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Which are the essential scripts nowadays?


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#1 CastChaos

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:04 AM

Back between 2012 and 2015 it was essential to immediate load scripts like NPC talk and Hold up item. Since they added so much more to the quest with not much effort.

 

What are the scripts nowadays that one should immediately install into the quest file when starting almost any type of quest?

 

Feel free to not read further if you only want to reply on the topic question and not read my usual eternal-flowing thoughts on everything and anything.

 

 

 

I'm just curious, I don't intend to start another now. Only asking to see how things stand.

In fact, stopping to make quests was motivated in big part by that using the engine and its possibilities well requires terribly much scripting, loading of pre-made scripts and setting up FFCs on almost each screen to be loaded with scripts (just as how I did in BBV), which was annoying since as I know there's still no a good IDE and exception handling, which means it takes too long to write, load and compile the scripts and if you download more libraries it's long to merge them and if there's some error, it always was hell to debug the true reason. Not to mention that if there's an FFC with numbers in its argument slots, nothing indicates what parameter is what, so one needs to minimize ZQ, open the scrip file and look up the parameter list directly. And if the number is the ID of any enemy or item, one needs to scrool through the entire item list or enemy list to see which is it, since they are listed alphabetically.

Though I'm straying more than more from the original question with mentioning that instead of adding more and more amazing features between 2006 and now, the usability should have been improved first, with ordering and search in the lists, etc. Even the copy feature is kinda new, with appearing in some 2012 as a convoluted "press this and hold that and press another thing to copy this enemy if maybe it works" method and only since then introducing the "right click, copy" method if I remember well.

 

Look at that! First general post I make in some two years and how much I stray from the topic again. Best not to make a habit again from my posting here.


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#2 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:32 AM

Back between 2012 and 2015 it was essential to immediate load scripts like NPC talk and Hold up item. Since they added so much more to the quest with not much effort.
 
What are the scripts nowadays that one should immediately install into the quest file when starting almost any type of quest?
 
Feel free to not read further if you only want to reply on the topic question and not read my usual eternal-flowing thoughts on everything and anything.
 
 
 
I'm just curious, I don't intend to start another now. Only asking to see how things stand.
In fact, stopping to make quests was motivated in big part by that using the engine and its possibilities well requires terribly much scripting, loading of pre-made scripts and setting up FFCs on almost each screen to be loaded with scripts (just as how I did in BBV), which was annoying since as I know there's still no a good IDE and exception handling, which means it takes too long to write, load and compile the scripts and if you download more libraries it's long to merge them and if there's some error, it always was hell to debug the true reason. Not to mention that if there's an FFC with numbers in its argument slots, nothing indicates what parameter is what, so one needs to minimize ZQ, open the scrip file and look up the parameter list directly. And if the number is the ID of any enemy or item, one needs to scrool through the entire item list or enemy list to see which is it, since they are listed alphabetically.
Though I'm straying more than more from the original question with mentioning that instead of adding more and more amazing features between 2006 and now, the usability should have been improved first, with ordering and search in the lists, etc. Even the copy feature is kinda new, with appearing in some 2012 as a convoluted "press this and hold that and press another thing to copy this enemy if maybe it works" method and only since then introducing the "right click, copy" method if I remember well.
 
Look at that! First general post I make in some two years and how much I stray from the topic again. Best not to make a habit again from my posting here.


We are in fact, hoping to address some of these issues in 2.60. I suppose we shall see what develops as we progress with that, but it is something that we're arware as a sort of 'not fun' factor when using ZQuest, scripts, and the various listers. I might be in favour of a UI change, overall, for how GUI listers are handled.

You can view some of the 2.60 Improvements that I introduced, by viewing the videos in that link. The plan is much bigger than this, but it should give you some idea on the level of progress with editor options that I've accomplished on my front of things.

As far as critical scripts, it is ultimately a decision of what you want to accomplish with a quest. I never design a quest around the scripts in use, but rather, the opposite. The typical situation, is that user-X wants to accomplish some abstract goal, asks for help, and if they do not want enemies or bosses, I typically give them something.

If they want enemies or bosses, they are stuck waiting for Moosh, or someone else, to care.

Most of the projects with which I am visibly involved, are heavily scripted. I'd say that the pit mechanic is typical today, as are scripted items and weapons; and scripted enemies.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 05 August 2017 - 08:36 AM.

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#3 Moosh

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 04:56 PM

For the most part, the usual scripts are all the same: NPC script, item message script, pit script, and ghost. A new addition for people who want non NES bosses but don't want to learn ghost or just don't have the time is my Newbie Boss script. It's a customizable ghosted enemy with a bunch of different behaviors you can assign in the editor.


