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Improving your favorite masterpieces


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#1 Mitsukara

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:52 AM

Some say there's a flaw in everything, that no work (or very few works) are truly perfect. Your mileage may vary. However, you probably have some favorite works that you think are basically perfect, as good as could be expected, or at least approach perfection. Of course, perfection is also completely subjective and debatable, so it's all a relative matter of opinion.

The point of this thread is not to talk about works you think are bad or majorly flawed, which you think should be rebuilt from the ground up or anything like that. If you hate Zelda II or Sailor Moon Crystal or Alien 3 or whatever, this isn't about that. If you're middling on a given thing, this isn't really about that either.

Instead, I challenge you to think only of your favorites; the things you might already rate 5/5, and perhaps have rewatched/replayed/reread simply for love of the thing. Then, creatively/constructively point out ways you can imagine them being even better. Try to be specific. Realistic can also be good, but is not strictly necessary.

BEWARE SPOILERS- I recommend including them so your explanations make more sense. Spoiler tags are also recommended.

Here's my spin on a few of my biggest favorites:

Movies:
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

Spoiler
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
Spoiler
Back to the Future Part II and Back to the Future Part III
Spoiler

Anime:
Sailor Moon '90s anime season 1

Spoiler

Video games:
Super Mario Bros 3

Spoiler
Super Mario World
Spoiler
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Spoiler
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Spoiler
Final Fantasy VI
Spoiler


Edited by Mitsukara, 07 December 2017 - 04:20 AM.

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#2 Cukeman

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:12 AM

"Perfect" can be a hard thing to define. Does it mean "flawless", or "amazing"?

 

I can think of a bunch of things without flaws that I would only give a 5 or a 7 (out of 10); this is because they are good, but not amazing. By which I mean that some things have so much extra polish, depth, thoughtfulness and artistic flavor that they outclass their competitors. For example, checkers is a good game, nothing wrong with it, but it's very simple compared to chess. Chess is a much more layered experience, so it gets a higher value in my eyes.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: In order to get a 10/10 rating, some things have flaws that need fixed, while others would simply have to get more additions, layers and polish to go from "flawless and good" to "flawless and amazing".

 

Are we just talking about things to fix, or are we including things that are great, but could shine even more with some extra polish?



#3 Mitsukara

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:56 AM

I was thinking of either/both. That is, ways to add and improve to something that is relatively flawless, or ways to fix flaws in something that you think is amazing enough to be truly great. (For example, I consider the titan's mitt not being needed for large blocks to be fixing a probable flaw/goof in A Link to the Past, but adding more functionality to the super bomb would be adding a new improvement.)

 

Basically, anything you think would improve a work which you already hold in extremely high regard and consider a favorite. Something you personally think of as a masterpiece (flawed or otherwise), yet thinking up some way it could be even cooler.


Edited by Mitsukara, 07 December 2017 - 07:57 AM.

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#4 Anthus

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:11 AM

This will be a short reply for now, but right off the bat, I'd say Wind Waker needs some love. For starters, I'd add in (or add back in, rather) a bare minimum of two more full dungeons. Three would be ideal, as without counting Hyrule castle, or forsaken fortress, that would be 8 total. Back to FF, for one, the pace breaking stealth section right after you get your sword would be removed or shortened.

Also, all additions and changes from the hd version (fast sail mainly) would be included.

I'd also like to see more mini dungeons, not unlike shrines. They can give you heart pieces, or rupees, since there's lots of those to go around.

#5 Cukeman

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:05 PM

re Ep 5

 

re Ep 6

 

Some of my own (will do more later):

 

SMB 3


Edited by Cukeman, 07 December 2017 - 11:25 PM.

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#6 Anthus

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:22 PM

Regarding SMB3, yeah, it always bothered me that you couldn't return to previous worlds. My best guess is, since the game didn't have saving (which is still crazy considering how huge that game was for its time, and games had saving before it, like Zelda), they wanted to keep players moving forward. This might also explain why you can't replay stages either.

 

I love SMW as well, but one thing that always kind of bothered me was the lack of level variety. Not in design so much, but in appearance. All the "outdoor" levels use the same two tilesets, with a few palette changes here and there. I would like to see some different tilesets used. Oh, there's the forest, and bridge levels too, and that's what I'd like to see more of. Maybe make some new ground tiles that look like layered cake for Chocolate Island, for example. This doesn't mean the game is bad, but I always wished there was more visual variety between the worlds. I will admit though, that the palette swaps, especially late game, do a somewhat okay job of differentiating them.



#7 Mitsukara

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:02 AM

Going back in SMB3 didn't occur to me, probably because the first version I properly beat was the Super Mario All-Stars version that does let you go back to earlier worlds (and thus grind up a bank of hammer suits by replaying the first two levels of World 6), but I definitely agree that going back is a good feature.

Aesthetic variety is good too. I'm glad there's such a wealth of SMW hacks (even if some aren't so great), as there's a chance to address exactly that.

 

You know what's even weirder? Doki Doki Panic had saving. But not SMB2US. I think Nintendo of America might've wanted to cheap out on EEPROM battery production or something. I'm kind of amazed we got all of the first four Dragon Quest games, really!

