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Nintendo ID Claims Youtube LPs


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#76 Koh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:09 AM

"Your video is not eligible if it contains content that you didn't create or get permission from its creator to use. You need to be able to show written permission for the following video elements: Audio: recorded music, live performances, cover songs, background music, etc. Visuals: images, logos, software, video game footage, etc. Any other content you don't own worldwide commercial usage rights to."

 

So basically, they dug their own grave from the beginning.

NoeL, it goes back to this.  Look at what they agreed to.  Did they not set themselves up for failure from the beginning?  It's like signing a contract without reading it.  You just don't do it.



#77 Nimono

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

What Nintendo are doing is notifying Youtube that a non-Nintendo account is using their content without permission. Nintendo then has the option of removing the video from Youtube as it breaches copyright, but Youtube ALSO gives them the option to be recognised as the owners of the video in question (which is what they're doing). This not only allows Nintendo to control the advertising on said video, but they also get all the revenue generated from hosting those ads - revenue that would have otherwise gone to the person that posted the video in the first place.

 

So where before a person could upload a video of them playing a game and earn money from people viewing that video (because of the ads attached to it), now that money goes to Nintendo instead of the player. People (including myself) think this is wrong because the LPers that generate a lot of traffic do so because THEY are quality entertainers that people want to watch play games. They don't get a lot of hits just because they're showing a game - a LP with boring/no commentary very rarely gets a lot of views. Next to no one cares about seeing gameplay footage - if they're interested in the game it's because they want to play it. So the money that Youtubers make as entertainers is almost entirely due to them being entertaining, and as such are the ones that deserve the revenue generated by people watching - NOT the game publishers.

Explain to me where it says the LP'er NEVER sees any of this money, because I never once read that in the article. I'm very confused as to how you're seeing "Nintendo is screwing over LP'ers" from this... All I ever read in that article was "Nintendo has now become a youtube partner, which lets people choose to put Nintendo-themed ads on their videos if they contain Nintendo content." I also have some evidence supporting the notion that they wouldn't screw them over at all, as I've been stating multiple times.



#78 Shoelace

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

Explain to me where it says the LP'er NEVER sees any of this money, because I never once read that in the article. I'm very confused as to how you're seeing "Nintendo is screwing over LP'ers" from this... All I ever read in that article was "Nintendo has now become a youtube partner, which lets people choose to put Nintendo-themed ads on their videos if they contain Nintendo content." I also have some evidence supporting the notion that they wouldn't screw them over at all, as I've been stating multiple times.

 

I am partner.  If Nintendo content Claims my video, that means they get the money from the views from my video.  Meaning I get no money while they do.  And, I am not even talking about just LP's.  Anything that I created like Freddy Firestone, my top ten videos, video game quizzes, reviews, etc.



#79 Koh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:00 PM

I am partner.  If Nintendo content Claims my video, that means they get the money from the views from my video.  Meaning I get no money while they do.  And, I am not even talking about just LP's.  Anything that I created like Freddy Firestone, my top ten videos, video game quizzes, reviews, etc.

If it extends to videos beyond what they ID claimed, then it's a problem Youtube needs to fix with their system.  But as you read above, what I quoted from their monetization agreement page, you knew you were in hot water when you decided to make money off of LP videos in the first place, unless, you didn't read the page and flew past it.  That's essentially the same as blindly signing a contract.


Edited by Koh, 26 May 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#80 NoeL

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:26 PM

NoeL, it goes back to this.  Look at what they agreed to.  Did they not set themselves up for failure from the beginning?  It's like signing a contract without reading it.  You just don't do it.

The thing about contract law is that you can't legally sign away your rights. Even if you sign a contract and agree to a set of terms and conditions, if those terms impede any of your personal rights the contract is void. If you can make the argument that LPers are the legal owners of their videos then Youtube can't give ad revenue to a third party claiming the video is theirs - regardless of what the T&C state.

 

Secondly, one can very easily point to the enormous volume of game-related videos as evidence of Youtube not enforcing their own T&C. If Youtube are happy to sit back and earn money off of videos that they know violate their T&C then they have no grounds to target a specific instance of the breach. They have to either take action against all videos that are in breach (to the best of their ability) or take action against none.



