easy to do, while they have specific things that are very hard to do. After a lot of thinking, I've have not decided which one is more user friendly yet, but I will give my input on it after some more playing around with both programs.

Edited by Goriya, 24 July 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[Jared]

Lol, this isn't even a contest. ZC wins by default. Now if you were to pit ZC against other programs like RPG Maker or Game Maker, THEN we'd have a battle on hour hands .  This is a one-sided battle here :x.

You can't even compare those. Stop trying to degrade ZC. I can see riiiight through you.

[Koh]

You can't even compare those. Stop trying to degrade ZC. I can see riiiight through you.

I'm not degrading ZC at all.  This is talking about user-friendliness, and Lunar Magic requires some knowledge of romhacking and external tools to use.  However, if we were to talk about all in one programs like ZC compared to RPG Maker and Game Maker, the battle field would be much more leveled out.

 

RPG Maker can be used without much knowledge of anything else, and its event creation system is fairly self-explanatory.  The only thing that you'd need to learn how to use through non-help file means is probably the scripting.

 

Game Maker is pretty self explanatory with the drawing of sprites and its drag and drop functions, as well as having absolutely every feature in the program documented in the help file, describing their function and use.  GML (Game Maker Language, the built in coding language) is like the love child of Delphi, Java and C++, so using it efficiently would require at least beginner knowledge in the languages.

Edited by Koh, 24 July 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[Shane]

I tried Game Maker. It took me an hour to even know how to add tiles. In ZC, that would have been like finding how to make subscreens. GM could be so much easier; ZC still stands as most user friendly. Everything is much more closer to your finger tips.

[Koh]

I disagree; there are plenty of things you'd either have to do trial and error for, or use Google to figure out, such as layers or how to set up switches and secrets, and extending the number of triggered secrets per screen, and etc.  There's several un-self explanatory features that can be pretty much required to make a decent quest.  Not ALWAYS, as there are a select few that lack these things (for example, quests done on a single layer) and are decent enough, but those are the exception and not the rule.  In addition, there's many things in ZC that you can't do, that should be as simple as setting the respective tiles and the sprites,  but instead require some hackish work around just to function, such as having the player carrying objects or having climbable ladders.  Or something pretty much every other game creator has by default:  Larger rooms with a screen that follows the character.  So what the user ends up having to do, is step OUTSIDE the program to find out how to do these things, if at all possible (the latter of the list is possible, but as we all have seen, it requires building pretty much everything from the ground up in order to function).  The moment you need to go outside of the program in order to perform what should otherwise be a simple task, that's a hit in how user friendly it is.  If it's something more advanced that you're trying to do, I could understand having to search on how to complete it properly, but simple things should be easy to do and self explanatory OR usable with just the help file alone.

Edited by Koh, 25 July 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[Shane]

GM requires you to script a whole game. ZC does not. Heck, ZC starts you with graphical and musical resources. Just open ZC and away you go. Starting on your own is not user friendly nor is relying on tutorials and readmes. I could easily self teach myself ZC. GM I could not at all.

 

If you want something in ZC, you got to do it like GM; make it yourself. ZC has limits but it sure as hell is more user friendly IMHO.

Edited by Shane, 25 July 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Koh]

I'd say out of the triangle we're talking about now, RPG Maker is the most friendly.  Everything has a button.  Play a sound, move a character, start a battle, display a picture, fade something in/out, use a transition, etc.  It's all clearly labeled and you just line them up in a list when you make an event.  It couldn't get any simpler than that.  If all development tools were this easy, we'd have a lot more games/fangames floating around....for better or for worse.  Better, because people could flesh out their ideas more easily and get a jumpstart in game development...but worse, because there'd be an excess of newbie, unpolished games floating around.

Edited by Koh, 25 July 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Shane]

True. But when I look at most RPG Maker games, I feel like ZC quests is more fluid you know?

[Koh]

Both feel about the same in terms of smoothness to me.  However, the majority of the games of either feel like a standard creation of their tool to me, unless the creator really steps out of the bounds.  RPG Maker and ZC both have scripting, which when used effectively, could easily pull the game out of  that "Feels like a standard RPG Maker/ZC game" aura.  It's that kick that sets these games apart that makes the whole experience worthwhile, and shows that the tools used don't have to make just one type of game.

 

But that's for another thread altogether.  if I were to make a list of user friendliness from best to worst (top to bottom), it'd be something like this:

 

01.  RPG Maker.

02.  Game Maker.

03.  Zelda Classic.

04.  BYOND.

05.  Unity.

06.  Multimedia Fusion.

07.  Flash Game Development Tools.

08.  Advanced Map (Pokemon GBA Rom Hacker)

09.  Lunar Magic.

10.  Hex Editing Tools.

11.  Assembly Tools.

Edited by Koh, 25 July 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Haylee]

 

01.  RPG Maker.

02.  Game Maker.

03.  Zelda Classic.

04.  BYOND.

05.  Unity.

06.  Multimedia Fusion.

07.  Flash Game Development Tools.

08.  Advanced Map (Pokemon GBA Rom Hacker)

09.  Lunar Magic.

10.  Hex Editing Tools.

11.  Assembly Tools.

You forgot to include the Super Mario Bros. X Editor, which is a lot more user friendly than Lunar Magic. >.> (I apologize if that came out rudely, I'm just saying. )

[Jared]

Koh, you STILL can't compare the two. RPG/Game Maker are dependent on scripts and such. With ZC...it's basically a Zelda 1 hacking program that you can customize. 

 

Thus, your "making ladders/sprites" argument is not relevant at ALL.