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Ocean Sailing (Tech Demo)


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#1 Mitsukara

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:43 PM

Download the Demo here
(Please use ZC Version 2.50.2, or else this may severely malfunction. Although trying it in both 2.50.2 and newer ZC betas, then reporting anything that goes wrong/behaves differently in the betas, might be helpful.)

--- What is this?:
This is just a small pre-pre-alpha technical demo, not a proper game. There isn't much gameplay here; mostly it just showcases a work-in-progress engine and some custom graphics (my own set based on LTTP, but with some adjustments for ease of use and some new elements).

The tiles also contain a small amount of suggestive fairy poses (sometimes in swimsuits); viewer discretion is therefore advised. (The potentially offending content is on pages 175-190).

--- Future goals:
I built this for a prospective future quest with the working title "Memory of Koholint". However, this is all I've got done for it besides a messy stack of plans, although it will also reuse or expand on several elements from my previous quest, Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia. Essentially, Memory of Koholint aims to be a sequel with similar gameplay, but with less ties to Zelda II and more to Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past. However, I'm waiting to post a proper project page for it until there's more actual content done, instead of just rambling about my plans.
--- Open source stuff:
The quest file is not passworded and the scripts are included, so anyone who wishes to tinker with this (or attempt to repurpose it) may freely do so (though I cannot promise to assist such efforts, you can always ask). It has a lot of limitations, though; most standard ZC features don't interact normally, and there are no enemies yet. Also, it might or might not be properly supported by newer betas as time goes on.
 
--- Other issues:
Does this run okay? I'm unsure if it may cause lag compared to other quests, due to the complexity of the screen drawing.
 
--- Presentation:
And now that I'm finished underselling, I present to you: mode 7 freerange scrolling with functioning collision detection. And layer/position/scale-shifting "non-flat" horizon objects for islands, too! ^^

--- Screenshots:
UKefocP.pngVfWka26.png
AggyVdp.pngehGLUsJ.png

At last, the high-tech futuristic graphical capabilities of Final Fantasy IV are mine to command! Wait, I thought I was done underselling; oh well.
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#2 ywkls

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 11:06 PM

This is far beyond even your high standards, Mitsukara.

So, lets go over my favorite bits from the demo...

 

The way the waves bounce as you goi along is a nice touch.

The animation as you enter a cave/warp is astounding.

Having the ability to use items while rafting is neat.

 

My only complaint is that I didn't seem to be able to equip anything to the A button. (B button worked fine, though.)

Looking forward to a more complete version!



#3 NoeL

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 11:59 PM

Pretty cool! The raft's a bit sluggish moving north and south (made jumping bombs pretty difficult to judge) and the cramped field of view makes navigation a pain, but as a tech demo it's impressive! Good stuff.



#4 Cukeman

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:23 AM

Amazing stuff! Possibly stupid question. Can this switch back to regular ZC mode when you disembark?



#5 NoeL

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 03:12 AM

Amazing stuff! Possibly stupid question. Can this switch back to regular ZC mode when you disembark?

I guess you haven't tried it out yet. XD Yes, it switches back when you disembark.



#6 Cukeman

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:59 AM

Oh I sailed around, just got lost, lol



#7 Anthus

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

This is so far beyond anything I've seen in ZC, and that's including the stuff blueknight was working on a while back.

 

The only thing I might change is maybe have the horizon be up one more tile or so, so there's more north/ south room. Otherwise, wow, I can't think of anything else to say. It looks great, and the LttP style Marin sprite is really well made too.

 

Also, how do you jump? I think I've pressed all the buttons.


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#8 NoeL

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:04 PM

Also, how do you jump? I think I've pressed all the buttons.

Find Roc's feather and equip it. :P


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#9 Eddy

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 08:01 AM

Wow, I am really impressed by this. You've definitely pushed the limits of ZC and made something I wouldn't have ever imagined. Firstly, this does run very well. I experienced no lag or any other problems like that, so well done with that. I don't think I have any major problems with the tech demo, except for jumping over bombs vertically. Doing this horizontally is not a problem at all, but with it vertically it can be really hard to determine how far you are from the bombs in the water, so I always ended up blasting myself because of the depth perception. I think that could probably be worked on a little bit. Maybe like what others have said, increase the horizon up a bit, just to make things easier to see.