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#4 Shane

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 07:03 PM

It really depends on the quest you want to make. Something really akin to Zelda 1 it would probably be ideal to just use the editor, if you're going for something stroy-driven it probably would be best to add the NPC script. Something with custom items could probably use the item message script. It depends on the direction of the quest IMO and I personally don't believe there's a universal "essential list of scripts" for each and every project. I don't think they're essential either way, but they definitely would be essential to enhancing the experience you're going for.

 

But most common, but not essential scripts are usually things as simple as being able to talk to NPCs, falling down pits, item messages... But I'm basically echoing everyone else now at this point. :P I second using Moosh's boss script though, I haven't personally tried it myself yet but the concept is too great to pass up especially if you don't wanna use the NES bosses.


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#5 Shoshon the Elegant

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:52 AM

The way I see it, no script is essential. There were plenty of good quests before scripting.

However, what I would consider the most useful from personal experience are...

1. NPC Script
2. Item Message Pickup Script
3. Newbie Boss Script

#6 CastChaos

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:48 AM

Thank you all!

 

So indeed item message and NPC, and what I forgot, the pit script. And the only one I haven't heard about, the Newbie Boss.

 

I also didn't know there aren't everybody all for having as many scripts as possible, nowadays.



#7 judasrising

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:06 PM

I would atleast add a shop script to that list ,and i have the shop script ZoriaRPG posted while ago on this site.It is a great addon to a smaller quest.


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#8 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 01:25 AM

The main thing, is to decide on your goals, and plot out what needs scripts, and what would benefit from them. I write my own, so I tend to use them even if there is some way to do things sing the raw editor, as it is easier, and I have more control.

 

P.S. CastChaos, it's nice to see that you are still around.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 07 August 2017 - 01:31 AM.


#9 Twilight Knight

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:58 AM

I would say that the most essential script is my "have item => permanent secret" script. I don't believe my script is unique, surely others have made something similar. But in case I never shared it:

ffc script gate{
  void run(int m) {
    // Wait until Link has the required item
    while(!Link->Item[m]) Waitframe();

    //Trigger permanent secrets if he does
    Screen->TriggerSecrets();
    Screen->State[ST_SECRET]=true;
  }
}

I called it gate, because I first needed this script when making a gate on a screen. On that screen, a NPC would let you through if you talk to him. And after that I found so many uses for it: auto side warp after picking up an item (to mimic the Triforce piece pickup), letting NPCs disappear after saving them from a prison, etc.

 

Otherwise the most useful scripts have been mentioned already.

 

I also like the idea of implementing references, like the script parameter references in the FFC editor. But I imagine the current UI is unfit for such additions. Also, there is a Zscript editor out there I believe and at least the compiler detects syntax errors. To make ZC so advanced it would also be able to detect runtime errors, is quite difficult I bet. But I like the direction you are going with 2.6 ZoriaRPG. :) 


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#10 Anthus

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:05 PM

I would say that the most essential script is my "have item => permanent secret" script. I don't believe my script is unique, surely others have made something similar. But in case I never shared it:

ffc script gate{
  void run(int m) {
    // Wait until Link has the required item
    while(!Link->Item[m]) Waitframe();

    //Trigger permanent secrets if he does
    Screen->TriggerSecrets();
    Screen->State[ST_SECRET]=true;
  }
}
I called it gate, because I first needed this script when making a gate on a screen. On that screen, a NPC would let you through if you talk to him. And after that I found so many uses for it: auto side warp after picking up an item (to mimic the Triforce piece pickup), letting NPCs disappear after saving them from a prison, etc.

Otherwise the most useful scripts have been mentioned already.

I also like the idea of implementing references, like the script parameter references in the FFC editor. But I imagine the current UI is unfit for such additions. Also, there is a Zscript editor out there I believe and at least the compiler detects syntax errors. To make ZC so advanced it would also be able to detect runtime errors, is quite difficult I bet. But I like the direction you are going with 2.6 ZoriaRPG. :)

Do you mind if I use this? I was thinking of something like this and it pops a lot simpler than I thought. :)
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#11 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 03:27 AM

I would say that the most essential script is my "have item => permanent secret" script. I don't believe my script is unique, surely others have made something similar. But in case I never shared it:

ffc script gate{
  void run(int m) {
    // Wait until Link has the required item
    while(!Link->Item[m]) Waitframe();

    //Trigger permanent secrets if he does
    Screen->TriggerSecrets();
    Screen->State[ST_SECRET]=true;
  }
}
I called it gate, because I first needed this script when making a gate on a screen. On that screen, a NPC would let you through if you talk to him. And after that I found so many uses for it: auto side warp after picking up an item (to mimic the Triforce piece pickup), letting NPCs disappear after saving them from a prison, etc.
 
Otherwise the most useful scripts have been mentioned already.
 
