Jump to content

Photo

Platformers and Collectathons are Different


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 Anthus

Anthus

    Lord of Liquids

  • Members
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:27 AM

This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot. I strongly believe that these two genres are different. Collectathons have platforming, but I want to explain why I think they are different.

 

Platformers, in my eyes, are games like Sonic (2D and 3D), The Mario games (3D too, more on that later), Shantae, Rayman (all of them), Crash Trilogy, The DKC Trilogy, and most recently, A Hat in Time. Collectathons are games like Banjo, DK64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and Psyhonauts. The former focus more on getting through stages. Sure, you find stuff, but it's more about the journey, then the end. Even though you enter and explore worlds non-linearly in SM64, you are still essentially getting to the end of a stage. Instead of a flag, you get a star. There are two collectibles in SM64. Coins, and Stars (and I guess technically keys, but there's only 3 so..).

 

This game begins to introduce elements that would become staples of the collectathon, but at its core, I still believe it is more about platforming through a "stage", then finding stuff. Rayman 2 is a straight up stage based platformer. It has cages, and Lums. Two collectibles. Cages are completely optional save for the obvious one at the end of each stage, and Lums can be mostly ignored, but you'll need a few to get through certain gates. Sonic? Get through stages FAST. Sonic has stuff you can find in all games, but it's still always (mostly) been about using your skills and abilities to navigate through stages.

 

Collectathons came about after SM64. They function like platformers, but feel the need to "give us more to do" so they are often comprised of sprawling levels with several collectibles, on top of a main MacGuffin. You don't focus on getting through stages as much as you do on finding things within a stage to do to get a reward. I..never got into Banjo (Though from an outsider's eye, it still looks better than DK64 by a small margin). DK64 was fun when I was a kid, but looking back, it is such a slog. I played the Wii U version recently, and yeah, it just wore me down. Unlike the DCK games, where I go through levels, I'm hunting down a bajillion things, traversing the same area again, and again. Back to Mario though, 3D Mario has always kept a balance. Sunshine is about as collectathon as the series gets, but I love that game. Galaxy 1, and 2, and the 3D Land/ World games appeal more to what I personally like about platformers.

 

I don't like the collectathon formula as much as regular platformers. I don't like how it replaced more traditional stage-based platformers when 3D became the norm. That's why I love Rayman 2 so much. It's a real, 3D platformer. It doesn't try to be anything else, and it's a great game because of it. It doesn't need a hub world. It didn't need a million things to find. The levels were fun, unique, and action packed. Collectathons ruined platforming, in some ways, but, I'll admit, there are still good collectathons. I still like the platforming segments in every game mentioned, I just wish there was more of it, cause that's thre best part for me. That's why I play these games. I don't want to find stuff. I want to play a game. Mario 64 is a great balance. Rayman 2 is a great platforming game. DK64, and from what I've seen, Banjo, just kinda take it to the extreme. You got 8-9 worlds in those games, so you'll be spending a lot of time there. SM64 had 15 main levels, with about 6-7 smaller areas. Rayman 2 has 19 unique stages, with about 15 different themes.

 

And, a Hat in Time hits this balance pretty damn nicely too. It's like.. up there, it's a good game. That's the reason I made this thread. If we want this genre as a whole to succeed in 2017+, we need to acknowledge the differences within that genre. It's okay to have different styles, but I feel like any 3D platformer is expected to be a collectahton, but they don't all need to be, and they surely shouldn't all be. This is important so that not everyone on the outside sees this genre as DK64s and Yooka-Laylees, in case they don't like that style.

 

Thoughts?


  • Cukeman likes this

#2 Cukeman

Cukeman

    "Tra la la, look for Sahasrahla. ... ... ..."

  • Banned
  • Location:Hyrule/USA

Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:54 AM

I think SM64 toes the line. It's all level journey focus until you have to revisit levels to get new stuff. Some SM64 and Sunshine stages avoid this problem entirely by having each revisit allow access to a new area, meaning you have several levels combined into one. Other times, if there's no new area in that level to access and you're just getting a star or 100 coins, then it dabbles its toes in collecting. Still, it never goes fully into it, with say, 50 thingamajigs and 25 doodads per area. So yeah, 3D Mario dabbles it toes in collectathon waters, but never becomes one. I can't think of any 2D platformers before SM64 that were about collecting a bunch of stuff in one level. There may have been a few, but seems pretty rare... I guess you could count Pac-Man since you have to collect every dot? But then none are tucked away to discover, they're all in plain sight at once.

 

Collecting can be fun if you already have a fun level, and the pickups just let you explore and discover. Just so long as the level's fun without collectables and they're aren't a ridiculous number it should be fun, right?

 

I haven't played many collectathons, so take my post with a grain of salt. I did like the collectable Garibs in Glover though. And the Gold Skulltulas in OoT. Again, both cases are purely optional and the levels are fully realized without them.



#3 klop422

klop422

    Guess I'm full of monsters and treasure

  • Members
  • Real Name:Not George
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:06 AM

The thing is, I think that the collectathons you mention are also platforms; the two genres are not the same, nor are they different. They just are.

