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Sephiroth's Fall 2016 Expo Coverage

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#1 Sephiroth

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:01 PM

I announced this a while back in the opening thread of the 2016 fall expo that I wanted to livestream coverage of the 2016 Fall Expo. Well, I've wanted to let the holidays settle, as well as allow other members to do their own coverage. I know its been a while since the 2016 Fall Expo had come to a close, but I will be jumping into this blind as I have not seen others' coverage. I will be livestreaming it on Twitch @ https://twitch.tv/sephiroth and will be sending the VoDs over to Youtube for those who miss the actual livestreams. I will be streaming nightly starting at 6:00 PM US Central Standard Time and running until about 9:30 or 9:45, and my expo coverage will take however long it is to complete each entry. I know some entries are shorter than others, so I will be splitting up the VoD by each individual quest as well as parts depending on their lengths.

 

I decided to open a new thread on this versus using the livestream announcement thread, as I would like to garner a bit more attention to this, as well as bring up some discussion. First of all, is there a specific order I should do the entries in? I'd like for people to suggest possible orders to go by for when I start up tomorrow night. Thank you.

 

e: Those of you who missed any of the livestreamed coverage, Here is the Youtube Playlist that you can watch at any time. The quality may not be the best, but given that I cannot stream at a high quality to begin with due to having less than 1mbps upload speed, this is the best that I can do.


Edited by Sephiroth, 20 January 2017 - 09:03 AM.

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#2 Deedee

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:06 PM

How will you be covering entries which have been released as full quests since the expo?



#3 Sephiroth

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:38 AM

How will you be covering entries which have been released as full quests since the expo?

 

Hmm, good point. I'll have to cover the full quest then and play them at the end.



#4 ywkls

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:23 AM

I should note that my entry for last years expo was already a full quest that had been out for two months... but it has also undergone no less than 3 updates since then. And I've got one more waiting in the wings (although this last one is something that the average player wouldn't notice.)

 

I'd also very much like to watch, but can only do so live from Friday to Sunday. Do you have a planned order for what you'll be doing? In any case, I've had a lot of feedback on it so far (some good, some otherwise) and anything that helps to improve the overall experience is beneficial in my opinion.



#5 Deedee

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:17 PM

I vote Glory Squad first, since it's one of the two expo entries I remember playing and was rather enjoyable. The other one I played is a bit long, now that it has been released as a full quest, so that might not be the best one to start off with (also, saving the best for last ;) ).



#6 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:16 PM

I suggest using a random list generator, it's completely fair to all the parties who submitted. I use a random generator when I do this. 



#7 Sephiroth

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:12 PM

I should note that my entry for last years expo was already a full quest that had been out for two months... but it has also undergone no less than 3 updates since then. And I've got one more waiting in the wings (although this last one is something that the average player wouldn't notice.)
 
I'd also very much like to watch, but can only do so live from Friday to Sunday. Do you have a planned order for what you'll be doing? In any case, I've had a lot of feedback on it so far (some good, some otherwise) and anything that helps to improve the overall experience is beneficial in my opinion.

 
Duly noted, I will make sure I do this one on the weekend for you.
 

I vote Glory Squad first, since it's one of the two expo entries I remember playing and was rather enjoyable. The other one I played is a bit long, now that it has been released as a full quest, so that might not be the best one to start off with (also, saving the best for last ;) ).

 
Quite a few of these are full quests in the database from what I can tell now, so this coverage I am going to be doing will take longer than when they were all just demos and/or tech demos.
 

I suggest using a random list generator, it's completely fair to all the parties who submitted. I use a random generator when I do this.

 
I do agree with using a random list generator, however I wanted opinions and/or info on when I should do my stream on specific pieces of work like @ywkis has mentioned up above, so I can at least try to schedule this so I'm doing their project when they can actually watch. That's all. Regardless, the VoDs will be uploaded to YouTube and I will be putting them into a playlist which I will update my OP in this thread with the link to once videos begin to go up.
 