I also like the idea of implementing references, like the script parameter references in the FFC editor. But I imagine the current UI is unfit for such additions. Also, there is a Zscript editor out there I believe and at least the compiler detects syntax errors. To make ZC so advanced it would also be able to detect runtime errors, is quite difficult I bet. But I like the direction you are going with 2.6 ZoriaRPG. :)

I do not recall if I posted a video for this, but Screen->TriggerSecret(int type) is in there, and has been since July. I'm mentioning this as it feels topical.

There are four of us routinely working on different aspects of the programme. DD has already planned to add editor refs, so we'll see what happens. Adding runtime debugging is something that seems unlikely, for the present, although you can do quite a lot of that, manually; however changing code without recompiling would never be practical for ZScript, so, you couldn't change it in ZQuest, and view the output in ZC (in a quest that is already running) as it works at present.
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#12 Twilight Knight

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 06:14 AM

Of course, Anthus! You can combine this small script with many nifty things, I especially recommend the string control codes.

 

And that all sounds very interesting ZoriaRPG, can't wait to see it in action.


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#13 judasrising

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 06:48 AM

Of course, Anthus! You can combine this small script with many nifty things, I especially recommend the string control codes.

 

And that all sounds very interesting ZoriaRPG, can't wait to see it in action.

And myself love that gate script very simple but it offers alot of cool things to play around with it.....


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#14 vaualbus

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 04:59 PM

Back between 2012 and 2015 it was essential to immediate load scripts like NPC talk and Hold up item. Since they added so much more to the quest with not much effort.

 

What are the scripts nowadays that one should immediately install into the quest file when starting almost any type of quest?

 

Feel free to not read further if you only want to reply on the topic question and not read my usual eternal-flowing thoughts on everything and anything.

 

 

 

I'm just curious, I don't intend to start another now. Only asking to see how things stand.

In fact, stopping to make quests was motivated in big part by that using the engine and its possibilities well requires terribly much scripting, loading of pre-made scripts and setting up FFCs on almost each screen to be loaded with scripts (just as how I did in BBV), which was annoying since as I know there's still no a good IDE and exception handling, which means it takes too long to write, load and compile the scripts and if you download more libraries it's long to merge them and if there's some error, it always was hell to debug the true reason. Not to mention that if there's an FFC with numbers in its argument slots, nothing indicates what parameter is what, so one needs to minimize ZQ, open the scrip file and look up the parameter list directly. And if the number is the ID of any enemy or item, one needs to scrool through the entire item list or enemy list to see which is it, since they are listed alphabetically.

Though I'm straying more than more from the original question with mentioning that instead of adding more and more amazing features between 2006 and now, the usability should have been improved first, with ordering and search in the lists, etc. Even the copy feature is kinda new, with appearing in some 2012 as a convoluted "press this and hold that and press another thing to copy this enemy if maybe it works" method and only since then introducing the "right click, copy" method if I remember well.

 

Look at that! First general post I make in some two years and how much I stray from the topic again. Best not to make a habit again from my posting here.

 Ya you have the same I have the editor of zquest is annoying a lot of the time. 

But I think two things should be added:

      - First If you add globals to the scipts would be great to have not to restart the quest from 0. I know that is difficult to iplement but it is possible to do I think.

      - As chat said the scripts menagement is tricky in a lot of aspect and not "user friendly"

      - Possible made a way to auto reload quest file if changed? So you made a modification the quest file and you have not to restrt the quest? 

      - And than as I think you guys are doing thinking about 3.0 release switch to a full C/C++  lenguage so we can support structs and classes in scripts, and maybye pointers?? 

         - Also as a jocking suggestion, get rid of allegro and make a custom 2d/3d opengl/vulkan renderer. 

 

I agree with the others for the essentials scripts, build your quest and see what you need really, but for would be tango for text and ghost for enemy

 

Despite all of this my quest is there sit with no work because I decide to build a 3d game from scratch in C/C++ so that is more interesting....


Edited by vaualbus, 02 October 2017 - 05:07 PM.


#15 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:59 PM

Ya you have the same I have the editor of zquest is annoying a lot of the time. 
But I think two things should be added:
      - First If you add globals to the scipts would be great to have not to restart the quest from 0. I know that is difficult to iplement but it is possible to do I think.
      - As chat said the scripts menagement is tricky in a lot of aspect and not "user friendly"
      - Possible made a way to auto reload quest file if changed? So you made a modification the quest file and you have not to restrt the quest? 
      - And than as I think you guys are doing thinking about 3.0 release switch to a full C/C++  lenguage so we can support structs and classes in scripts, and maybye pointers?? 
         - Also as a jocking suggestion, get rid of allegro and make a custom 2d/3d opengl/vulkan renderer. 
 
I agree with the others for the essentials scripts, build your quest and see what you need really, but for would be tango for text and ghost for enemy
 
Despite all of this my quest is there sit with no work because I decide to build a 3d game from scratch in C/C++ so that is more interesting....


Grayswandir is working on structs. ZScript does have pointers though. What do you wish to do that requires user defined pointers?


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