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AGN 3rd Quest: A Final Look

Evaluation Party_System

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#1 Nightmare

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    Original ZC Tester

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Posted 09 May 2022 - 03:48 PM

OK, I just finished Prototype 6T, which was AlphaDawg's AGN 3rd Quest mixed with the party system, and I have some final passing points on the 3rd Quest.

 

1.  The party system did provide a substantial nerf, but IMO, not enough, especially if this wants to be considered with package-in with a new overworld.  7, 8, and 9 get brutal, and if you do not know what you are doing, you will get slammed.  Very hard.

 

2.  I'm going to write something in defense of AlphaDawg first.  This quest fulfulls his design.  It particularly had an anti-speedrun feel, and was designed to be played with patience and slowly.  On his defense, he did a very good job on this.  However, it was more to win an award than to please the player.

 

3.  On that note, this is definitely not suitable for package-in play or stand the test of time.  I think we made the correct decision to remove this and to put something more playable eventually in its place.  AlphaDawg still deserves his place in history and to be recognized as a contest winner.

 

Now, could this quest be saved?  I think yes, but not with just "10th enemy has the bomb" and maybe the party system.  It needs more work than that.  I think it needs more like a James Quest to James Quest:  Remastered type of remake, with at least enemy editor enemies and a removal of a lot of the late game statues that just totally disrupt the game (even with James around tanking them.  Sometimes the enemies in tight spots make it impossible to use Zelda to shut them off).  I could probably pull this off, but once again, it's not my call, and AlphaDawg is not here.  I'm not sure he'd like it, approve it, or want to do it himself.  The best I could do is make a beta of it, save it for later, and hope he comes back like Shadowblazer did and approves (and that's if I'm lucky)

 

There will always be hardcores that push the limit.  If you can take the frustration and want the achievement of busting standard play at its worst, then this is the quest for you.  Otherwise, probably not an enjoyable experience.

 

-James



#2 HeroOfFire

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Posted 09 May 2022 - 04:21 PM

It does make a great set of bonus dungeons.

 

I think the initial frustration is re-learning where everything is. Blind, I gave up partway through 2. With an unpassworded version to look over... a bit into 4. There are plenty of familiar screens with a new obscure Candle or Bomb spot, so you waste time or write off those screens as having nothing now. And some later dungeons have familiar screens, but moved the push block so it first appears the room has nothing.

 

The next frustration is a lot of later levels just having... "good luck avoiding damage" screens. 4 has some basically unavoidable traps on the way to the item. Later levels have tight spaces with Darknuts and too many fireball statues. And don't forget the Gohmas you can only hit point blank.

 

Also starting around... 5?, we get a bunch of "go back to start" stairs that not only waste time but resources as it lets most kill all enemy rooms refill. It's not great motivation for most players to keep going.

 

There were a few clever designs mixed in. 7 expects the Wand to combat a Gleeok while affected by a Red Bubble. Some of the new room layouts are used in clever ways, like the diagonally split ones. There are a few extensions of 1st and 2nd quest logic (like push blocks in rooms that had no push blocks in the original quests, yet could easily have one).

 

If there was to be some sort of "casual" version, looking over and changing those unavoidable damage screens, finding some solution to the trap staircases, and making rupees more flexible (fewer door repair and money or life rooms) would help. For a remastered version, don't use that as an excuse to superpower the enemies in later levels, also add weaker versions of normally strong enemies to earlier levels (imagine 2 but with weaker Wizzrobes, or 3 with weaker Gibdos). For that matter, the enemy editor can allow a different type of challenge, with slightly harder enemies and bosses but more reasonable screens. And if the route of a remaster is happening, come up with more clever solutions to the new obscure overworld secrets that make or break the quest (due to having a major item or Heart Container).

 

But that is if we want a more playable 3rd. We are probably getting to the point where the charm of Z1 designs have worn off, and the earlier nth contest quests are great if you ever wanted to see more dungeon layouts for Z1... but probably don't care for some of the other Z1 limitations. Also we've probably exhausted the Z1 overworld for any possible interesting secrets or at least I have.



#3 Nightmare

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Posted 09 May 2022 - 04:33 PM

Once again, I am on the fence.  While I think it might be worth it, what happens if AlphaDawg comes in mid-project and just says "no" and wants things the way they were?  The work needed would be significant and he may not like the changes, keep that in mind.

 

Also, I'm ALL FOR a new Overworld.

 

Again, not all that terribly sure what to do here.  Getting rid of it from package is a wise decision, but now, what to do with it.......   (without guidance)

 

-James




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