#81 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:43 PM

What Nintendo are doing is notifying Youtube that a non-Nintendo account is using their content without permission. Nintendo then has the option of removing the video from Youtube as it breaches copyright, but Youtube ALSO gives them the option to be recognised as the owners of the video in question (which is what they're doing). This not only allows Nintendo to control the advertising on said video, but they also get all the revenue generated from hosting those ads - revenue that would have otherwise gone to the person that posted the video in the first place.

 

So where before a person could upload a video of them playing a game and earn money from people viewing that video (because of the ads attached to it), now that money goes to Nintendo instead of the player. People (including myself) think this is wrong because the LPers that generate a lot of traffic do so because THEY are quality entertainers that people want to watch play games. They don't get a lot of hits just because they're showing a game - a LP with boring/no commentary very rarely gets a lot of views. Next to no one cares about seeing gameplay footage - if they're interested in the game it's because they want to play it. So the money that Youtubers make as entertainers is almost entirely due to them being entertaining, and as such are the ones that deserve the revenue generated by people watching - NOT the game publishers.

Well Let's Players should buy licenses to commercialize the use of Nintendo products because that is essentially what they are doing. The car argument you made was pretty poor too, you can't achieve any experience remotely similar to actually sitting in a car, by watching a video where as you can with a video of a video game.

 

basically you want the ability to take someone else's work and resell it for a profit, but passively via advertisements.



#82 Koh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:01 PM

The thing about contract law is that you can't legally sign away your rights. Even if you sign a contract and agree to a set of terms and conditions, if those terms impede any of your personal rights the contract is void. If you can make the argument that LPers are the legal owners of their videos then Youtube can't give ad revenue to a third party claiming the video is theirs - regardless of what the T&C state.

 

Secondly, one can very easily point to the enormous volume of game-related videos as evidence of Youtube not enforcing their own T&C. If Youtube are happy to sit back and earn money off of videos that they know violate their T&C then they have no grounds to target a specific instance of the breach. They have to either take action against all videos that are in breach (to the best of their ability) or take action against none.

But they can't.  If someone dares take this matter to court, I've no doubt in my mind the courts would favor in Nintendo (and not even because of their lawyer count), and would probably have LPs outlawed altogether, or at least the monetization of them from anyone else but the producers of the game.  I seriously want someone to try.  The sooner it happens, the sooner everything becomes black and white, and not gray.

 

I really don't care about all of this to be honest, because I've never once tried to make money off of any of my playthroughs (I don't do LPs, just playthroughs).  Not because I have no confidence in my view count, or jealousy, or anything that people think are the reasons, but fail to actually pinpoint that I'm just doing this because I like to play the games.  Recording what I do is another way to place it in history, as video proof of "I did this!"  Who cares about the pocket change I could get from this?  As long as I'm entertained by the GAMES, which is what LPs should be about anyway, focused on talking about the GAME, that's all that matters to me.

 

My channel is dedicated to bringing out the unknown and not so popular games out to the public.  Everyone and their grandma does the popular stuff like Skyrim or Call of Duty, or whatever else a million people have heard of, but I like to touch on the games (and game soundtracks if I can get my hands on it) that have only struck a few ears.


Edited by Koh, 26 May 2013 - 10:06 PM.


#83 NoeL

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:59 PM

Well Let's Players should buy licenses to commercialize the use of Nintendo products because that is essentially what they are doing. The car argument you made was pretty poor too, you can't achieve any experience remotely similar to actually sitting in a car, by watching a video where as you can with a video of a video game.

 

basically you want the ability to take someone else's work and resell it for a profit, but passively via advertisements.

That's what Machinima have done with Microsoft properties for the machinima they create and what Amazon are now doing to allow the retail of fan fics, so I can get behind that argument.

 

Why do you think watching a video game with no sense of autonomy is different to watching the interior of a car with no sense of autonomy? I don't see the difference.

 

I also disagree with your implication that an LP is "someone else's work". Yes, I agree it's utilising the same IP and even the same art assets, but it's a derivative work - just like a fan fiction. The game publisher doesn't own the choices a player makes within their game.

 

 

I really don't care about all of this to be honest,

Good for you? "It doesn't affect me" isn't an argument - and neither is "Well I don't care about making money, so why should anyone else?".



#84 Koh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:44 AM



That's what Machinima have done with Microsoft properties for the machinima they create and what Amazon are now doing to allow the retail of fan fics, so I can get behind that argument.

 

Why do you think watching a video game with no sense of autonomy is different to watching the interior of a car with no sense of autonomy? I don't see the difference.

