206 replies to this topic

[The Satellite]

I've beaten eight zones so far and I must say that this game is even better than expected. Even the remixed stages feel brand new; most of them start off looking exactly the same as the originals but the design changes quickly and even throws in brand new gimmicks. It would almost be fair to say that you could slap on a new name and palette and no one would know it was meant to be said original zone. And the new zones are quite fun and unique as well. The special stages are also quite awesome, though can get frustrating but I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Trying to take my time with it as well and not blaze through it, even though Blaze the Cat isn't in this game.

[Koh]

I don't have a Switch yet, so I'll be getting this on steam as soon as it comes out. I'll probably get it on Switch too, cause I hate money.

 

And I'm the person Kurt91 is talking about. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to play a puzzle game. I didn't like MBM (and I still shudder when recounting my reaction to it on Mega Collection), and I never cared for any of these candy breaking, color matching games. Keep it out of mah platformers, at least as far as requiring it. 

All the videos up of the boss right now...make me cringe.  How can anyone actually struggle so much just to make a simple two chain?  Like really XD.  IT's inconceivable!  Even my 8 year old self with MBM could do a bloody 2 chain easily D8!

Edited by Koh, 18 August 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Anthus]

All the videos up of the boss right now...make me cringe.  How can anyone actually struggle so much just to make a simple two chain?  Like really XD.  IT's inconceivable!  Even my 8 year old self with MBM could do a bloody 2 chain easily D8!

 

Yeah, I'll admit I kind of have a bad attitude about it. I was probably 11-12 when I played MBM for the first time, and I was just like.. what is this? Why is this? Who am I? I just have never been a fan of puzzle games. I tried to play MBM a little bit, but I just didn't know exactly what I was supposed to do, or rather, I didn't know how to do it well.

[TheLegend_njf]

I've been rather focal about my disapproval of the Emerald Bonus Levels in this game. I've been watching Mike Metei from Cinemassacre play them, and they seem unfair at best. It's like Ice feet running on ice. There's no traction.

 

I know the classic Sonic games always had poor Emerald Stages that always annoyed people, but they were fair if you gave them a fair chance. But this game will have you redoing these courses over and over again just out of sheer bad design. I haven't seen Emerald Stages this bad since Sonic Heroes. (Then again I haven't paid much attention to this series since Sonic Heroes). 

 

Other than that, the game looks pretty solid. 

[The Satellite]

I don't think they're unfair at all. There's a slight amount of trial-and-error but it's still mainly determined by your own ability. It takes a bit of getting used to but I honestly think these might be my favorite kind of special stage now.

 

Also, coincidentally, Sonic Heroes was the last 3D Sonic game to have bonus stages for the Chaos Emeralds.

 

Sort of. Sonic Colors had this weird method of collecting the Chaos Emeralds by getting red rings in the normal stages and then going to a selection of "bonus levels" that play like the main gameplay. Beating these nets you the Chaos Emeralds. It was odd.

[Rambly]

I know the classic Sonic games always had poor Emerald Stages that always annoyed people, but they were fair if you gave them a fair chance. But this game will have you redoing these courses over and over again just out of sheer bad design.

Care to explain why they're poorly designed?  Not saying I disagree (I'm on the fence), but it might help your point more if you have some reasoning behind it.  I'm certainly having trouble with a couple of them, but they're not that bad.  Personally I don't think they're that slippery and the loss of control at higher speeds is, I think, meant to test your ability to control Sonic in general and make things more tense.  I definitely wouldn't describe them as being icy.  I also certainly don't agree that Sonic 1's or 2's special stages were fair -- 1's are just obnoxious bullshit both in concept and design (you wanna talk about not having any control over anything, Sonic 1's special stages fit that description), and 2's frequently have design that's really obviously meant to troll the player (here's some spikes right after some rings that you can't see until it's too late!!!).
 

To be fair the let's player I watched sucked at MBM and still won first try.

I'm horrible trash can garbage at Puyo Puyo, and I've yet to lose that boss.  It's pretty free; the Robotnik AI is probably deliberately pretty awful.

