46 replies to this topic

[Nimono]

That's revfan for you...
He thinks it's his duty to tell us
* how hard we can push for a stable release
* what we need and don't need to build our quests
* who we should vote for (him) in SSOTW, and then trys to make us feel guilty if we don't vote for him, and tells us how superior his shot is to the other entries....
and the list goes on.

But then this thread is about Jman leaving isn't it.
And judging by the posts here and at AGN it looks like everyone agrees, the chance of a stable release now is about as good as a snowball chance in .....

I pushed so hard for the release because The Advetures of Robinhood is up to level 7 and it's possible I could have had it completed and released before I put my house on the market no later than April 1st.
Now it's doubtful it will ever be released, since after I move and get set up, I'll have little time for Zelda Classic.
I had hoped it to be my real SwanSong, and contribution to the community.

Some of you newbs, like REVFAN don't know what it's like to spend years and in excess of a 1000 hours on something just to have it left setting on a computer as waste.
NOR do they know what it's like to go year after year expecting a solid stable release only to reach the end without it having ever happened.

At this point I truely don't know if all the time and effort in the ZC community has been worth it or not, because I leave it very disappointed in the way it has all turned out.

A stable release, bug free, would have been so little added effort on the parts of the developers, yet the most important thing didn't seem to make a tinkers damn to them.
The 2.11b10b was almost there, and then from that point it went downhill and is now to the point that the program is totally worthless to try and actually build and release a completed quest in.
Sure, it's a fun play toy, you can build subscreens between crashes, and edit enemies between crashes, but you can't produce a bug free completed quest in it.

Jman tried, but he didn't get the support he needed, that's plain to see.
As for me, like I said, it doesn't really matter anymore because my time has run out.
I don't blame anyone, but I don't look for it to change either.
It will be the same a year from now, as it is today.
Serious quest makers beware, that's all I can say.

I have an honest, not-rude question for you: Are you always like this? I'm just wondering, because most of the time, I'm REALLY pessimistic. I guess I just find that the bad outweighs the good by a LOT. Do you ever feel that way? I think you should at least have faith in the devs for at least one more beta. Who knows? _L_ might even give up those ideas he has until after 2.5 and just work on bugfixes... Hey, it could happen!

My point is this: Never lose hope.

[Freedom]

I have an honest, not-rude question for you: Are you always like this? I'm just wondering, because most of the time, I'm REALLY pessimistic. I guess I just find that the bad outweighs the good by a LOT. Do you ever feel that way? I think you should at least have faith in the devs for at least one more beta. Who knows? _L_ might even give up those ideas he has until after 2.5 and just work on bugfixes... Hey, it could happen!

My point is this: Never lose hope.

I have an honest, not-rude question for you
How many times do you hit yourself on the thumb with a hammer before you decide to put it down?

I've been beta testing Zelda Classic since the 193A3 expecting a stable release, when do you reach the conclusion it isn't going to happen?
After a year?
Two years?
five years?
When do you go from being an optimist to a pessimist, after breaking your thumb the 3rd time?
the fourth time?

For me, it's been 5 plus years with Zelda Classic, I built the first, of the 10 quests I released, in the 1.90, and I had the 1.84 and used it before the 1.90 was ever released, so I think I've had a reasonable amount of patience over all.

I really don't think I'm being a pessimist, I'm just looking at the history of the last 5 years, it never happened then, so I see no reason to believe it's just going to somehow magically happen now, and Jman, being the only one that was really pushing for a stable release, leaving doesn't make me believe that the odds will now increase.

[/M/]

The message is that the devs know that bugfixing is the top priority, and the community just can't see it as they can't look at how the source code is updated and fixed up constantly. Well, unless they attend chat and talk with the developers a lot. The message is: Shut up and let the devs spend their time fixing bugs instead of harassing us.

Your not included as a DEV. Sorry. And you are wrong, the DEV do not know that bug fixing is the top priority. If this was true, we wouldn't have most of them focusing on adding more features on b.16, instead of fixing the current bugs. We all like the features, but a stable release would be the best of them all.

[Nimono]

I have an honest, not-rude question for you
How many times do you hit yourself on the thumb with a hammer before you decide to put it down?

I've been beta testing Zelda Classic since the 193A3 expecting a stable release, when do you reach the conclusion it isn't going to happen?
After a year?
Two years?
five years?
When do you go from being an optimist to a pessimist, after breaking your thumb the 3rd time?
the fourth time?

For me, it's been 5 plus years with Zelda Classic, I built the first, of the 10 quests I released, in the 1.90, and I had the 1.84 and used it before the 1.90 was ever released, so I think I've had a reasonable amount of patience over all.

I really don't think I'm being a pessimist, I'm just looking at the history of the last 5 years, it never happened then, so I see no reason to believe it's just going to somehow magically happen now, and Jman, being the only one that was really pushing for a stable release, leaving doesn't make me believe that the odds will now increase.

Sorry I asked.... I was just curious, that's all. Is that so wrong?

[/M/]

You asked the wrong question, at the wrong time. Freedom has been beta testing maybe 4 years before you even heard of ZC. Don't you think he has a strong reason WHY he is like that?

[Eurysilas]

Well...What can I say? This is quite a bombshell good ol' jman dropped. I have mixed reactions.