 

I also disagree with your implication that an LP is "someone else's work". Yes, I agree it's utilising the same IP and even the same art assets, but it's a derivative work - just like a fan fiction. The game publisher doesn't own the choices a player makes within their game.

We've already explained this.  The visual, audio and other elements of a game that you don't have to obtain by playing it (AKA, >ALL< but the immersion) are being broadcast to the entire world.  The only other reason one would have to buy the game is to play it for themselves if they wanted to.  Your car example is bad because the interior of the car doesn't even make it drive-able.  What makes it drive-able is the control and what's under the hood.   What makes a game playable for most people?  Well, you have the graphical whores, the people who are just in it for the story, the people who like the soundtrack, the people who want to experience the story firsthand, and many other groups.  You satisfy all but those who want to play it for themselves.

 

People keep trying to use the "Players make the game, and don't perform EVERY possible action at every pixel" argument, which is really ignorant.  It's just like saying "because I recorded a video of me reading an entire book, but skipping every 5th page, I should be able to sell that."  You're STILL broadcasting a large portion of the contents of something someone would otherwise have to PAY TO SEE, READ, AND EXPERIENCE FOR THEMSELVES for free.  The act of doing something like that in itself is already a gray area, but once you try to make money off of it, you've already put yourself in a legal headlock.  Whatever comes your way, you brought upon your self.

 

Of course this still isn't enough for most people.  They think they're entitled to everything they pay for in ALL aspects, which isn't true.  Just because you buy a game or something else, that doesn't give you commercial rights to that product.  I see this argument all over the place:  "I bought the game, so I should be able to record things about it and sell it," which is also ignorant about commercial usage laws and rights.  The only thing you pay for when you buy a product is the right of access and usage, NOT the right to commercially distribute it.


Edited by Koh, 27 May 2013 - 06:48 AM.


#85 Shane

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:51 AM

I'm guessing Nintendo should also advertise products inside their games then.

 

And the players shouldn't whine about it; they already watched LPs of the games, why buy it in the first place? Gamers these days. :lol:


Edited by Shane, 27 May 2013 - 06:55 AM.


#86 Koh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:54 AM

People like to toss around that "free advertisement" argument a lot too.  Nintendo doesn't need the likes of the LP community to spread word about upcoming games; that's what gaming networks like IGN, Machinima, Kotaku, and etc. are for, as well as the REST OF THE INTERNET.  LPs are naught but a few blades of grass on the wide open lawn of Internet advertisement.


Edited by Koh, 27 May 2013 - 06:54 AM.


#87 Shane

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:56 AM

Yeah, LPers are truly evil things on the internet huh?



#88 Koh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 07:23 AM

Yeah, LPers are truly evil things on the internet huh?

Who said they're evil?  Only the ones trying to make money off of them without first obtaining a license are unethical, but that doesn't make them "evil."  People just make it sound like LPs are the only way for Nintendo to ever spread the word about their content, which they aren't.  There are plenty of other mediums, such as a place like this, Reddit, Facebook, etc.  to do such.  LPs only scratch the surface of advertisement.



#89 Shane

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 07:36 AM

It's still advertisement regardless, and it's popular way of advertising at that. And besides, Nintendo still get millions of dollars in the end even if LPers were still paid. I mean, thanks to a Twilight Princess LP I wanted to rebuy Twilight Princess. Reading a article? I'd yawn and just continue to surf the internet. It's not about the advertisements, it's about looking into a game from another fan's perspective and see what he does and responds to things. It's not the same as a website that advertises games through words and pics.



#90 Koh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

It's still advertisement regardless, and it's popular way of advertising at that. And besides, Nintendo still get millions of dollars in the end even if LPers were still paid. I mean, thanks to a Twilight Princess LP I wanted to rebuy Twilight Princess. Reading a article? I'd yawn and just continue to surf the internet. It's not about the advertisements, it's about looking into a game from another fan's perspective and see what he does and responds to things. It's not the same as a website that advertises games through words and pics.

Other gameplay trailers and showcases are provided to show what the games are capable of.  There's always gameplay videos that are made to show of the mechanics of the game and its gimmicks.  Whatever LPers show, it's of the same regard, except you're seeing the whole contents of the game; story, characters, etc. instead of just the gameplay mechanics.


Edited by Koh, 27 May 2013 - 08:23 AM.



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