 

Anyways, this is amazing and I would love to see more of this. Great job!



#10 Geoffrey

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 06:08 PM

That was a friggin experience. Praise be.

 

Also, I noticed you'd used my palm tree at the End of Demo Fairy's fountain. I am truly honored to be included in all that Mode 7 goodness.

 

edit: booby fairies lol


Edited by Geoffrey, 05 November 2017 - 09:49 PM.


#11 Mitsukara

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:56 AM

The raft's a bit sluggish moving north and south

I have the vertical movement going slower than the horizontal movement (although the coordinates adjust at a different rate), because it felt like I was going too fast to see what I was doing otherwise. Also, the combos are using an actual regular 16x8 map, so having the vertical be 'slower' makes the map 'more square' in a way, sort of. But I might tinker with the movement rate a little more, especially if I do adjust the perspective. (I also wanted to try sticking maps together at the edges, but didn't work it out yet.)

 

My only complaint is that I didn't seem to be able to equip anything to the A button. (B button worked fine, though.)

That's weird. Perhaps you're experiencing a controller/keyboard problem? Both buttons work for me.

 

Having the ability to use items while rafting is neat.

I definitely hope to set up item puzzles that work in this format, of course. But I still need to have it identify 'where' your weapon is compared to the map; I was messing with a thing to make the boomerang blow up mines, but the math on identifying it's position was confusing me and didn't work out in time for the demo.

 

The only thing I might change is maybe have the horizon be up one more tile or so, so there's more north/ south room

I agree that a bit more vertical range would make this a bit better, and perhaps I should zoom it out some. I'd have to refigure my math a bit to adjust that stuff correctly, since I didn't devise a way to easily adjust it smoothly on the fly or anything (though I'd like to), but it should be possible. Failing that, I think I would avoid having the player worry about vertically hoping over mines in an actual game if I use it with this perspective.

 

Also, I noticed you'd used my palm tree at the End of Demo Fairy's fountain. I am truly honored to be included in all that Mode 7 goodness.

I apologize if the Palm tree wound up being really similar to yours, because I wasn't actually aware of yours. :( The way I actually got those palm trees was to edit some 64x64 pixel (4x4 tile) slightly-shrunken versions of the ones in the LTTP Romhack "Parallel Worlds". However, they might've been using trees based on yours somehow? I'm not really sure where they got them or who made them. (The little 16x16 ones I drew myself, though, and the christmasy pine trees and stuff.)

 

I may do well to look into your tileset, though; so far everything I've used here is either edited out of Orion's LTTP tileset, grabbed directly, modified from Parallel Worlds, or something I drew/edited myself. (Although the beach waves are from BS Zelda, and the white rock pattern is modified from BS Zelda to fit a lower-shading palette).

 

fairies

I had some ideas about having her involved as a sort of costume-changing mascot for a level-up system, and maybe other things. I'd like to make multiple versions (the basic design for each set can be found on one of the tile pages), with a male fairy (in much the same poses, hehe), different outfits, and so on.

Also the overweight fairy from LTTP, though I decided to replace her face because I couldn't stand trying to draw more animation frames with that weird creepy face the original had. (I also redrew the other fairy's face a bit to be cuter and not have yellow lips).

 

Pixel art is one of my big hobbies, and I have some plans and sketches for a webcomic with more suggestive content like that (not the overweight thing, but the rest of it), and similar sorts of things I've made now and then.

At the very least, I want to complete the primary 'green' outfit for the male version, the male bikini/speedo version, the main overweight version, and the goofy Sailor V and Nephrite costume versions (because I'm completely obsessed with Sailor Moon).

 

the LttP style Marin sprite is really well made too.

Thanks! ^^ She's not completely done (that's why she doesn't charge up the sword like the others; not that I necessarily intend to have everyone using the sword in the final game anyway but we'll see). There's this weird problem with original LTTP Link where he's slightly 'taller' facing sideways due to how the head sprite positions on his body and how he uses the shadows, so I've had a hard time figuring out how best to align Marin (and to a lesser extent Zelda, since Zelda needs a lot more sprites than she had originally).