 
 
With the above said, I'm still combing through the expo forum and gathering up a list (along with the respective files) for me to use. Also comparing with the qdb so I can ensure that I grab the full released quest if there is any.
 
e: Currently the list that I have to work with are as follows:
 
Full Quests
  • ✘ Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia - Mitsukara
  • ✔ Yuurei - Aevin
  • ✔ Magic and Fantasy - King Aquamentus
  • ✔ Metroid: Origins - ywkls
  • ✘ Randomizer Returns - HeroOfFire
Demos
  • ✔ Shattered Kingdom - MattB
  • ✔ The Glory Squad - A30502355
  • ✔ The Legend of Zelda: Secret of the Triforce - AdmiralJaden
  • ✔ Secret Skies - RedTribeLink
  • ✔ Light and Darkness - Avataro
  • ✔ Money Making Game - Nimono
I have yet to decide on the order I will be doing things in, but I would like to fit Metroid: Origins in to this weekend for ywkls so he can be here while I actually do my blind playthrough. Yes, all of this will be done blind.

Edited by Sephiroth, 28 January 2017 - 10:57 PM.


#8 Sephiroth

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:12 AM

I have uploaded the VoDs to Youtube, and the playlist link can be found in the OP of this thread. I've also updated the list in the post directly above here with tick and x marks specifying which quests have already been covered. The Youtube playlist will display them in the order that I have covered them, so you can start from the beginning and move on to the end.

 

Tonight's schedule is as follows: I will be finishing up the list of Demos with The Glory Squad, unsure of how long that one will take; and then I will jump right in to Metroid: Origins. See you then. :)


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#9 ywkls

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:08 AM

I've updated the quest based on some of the unusual bugs you discovered last night. (No fix for the keyboard one until the next ZC version, unfortunately.)

 

Since you're already past them, the only thing that you're likely to notice is the fact that bombs and power bombs now reveal where a secret is by changing the combo.



#10 Sephiroth

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

As of last night, I have completed Metroid: Origins, and through my derping around and breaking the game in various places, ywkls has updated the quest to solve some of my frustrations (as well as some glaring bugs that caused some things to be downright broken). I also started on Magic and Fantasy by King Aquamentus last night as well, got to the end of level 5 before I had to wrap up for the night. All of the past broadcasts have been sent over to Youtube and are on the playlist link in the OP of this thread.

 

Posted the following review onto the quest page of Metroid: Origins.

 

 

 

My final thoughts on Metroid: Origins

 

 

Given the limitations of ZC's engine, I am quite astounded by ywkls's capabilities as both a quest designer as well as a scripter, to be able to insert a fully-fledged sideview platformer into the ZC engine. Metroid: Origins spans 3 overworld maps from what I was able to make of it, and his area design was definitely on-par with a Metroid environment. (I say this despite not having played much Metroid official titles except Prime 1, 2 & 3). Each area served its purpose, plenty of backtracking and figuring out where to go. The spacebar map -helped tremendously- throughout the adventure. He's got plenty of little upgrades and secrets hidden all over the place. However, given the length of the quest and the amount of things within it, I feel some of the upgrades and items in the quest just do not belong. The controls of the quest is another thing, as it uses the standard selectable A/B button item feature in ZC 2.50, it also uses all 4 of the EX buttons for additional things. Some of the controls just downright are -not- explaind at all, such as the "Shine Sprite" functionality of the speed boost upgrade you get about halfway in. ywkls had to explain how it worked for me in Twitch Chat, and even then it took me about 15 minutes to finally figure out how that control scheme worked. So there's a bit of a control learning curve in this quest as well.

 

The Metroid you get from the start, rarely used to uncover secrets and/or open key paths to provide for additional progression throughout the quest. It's entirely useless in boss fights (and I can understand why, too) and outside of that the micromanaging of it's health value is something that we could be without. While its nice to have a companion that assists with combat, where it's needed the most it just does nothing. A good upgrade for it would be to draw its health value on the subscreen while it's active/inactive but on either the A or B button. Another good upgrade for the metroid is to use it to uncover more secrets than what exists in the quest currently.