 

Anyway, just finished this game and not only is it great, and -- this might be blasphemous -- it might honestly be the best 2D Sonic.  Certainly it's better than 1 and 3&K and it might unseat 2 and CD for me; I'm not sure yet.  The course design is complex and branches out in the same way that Sonic 2's best stages do, it's frequently beautiful, especially Press Garden Act 2 and Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon (the new zones which were actually the best and if there's ever a Sonic Mania 2 made up entirely of new zones I will be very happy), and it's just full of a ton of heart and character.  It feels exciting and fresh the way the Genesis games probably did when they first game out, it doesn't feel like lame nostalgia milking yet still manages to capture the essence of what made the classic games great... there are recent "reboot" games that don't do that nearly as well as this one (Sonic 4 just joylessly borrowed superficial elements of the games it was a sequel to and innovated none; A Link Between Worlds is great, but it doesn't really feel like A Link to the Past).
 

A lot of people trying to make retro-inspired games really really need to take cues from this -- don't just take the old game and copy it verbatim, take it and be faithful to it, but build upon it, do new cool shit with it, add to it.  That's how you do old things justice.

I WAS RIGHT DAMMIT

Edited by Rambly, 19 August 2017 - 07:13 PM.

[Cukeman]

Holy crap! I just realized my sibling left their XBox One at our house, we never really use it for anything except streaming 'cause we've only got a couple games for it (which I'm not interested in), but I think I can get Sonic Mania on it, that will be awesome!

 

EDIT: Bought it

Edited by Cukeman, 20 August 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Espilan]

It's pretty free; the Robotnik AI is probably deliberately pretty awful.

It is. My brother's never touched any form of Puyo Puyo before (and it showed, in a complete lack of combos) and he still got through the thing without any real sort of difficulty save for a little bit of garbage that the AI managed to dump. Also, to me, it feels easier than some of the earliest levels in Puyo Puyo Tetris.

[Cukeman]

I've made it to

Oil Ocean

 
This is my first time playing Sonic on an XBox One on a large flatscreen. The d-pad isn't perfect, but I'm managing reasonably well. Sonic is definitely a different experience on a large screen, I'm used to playing it on my 13" where I can get the full picture directly in front of me and have a more instantaneous awareness of everything that's going on. On a large screen like this, there are things happening further out in your peripheral vision and that makes it more challenging because I can't focus on 100% of the screen as easily. Probably wouldn't be an issue if I had a longer controller cord.
 
I'm not worried about getting through this game too fast. Any honest 2D Sonic fan knows that if you continued after a game over then you didn't REALLY beat the game. And I've gotten several game overs, which is great- shows the game's not too easy.
 
The special stages are certainly well-hidden, I've only entered 3 times and seen one or two that I couldn't get into because I was on the wrong side of a wall. I haven't been on an intentional hunt for them though. Remember, it's not a good ending if you don't get all the emeralds.
 
I never tried to get all the rings in Blue Sphere in previous games, so it's going to be a long time until I get all the gold medals.
 
My ranking of the series is:
 
1. Sonic CD
2. Sonic & Knuckles
3. Sonic 3
4. Sonic
5. Sonic 2
 
It's not fair to judge until I finish the game, but so far I'd say it's tied with Sonic & Knuckles for second place. Sonic Mania is certainly as good or better than the Genesis games, but I can totally understand if this game falls just short of whatever your favorite game is simply because each game has a different flavor and mechanics. I never got to play Knuckles' Chaotix. I own it, but it always freezes on me a couple minutes into the first area. Why the heck haven't they ported it?
 
My favorite part of this game by far is that it brings the Genesis series closer to the design sensibilities of Sonic CD. I LOVE that.
 
I was a little confused that you didn't start the game with the super peel-out and drop dash, I didn't realize you had to unlock them. That's probably the only real issue I've had with this game so far, the levels don't feel like they were designed with the super peel-out in mind. Sonic CD plays at a much more breakneck speed than the Genesis line, which has more of a focus on puzzle-ish level mechanics. Sonic CD's levels are designed to take full advantage of your increased speed capabilities and I strongly suspect that Sonic Mania will play like a Genesis game with the super-peel out thrown in as an unlockable- neat, but not fully integrated, meaning it won't be that useful or practical in this environment. It's like the Mega Man games; you're going to design the levels differently depending on whether or not the player has the charge shot available to them. This is more of a personal preference than a flaw, I love how Sonic CD plays, so I prefer that style of level design over that of the Genesis games. I still love the Genesis games, and this has excellent levels in that style, and even brings in some of the design elements from Sonic CD, so overall it's really great, that's just the one small thing that's holding this game back from being tied with or topping my number one. The music doesn't quite live up to Sonic CD either, but it's still fantastic.
 