I am also messing with redrawing Link and Zelda's hair a bit (and maybe height but I'm not too sure about that part) to closer resemble manual art, and have various experiments in the tileset around page 123 I think. If I do that, I would keep copies of the original sprites, and ideally I'd like to let the player choose which to use, but this is all a bit hypothetical for now.

If anyone wants to use the Marin sprites (or my other custom sprites), feel free, by the way. Credit is nice though.

I'm pretty sure I could use part of what I scripted here to make a thing that uses the same collision detection logic minus the mode 7 tilted look (so just regular overhead scrolling), and be able to use items much more easily with that. (and make enemies and weapons/items scroll around a little the way I did for the tunnel rooms in Panoply of Calatia). So I may try that first, and then wind up only using the Mode 7 thing in a more limited capacity, like for a Zelda II type worldmap. I'd still want at least some items for this mode 7 mode though, like keys, bombs, flute warps, a salvage arm, etc. I also had an idea about having random encounter monsters in that format... we'll see what works out.

Thanks to everyone for trying it out and giving feedback! I'm relieved to hear it doesn't run like an anvil full of molasses.
 

 

This is so far beyond anything I've seen in ZC, and that's including the stuff blueknight was working on a while back.

That's high praise, but I think perhaps a bit too high, since you might've missed the little fact that Blueknight made full-on 3D raycasting in ZC somehow. So I don't think I'm quite up to that level : ) As a tradeoff, I hope to remain extant within this mortal realm.

(AGN reminds me I ought to update LaZPoC there. Oops. Kinda been forgetting about keeping up with AGN, in spite of the long history of my wayward youth.)


Edited by Mitsukara, 07 November 2017 - 07:53 AM.

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#12 NoeL

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:24 PM

I apologize if the Palm tree wound up being really similar to yours, because I wasn't actually aware of yours. :( The way I actually got those palm trees was to edit some 64x64 pixel (4x4 tile) slightly-shrunken versions of the ones in the LTTP Romhack "Parallel Worlds". However, they might've been using trees based on yours somehow? I'm not really sure where they got them or who made them. (The little 16x16 ones I drew myself, though, and the christmasy pine trees and stuff.)

They used some mountains of mine in that hack too so the creators are definitely aware of PZC. If Geoffrey's trees are in the database then I wouldn't be surprised if they made their way into Parallel Worlds.

That's high praise, but I think perhaps a bit too high, since you might've missed the little fact that Blueknight made full-on 3D raycasting in ZC somehow. So I don't think I'm quite up to that level : ) As a tradeoff, I hope to remain extant within this mortal realm.

Yeah it's a shame he disappeared. I was helping him out with that project and it was looking not half bad. But not all was lost - in fact the Zols I drew for that quest ended up getting downsized and used in Linked Seasons! :lol:
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#13 Lüt

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:44 AM

WHAT HAS SCIENCE MITSUKARA DONE?!

Alright, so this basically proves that ZC can be used as a shell to create an engine within an engine. Mind blown. This is so far beyond Z3 scrolling.

The only thing I could possibly suggest is stretching out the horizon line a bit. It's very smooshed at the top, and as the scenery scrolls down toward the much more expanded bottom, it tends to look the world is wrapped around a rolling pin rather than scrolling along a flat surface.

The reason I suggest moving the horizon line upward a bit is that, in photography, they insist on dividing the vertical element of such imagery into thirds instead of halves so that you can favor one part of the image over the other. Take a look at this writeup for multiple photographic examples (a few going as far as sixths) and an explanation of why this is done. I realize you could argue that the subscreen might serve as the cutoff point, however I believe its transparency alone overrides that position, and further, raising it a bit could help with the smooshed look up there that makes the scenery look more round than it should.

Also, I like how optimistic you are about the release date. I'm pretty sure 20-anything would be beyond my scope.



#14 Binx

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:39 AM

Wow. Just wow.



#15 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:17 PM

going to start streaming this there now:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/newjourneysfire


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