 

The grapple beam, albeit gimmicky at best, is another of those difficult to learn items. And even then when I was first playing around with it, I got myself stuck in a ceiling and had to reset in order to continue. I do like its functionality, however. ... It's just quite difficult to pull off from the get-go, so I tried to come up with other methods to avoid having to use it.

 

The Wall Climbing functionality found later on in the quest is quite difficult to pull off. I found myself being unable to properly GRIP the wall, and then fall down to the bottom of the shaft I was trying to climb up, only to have to try again. Then again, from what I was told it was easier to pull off in an older version of the quest, but also easier to get yourself stuck -in- the wall as well. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with being stuck in the wall.

 

Some of the morph ball paths also frustrated me as well, but these have since been modified to not be that rage-inducing, so I can let this slide. However, there -is- a bit of a problem when it comes to collision checks and ceilings with bomb-jumping (and even regular jumping later on after the upgrade). It appears the collision detection for the ceiling while morphed is 8 pixels BELOW the actual ceiling tiles themselves, which is causing this erratic behavior. While the sloped blocks in the morph passageways allow for easier traversing them back upwards is helpful, that is merely a bandaid-fix on this, and I'd recommend reworking the collision detection to allow for those additional 8 pixels of space so you can bomb-jump up to the ceiling instead of being stopped 8-pixels away.

 

Despite the above problems I've laid out, the scripted bosses and enemies all provide a more authentic Metroid experience within the ZC engine. I would definitely be looking forward to any sequels of this quest and would like to play through them whenever they are released. Overall rating: 4/5 stars. There's definitely room for improvement here. Keep it up ywkls.


Edited by Sephiroth, 23 January 2017 - 10:42 AM.


#11 Sephiroth

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 11:13 AM

Dropping another update here into this thread. As of last night I've completed both Magic and Fantasy by @King Aquamentus and Yuurei by @Aevin. Those videos have been sent over to Youtube and are on the playlist above. However I've got a couple Content ID hits from both Magic and Fantasy as well as Yuurei. According to Youtube, the Yuurei vids may be blocked, this is due to Yuurei's enhanced music and the water area using Abyss of Thor from Tales of Phantasia. :shrug:
 
 

My final thoughts on Magic and Fantasy

 
 
Magic and Fantasy is a classic Zelda 1 quest. A bit on the linear side at first, but other than that its well polished (aside from ... well, a bit of a sequence-breaking "bug" to say) ... (Watch the videos to see what I mean.) ... The tileset is well done, I like the multi-colored dungeon walls. However the "crystal caves" tiles are a bit ... of an eyesore. The overall difficulty of the quest was decent to start off, but I will agree that level 8 was far too easy to be considered a level 8. The hint for level 6 was a bit cryptic, couldn't even find level six until after I had cleared out levels 8 and 7 beforehand. My progression through the quest was Levels 1-5 in sequential order, then I stumbled-upon level 8, completed it. Felt like a level 4 in overall difficulty. Then found myself in level 7 while I was once again searching for level 6. ... completed that one as well, so by the time I got to level 6 I had quite a few more treasures than I would've had if I had done them in sequential order. I felt the difficulty of level 6 was that of a level 8, but that could've been my horribad playstyle. Overall the quest is well-done, however a few additional tweaks could make this a perfect quest. Gonna give this one a 4/5 stars. Keep it up King Aquamentus.
 
 

My final thoughts on Yuurei

 
 
Yuurei is a completely different style of game than a traditional ZC quest. However, from the description it's a sequel to Hitodama, which is a quest that I have yet to play. I spent over 10 hours on my initial playthrough, quite a bit of it was due to backtracking and/or walking around in circles having absolutely NO idea where to go or what to do. I've only done -one- playthrough until the credits scrolled, so I've done little to no "post-game content" which I hear this quest has a decent amount of. The quest itself is definitely a metroidvania style quest, there's no real dungeons at all but there's plenty of areas to explore, lots of secrets to find, etc.
 
To start off, you're given a choice between choosing a character randomly or taking a short quiz to select a character. I decided to go for the quiz and ended up using Jack as my playable character. I played through the quest on Normal difficulty, which may skew this review a bit, but I wanted to see what Aevin intended as the normal difficulty. ... I completed the quest with 127 deaths, most of which were in boss rooms.
 