 

Regarding Palpatine's senility, I wasn't thinking that it would be a joke exactly, so much as the officers would start to freak out as they realize what's wrong (the only way for him to be even more terrifying than he already was to them, is if he's also off his rocker). It seems a very old samurai movie kind of trope to me, to have the very old and powerful emperor who's losing touch with reality, and it neatly explains why his 'clever' plan is so ultimately and thoroughly self-defeating.

 

EDIT: I do have one more I didn't list previously:

 

Mahoromatic (manga version)

Spoiler

I didn't think of it on the first pass because Mahoromatic isn't a super-duper-absolute favorite like the others I listed, but it's awesome enough at what it does do to merit the treatment.


Edited by Mitsukara, 08 December 2017 - 02:11 AM.


#8 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 03:30 AM

[...]

 

You know what's even weirder? Doki Doki Panic had saving. But not SMB2US. I think Nintendo of America might've wanted to cheap out on EEPROM battery production or something. I'm kind of amazed we got all of the first four Dragon Quest games, really!

[...]

 

You also had to beat every stage of Yume Koujou Doki Doki Panic with each of the four characters on the Disk System release. ;)

 

Spoiler

 

The re-release, as Super Mario USA, was just a port of the western SMB2 with slightly different title screen colours and graphics.

 

I would have released both the JP SMB2 and Yume Koujou DDP as-is in all regions. Neither game needed editing, although YKDDP didn't have a run button, so, that was one nice touch that the western ports added to the gameplay.

 

For Star Warv VI, I would have put the final battle on Kashyyyk, with Wookies, as the original plot intended, instead of budget-cutting and reworking it to use Ewoks. I might have retained some of Frank Oz's insane Yoda commentary that supposedly ruined so many takes in both ESB and ROTJ.

 

I also would have prolonged the battle between Vader and the Emperor. Having Vader toss the Emperor down a pit certainly downplays the power of the Dark Lord of the Sith, although, who knows: Perhaps Palpatine will return in one of the two next films.

 

His death certainly seemed at odds  with his power. Are we to believe that someone of his power couldn't save himself from a fall?



#9 Cukeman

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:32 AM

Regarding Palpatine's senility, I wasn't thinking that it would be a joke exactly, so much as the officers would start to freak out as they realize what's wrong (the only way for him to be even more terrifying than he already was to them, is if he's also off his rocker). It seems a very old samurai movie kind of trope to me, to have the very old and powerful emperor who's losing touch with reality, and it neatly explains why his 'clever' plan is so ultimately and thoroughly self-defeating.

 
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of it that way. 
 
 

His death certainly seemed at odds  with his power. Are we to believe that someone of his power couldn't save himself from a fall?


I always felt that was odd too. It's even more troubling if you accept that Darth Maul didn't die when he fell and was cut in half (I don't accept that Maul survived that).



#10 Cukeman

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:22 AM

Super Mario Sunshine (I LOVE this game)

- A Blue Coin symbol appearing below each level title when there are no more Blue Coins to be found there.

- Fix the Pachinko level


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#11 Eddy

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:22 AM

Wind Waker is a clear choice for me, as it is my personal favourite Zelda of all time, but there are two main things in mind that could be improved:

Spoiler

Probably isn't super realistic, but that's what I would've loved to see :P Will probably expand for other games, but for now WW is all I got lol.


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#12 Mitsukara

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

I do like Wind Waker, but don't regard it as a super favorite. But I agree with all of those changes, that sounds awesome! Back when I first played I honestly expected the triforce shards to be in dungeons in Hyrule, and was disappointed.

 

I do agree that making Palpatine more competent and impressive could've been a good move too, albeit the opposite of my idea. The lightning seemed scary back at the time, but if that's all he's got, when Luke could jump out of a pit in the previous movie, I dunno. He didn't seem all that impressive in hindsight.

 

I often forget about the Kashyyyk thing, but it would be pretty cool. I'm more okay with the ewoks than some, but it would obviously be more impressive to have huge wookies doing that kinda stuff. (Honestly I kind of wonder why it was any cheaper.)

 

...oh wow, can you imagine an alternate history where we got Caravan of Courage: A Wookie Adventure?


Edited by Mitsukara, 08 December 2017 - 11:12 AM.


#13 Cukeman

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:00 PM

Battletoads (NES)

-Fix the US version of the wheely bike level so it's possible for 2 players.

-Add an easy difficulty mode, not that I want this, but you're severely limiting your audience without this option. Not enough people are willing to "keep at it" to experience and enjoy what's here. HOWEVER, I do think the last level should only be accessible in normal difficulty mode.

-Add a mode where you can't hurt your teammate.

-Add more continues or a password system. I am worried a password system might be too generous; on the other hand I've beaten quite a few hard games, but I've never gotten past the swimming level in Battletoads aka the "Terra Tubes".

 

I do like the Ewoks in RotJ, but please don't remind me of the 2 Ewok movies, I've seen them. They hurt.

 

I thought about listing changes for Ocarina of Time, but when I think of the sheer number of them, there's just too many changes to qualify for this topic. I would like to direct a true remake, I have some great ideas. Don't get me wrong, the game is amazing in many ways, and felt like sheer perfection back in the day (almost), but it does have some issues, mostly due to aging.




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