My general view, however, is that the chances of a stable Zelda Classic ever being released have just been reduced. BUT NOT ELIMINATED! Got that Freedom, Peteo, and DarkFlameWolf? Yes, I'll agree with you guys that the chance of a stable release has been lessened. But, unlike you guys (and one gal, can't forget her), who seem to want to give up hope (correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption), I still remain hopeful. Yes, jman is gone. Yes, _L_ seems to be a feature churner rather than a bug fixer. Yes, Dark Nation seems to have little time for the development version of Zelda Classic. But there ARE some pluses here. jman said he'd look for a replacement. There HAS to be someone out there that knows C++. It isn't exactly forbidden knowledge to learn the language, and programmers aren't the rarest breed on earth last time I checked. So I'm confident he'll find someone, even if that someone doesn't happen to be as productive as jman himself. Then, you've got Koopa, who to me seems to be a fine programmer. I can see Koopa and _L_ working as a "Dynamic Duo" of sorts. _L_ can churn out new and useful features (which he seems more than willing to do) and Koopa can play bug fixer/fine tuner. Once jman finds his replacement, the Dynamic Duo becomes a Trio, and bug fixes will happen at a faster rate. As for Dark Nation, he's currently engaged in ironing out 2.10, which still benefits the Zelda Classic community in some way. So, as you can see, not ALL hope is lost.

Edited by Ireclan, 19 January 2007 - 10:33 PM.

[Revfan9]

Freedom:

Anti-Abortion groups have been pleading to the court system for how long now, and their pleas have not been answered by anyone. Does that give them the right to blow up the abortion clinics?

[Nimono]

You asked the wrong question, at the wrong time. Freedom has been beta testing maybe 4 years before you even heard of ZC. Don't you think he has a strong reason WHY he is like that?

Yeah, you're right. Go ahead and punch me in the face as hard as you can. I don't mind.

[Freedom]

Revfan,
Did someone blow up Zelda Classic?
What's your point?
You seem to have a reality problem.


Matthew,
There was nothing wrong with the question you asked, and I tried to give you a straight forward answer as to why I feel at this point the way I do.
There have been dozens of chances over the years that a stable release could have been put out there, the devs, for whatever reason, just decided not to do it.
That's just the way it is.

I'm sure you've heard the old saying...
"Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result each time, is the definition of insanity"

I fought for a stable release for you as well as me, and for everyone in the ZC community.
It just didn't happen, and maybe it will and maybe it never will, I just know it's now too late for me.

But I'll give it one last shot anyway....

DN,
I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU to release a stable bug free version of Zelda Classic!

[Aribar]

It's probably because I'm relatively new here and the farthest I've ever got in quest-making was testing out some of the program's features, but I don't think this is the end of Zelda Classic. There are lots of 2.10 and lower quests out there, and I'm sure more are still being made. As for those waiting for 2.5... Well, that just gives more time to plan stuff out on paper! More time to plan out levels, think of brilliant puzzles, and write out the small details that will ultimately make something seem more polished.

As others have said, Jman is searching for a replacement. There's surely someone in the ZC community who can step up to the task. It seems sad that he's leaving, but I don't believe someone who is discontent with their work can do their best. This seems like a nice time to wait and see how things play out I suppose... Time to work on sideprojects, think of some new quests, and other such things until work on 2.5 and other Zelda Classic projects gets underway.

[Revfan9]

Revfan,
Did someone blow up Zelda Classic?
What's your point?
You seem to have a reality problem.

Heh... Just because your cries for a stable version haven't been answered yet doesn't mean that they aren't going to be, and that is no reason to do something rash (as the analogy blowing up the building=quitting ZC, although it is an odd one). Also, taken from your perspective, it appears as someone did blow up Zelda Classic.

"Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result each time, is the definition of insanity"

Actually, the same function always presents different results when you look at the quantum world. The Quantum world also seems to work in a similar fashion as social order, from what I have observed...

[DarkFlameWolf]

Freedom, I'd like to take a look at a demo of that robinhood quest. Sounds interesting.

[Sharon Daniel]

Somebody get me a C++ Programming guide!

http://www.google.com

[Bowser Blanchette]

All I can say is that it won't be the same without jman2050.

[Peteo]

Some of you newbs, like REVFAN don't know what it's like to spend years and in excess of a 1000 hours on something just to have it left setting on a computer as waste.
NOR do they know what it's like to go year after year expecting a solid stable release only to reach the end without it having ever happened.

And that's why I'd like to see revfan to just shut up. rev, you're in no position to speak like that to a respectable veteran like Freedom.

We quesmakers who invest so much of our time and effort to make our quests, we have every right to complain and demand for a stable ZC. It's so sad that so few realize it that a stable ZC is must. And I've realized I've been wrong in blaming _L_ for all the problems and ruining ZC, it's the community and its "more more more" attitude that is ruining and has ruined ZC.

It is very sad and disgusting if we never get a stable ZC, and even more disgusting would be to see huge, epic, high quality and almost finished quests like Robinhood and Lost Isle never see their releases.

Things don't seem compeltely hopeless yet as jman is still "there" and finding new developers, but currently the only active developer seems to be _L_. I'd really like to hear what koopa and DN are up to, or have they done anything ZC related in ages? I just get the feeling the answer is no, but I'm just assuming here and it would be so relieving to hear from them that their still working on ZC. DN, I see you you are constantly viewing this thread, why don't you say anything?? >_<

And to all the people who wonder why me, DWF, Freeodm, and lots of other people are so negative, well just read thruough this thread again. Only 1 developer seems to be doing something, and it seems like bugfixing isn't his #1 priority. Now how are we supposed to have hope for a stable ZC, especially after being let down and lied to so many times?
I really wanna believe that ZC 2.5 will happen some day, or if it doesn't, then at least I pray that some of the developers would help Me, Freedom and DFW to fix certain bugs that we could release our quests.