Speaking of boss rooms, good god there's -far- too much going on the screen at once to even dodge in a good manner. Most (if not all) of my boss kills left me with either a half heart or one heart remaining, and that's only because I felt I got lucky on my dodging, and not because I got better at dodging. Quite a few times I had it where bosses would teleport directly on top of me giving me very little to NO chance to dodge, making it rather difficult to get through the boss fights.
 
However, with that one complaint aside, the rest of the things in the quest are very well done. All of the custom "spells" (as they're called) in the game are very well done, love the fact that there's no "true" base ZC items in the quest. The timed "puzzles" in the Rose Gardens were well done. First time I'd ever see a timed switch that operates across multiple screens. The hidden spikes in the rose garden are a different story, but that's to be expected from a late-game area. The overall story I got out of Jack is very well done, thinking of giving this quest a second playthrough off stream just to experience a bit more of the post-game content.
 
All of the custom scripted enemies also gave it that non-ZC feel and almost made me forget that I was even playing a Zelda Classic quest. The amount of polish that went into this quest definitely shows, and I'd love to see additional quests put out by you. Overall rating: 4.5/5 stars, (Rounds up to 5/5). This quest is one of the better quests I've played. Keep it up Aevin.

Edited by Sephiroth, 28 January 2017 - 11:14 AM.

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#12 Aevin

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:48 PM

According to Youtube, the Yuurei vids may be blocked, this is due to Yuurei's enhanced music and the water area using Abyss of Thor from Tales of Phantasia. :shrug:

Really? Abyss of Thor? That game's ancient!

 

I replied in more detail to your review on the quest page, but I just wanted to say thanks for playing and for the thoughtful review.


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#13 Mitsukara

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:00 PM

Hello! I just saw this and wanted to clarify a couple points (hopefully) before they come up.

 

The current version of LaZPoC on the database, 1.2, has some bugs, such as a part at the top of Terui Palace where you go down a ladder and come out of a ceiling instead of back into the proper room; that bug was introduced accidentally in that version. I've just submitted a fixed version 1.3 today, but it's not up yet. You can find it here on my dropbox, however: EDIT: It's up on the quest database now.

 

(Backup links on my dropbox preserved for posterity)

Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia Version 1.3

Updated Support Pack for 1.3

 

The quest uses enhanced music, but the only copyrighted pieces are from NES and Gameboy games, so I'm hoping it doesn't matter on youtube? Youtube's algorithm stuff is evil though, so I dunno : ( I would have suggested leaving the enhanced music out, but unfortunately, the music won't really play right without it (there'd be unintended silent parts at times); the scripts that change certain music settings (like when you fight a boss, go on the raft in the overworld, etc) only handle enhanced music, not MIDIs. If I ever complete another quest I'll try to account for that and make MIDIs a more viable option than I did here.

 

Also, regarding the stream: I'd love to see this but my computer absolutely locks up when I try to view streams. (Same reason I'm never in the audience live for TeamUDF's streams even though I follow him on youtube fairly closely.) The video freezes for so long that I literally miss like 9/10ths of what goes on. So I probably won't be around for the actual streams, but I'll definitely check it out on youtube, and take a look at some of your other videos as well.


Edited by Mitsukara, 31 January 2017 - 10:05 AM.


#14 Deedee

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:34 AM

Is this cancelled/on hiatus? You haven't been streaming the past 4 days.



#15 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 03:10 PM

Covering full expos are very taxing. It really is a lot of content to cover and most of it is often untested design. This is why Eppy haven't bothered this year I'm guessing and I'm wondering if he'll even bother next time.

This is also why I only cover around an hour of each submission at most.

I learned to avoid doing full demos or quests since one member used to submit his 90% full quest to the expo like 3 or 4 times and it was often criticized for being not that good. If I had to cover full expos and be fair, I'd risk putting myself in the position of having to spend a good 20 hours or more streaming a quest I don't even want to play 4 or 5 times.


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