For example, if you were to count Pacman as a collectathon (very simplistic one) that's not a platformer. I don't see why you couldn't have a Hack&Slash which is also a collectathon. You could make one in ZQuest easily enough.

 

I've never actually played a collectathon - I started Banjo-Kazooie when I was young and the game over custscene scared me so much I couldn't play on. Now I've lost the cartridge (along with nearly all my other N64 cartridges, except Mario Kart and Rogue Squadron), so I can't try it again (save emulation, I guess...). I will say, though, the idea of a collectathon is not that appealing to me, as a person who doesn't like 100% something unless I know how exactly to do it. That being said, I've never played one, so they might be fun. As soon as I can, I am going to try Banjo-Kazooie and get over my fears like I did with Adult Link's Hyrule Castle Town.



#4 Avaro

Avaro

    o_o

  • Members
  • Real Name:Robin
  • Location:Germany

Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:18 AM

You're putting collectathons in a bad light there xD I just wanna compare DK64 with BK real quick. I think that since in DK64 you gotta go through the levels with each character, its more tiresome and less fun than BK.

 

But yeah I see what you mean. These 2 things will blend together sometimes. Not sure if we should talk about it, but like whats mario odyssey?



#5 ShadowTiger

ShadowTiger

    The Doctor Is In

  • Members

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

I never really found that much of a purpose in comparing them.  :shrug:  I really like the description of SM64 as having "multiple levels in each level" with each star you're aiming for, as that really was a fantastic way to play the game through. 

 

The way I see Hat In Time is through a slightly similar light, though each "phase" of items you can acquire requiring either different abilities or different skills (Or awarenesses of the level.) to pick up.  So if you want to get the easy items, you can mindlessly walk over them.  If you want to get the harder items, you have to actually think.  So what kind of mindset will you be playing when you go through each level?  Maybe you don't want to pick up anything challenging and just want to finish the game.  That's fine.  Maybe you see an item off in the distance and refuse to leave the level until you've found a way to pick it up!  That's fine too!  As long as you know that you don't actually need any item you can't get yet in order to get that item.  I don't know if you could call it a form of sequence-breaking to pick it up anyway, really.  Like, if you need a double-jump to get an item, but you wall-jump to get it instead.  Different levels of creativity imply different levels of gameplay, I guess.



#6 Anthus

Anthus

    Lord of Liquids

  • Members
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:51 AM

Collecting can be fun if you already have a fun level, and the pickups just let you explore and discover. Just so long as the level's fun without collectables and they're aren't a ridiculous number it should be fun, right?

 

I haven't played many collectathons, so take my post with a grain of salt. I did like the collectable Garibs in Glover though. And the Gold Skulltulas in OoT. Again, both cases are purely optional and the levels are fully realized without them.

 

Yeah, I think that's the core of the difference within the genre. Tying into what ShadowTiger said, it is about having the option. Both styles are okay, and they can be each other, but they don't need to be. Mario also has a lot of things you can do or find optionally, but you relly don't need to unless you want to go off the path, and search for stuff. That's a good move.

 

You're putting collectathons in a bad light there xD I just wanna compare DK64 with BK real quick. I think that since in DK64 you gotta go through the levels with each character, its more tiresome and less fun than BK.

 

But yeah I see what you mean. These 2 things will blend together sometimes. Not sure if we should talk about it, but like whats mario odyssey?

 

I still like collectathons, just not as much as traditional platformers. And yeah, in BK, you do only have one character so that takes the sting out of playing each level 5 times. Really, DK64's problems could have been fixed a lot by just letting you switch your available Kongs on the fly instead of finding a tag barrel.

 

As far Mario Odyssey, I think (hope) it will still focus on navigation based puzzles, and platforming, over finding stuff. From what I've seen, it is more on the SM64 side than the SMG side, but like I said, I think 3D Mario always has a good balance. This game looks a lot bigger, but I still think (hope) it will be good.

 

I never really found that much of a purpose in comparing them.  :shrug:  I really like the description of SM64 as having "multiple levels in each level" with each star you're aiming for, as that really was a fantastic way to play the game through. 

 

The way I see Hat In Time is through a slightly similar light, though each "phase" of items you can acquire requiring either different abilities or different skills (Or awarenesses of the level.) to pick up.  So if you want to get the easy items, you can mindlessly walk over them.  If you want to get the harder items, you have to actually think.  So what kind of mindset will you be playing when you go through each level?  Maybe you don't want to pick up anything challenging and just want to finish the game.  That's fine.  Maybe you see an item off in the distance and refuse to leave the level until you've found a way to pick it up!  That's fine too!  As long as you know that you don't actually need any item you can't get yet in order to get that item.  I don't know if you could call it a form of sequence-breaking to pick it up anyway, really.  Like, if you need a double-jump to get an item, but you wall-jump to get it instead.  Different levels of creativity imply different levels of gameplay, I guess.

 

Options. That's the thing. If I can pick up stuff on the way, that's cool, but then, when the entire focus of the game is finding things, I can get bored. 


  • ShadowTiger likes this


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users