I love the updated graphics and music. Some of the zones we've seen in other Sonic games do a great job of mixing things up while others don't feel as changed up as they might have been. That's not really anything more than a minor observation though. I haven't seen any zones from Sonic 3 yet, hopefully there will be one, I'd be down for a zone from Knuckles' Chaotix too. I get why we're revisiting zones, and it's cool, but we don't need to do keep doing that going forward.
 
I am so down for another Sonic game from these developers. Yes please!
 
EDIT:

a few spoilers

I really like how we've expanded on the eggbots from Sonic & Knuckles rather than having a gang of random monsters from another world.
 
A rainstorm hasn't been seen in 2D Sonic before? That realization stunned me. This one simple weather effect feels so fresh here. Also the electric gates were cool.
 
It's strange when you come across reminders in the game that the developers are aware of more modern Sonic material outside of the Genesis/CD/32X games. I found references to the SonicSatAM show, Triple Trouble, Sonic Fighters, Sega Saturn etc. The fact that it surprises me just shows how great the developers did at making it feel like we're playing a game developed back in the day.

 

EDIT 2:

more spoilers

FUCK Oil Ocean zone. I got like 10 game overs on this cheap crappy zone. I never liked it back in Sonic 2 and it's as bad or worse here than it ever was. All these cheap little things that pop out and grab you. And the boss- you're FORCED to land in the oil which is a one hit kill if you don't jump the fraction of a second you touch it. Even rings won't save you.

 

Also Fuck XBox One, I was in the middle of zone 2 when it said I had been logged off and made me go back to the title screen. The fuck? And it says I can't save the game unless I'm online? Bullshit.

 

On to good things... the remix music in Lava Reef 2 is LEGENDARY! AWESOME, YES!!!!

 

And the mini-Sonic mechanic from Sonic CD is back! I always LOVED that, I never thought I'd get to see that again. SO wonderful!

Edited by Cukeman, 21 August 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[kurt91]

The Drop Dash doesn't need to be unlocked, the Insta-Shield does.

 

And yes, it makes perfect sense for the Insta-Shield and Super Peel-Out to be limited to the "No-Save" mode for the exact reason you described. The levels were not designed for them. They aren't core mechanics for the game to be based around, they were little extras for the people who liked them. Since the levels aren't fully ready for those abilities, they're limited to where they can't do any harm to progression. You know some people would complain about the level design solely because they abused the Super Peel-Out on their main save file and either managed glitches to skip sections of the game, or kept hitting things that they wouldn't have hit had they not used those abilities.

 

The only real complaint that I can think of with those moves is that you can't play a single run-through with both of them active at once. You have to choose between 3&K Sonic or CD Sonic, not a blend of both.

[Cukeman]

How do you drop dash? I haven't been able to figure it out.

 

Saw the credits today, still lots left to do.

[The Satellite]

Hold down the jump button while in midair. No, the game doesn't teach you. Might be in the manual... if there was one!

 

(maybe there's a digital manual but haven't found one for Switch)

[Cukeman]

Yeah I could have used a manual for several of the other new mechanics, rather than trial and error

[Cukeman]

Man I wish Nintendo would follow this lead and make a new Super Mario World in the 16-bit style, rather than this NSMB stuff.

 

Up to 3 emeralds and 11 gold medals (got all the silver), blue sphere and bonus stages are hard, but getting Super Sonic shouldn't be easy (assuming he's in this one- I don't know).

 

I found out the blue ring item can let you get a free life when you're hurt, using rings you've already collected, hehehe

 

Taking your time to grab a lot of rings and rack up lives is really the key to beating this game, if I just played through without going out of my way to get extra lives this game would take me ages to beat (since continuing after a game over is cheating [the old-school Sonic games never let you get away with that until Sonic 3]).

 

Anyway I'm gonna keep practicing blue sphere and bonus stages on my first file until I've completed them all. Then I'll try beating the game with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles using no-save-mode (to make the win legit). I'll also have to try out the modes with Sonic's other moves unlocked.

 

And maybe someday I'll get good enough to get all the emeralds and beat the last boss in no-save-mode, that's when you can truly say you've mastered the game.

[Cukeman]

spoilers

OMG player 2 can be Knuckles? BEST THING EVER! How was this never done before?