126 replies to this topic

[bobby_light]

The reason nearly noone finds Zelda Classic:
Most people take less than 30seconds to try a program. Loading a quest file is so unintuitive that it takes about 1 minute to figure out. Most people give up in the time frame and assume the program doesnt work. So nobody uses it hence nobody finds it. And yes thats what we all forget about it. For people to use it you essentially need to offer it bundled with quests already (renaming the custom quest 1st.qst) so people know the program works.

There's an awful lot of truth to this. It's not the reason people don't *find* ZC, but I think it's a big reason why it doesn't garner more of a following.

Two things would go a long way towards people sticking with ZC, instead of trying it and giving up.

1. Instead of a ZC player and separate quest files, ZQ should generate a single executable that wraps the player and quest into one. This would make games click-to-play, and there would be no more "you have to use version X to play this particular quest with no bugs" nonsense. It would also make quests easier to distribute; just tell your friend, "Here, play this Zelda fan game I made" instead of "download this program, put this .qst file here, etc. etc." It may seem like a small thing to the seasoned vets on this forum, but as aaa2 alludes to, don't underestimate how small a barrier of entry has to be to stop people from doing something.
2. To get more people actually writing quests, ZQ's user interface should be modernized. No more "hidden" shortcuts that nobody would know about without being told about them. All functionality has online doc (which should be accessible from the uI), tooltips/content assist where relevant, etc. The reason ZQ is "hard" at first (to me at least) is that you're just dropped in the editor, there are dialogs with dozens/hundreds of flags and parameters for various things, and little guidance as to how to get started.

[Omega]

A button In ZC that could link to an easier tutorial online? With images or videos to keep their attention? Maybe ZC could come with a save file of the first quest already loaded into a slot with the name "Link" with 0 game time as if they loaded it themselves. Or at least a download for this save file encase the file size becomes a problem. Maybe something other then "Link" could also work. "Test File"?

When people play that and get interested in custom quests they will spend the time to load a custom quest.

Edited by Franky, 08 March 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[Jamian]

There's an awful lot of truth to this. It's not the reason people don't *find* ZC, but I think it's a big reason why it doesn't garner more of a following.

Two things would go a long way towards people sticking with ZC, instead of trying it and giving up.

1. Instead of a ZC player and separate quest files, ZQ should generate a single executable that wraps the player and quest into one. This would make games click-to-play, and there would be no more "you have to use version X to play this particular quest with no bugs" nonsense. It would also make quests easier to distribute; just tell your friend, "Here, play this Zelda fan game I made" instead of "download this program, put this .qst file here, etc. etc." It may seem like a small thing to the seasoned vets on this forum, but as aaa2 alludes to, don't underestimate how small a barrier of entry has to be to stop people from doing something.
2. To get more people actually writing quests, ZQ's user interface should be modernized. No more "hidden" shortcuts that nobody would know about without being told about them. All functionality has online doc (which should be accessible from the uI), tooltips/content assist where relevant, etc. The reason ZQ is "hard" at first (to me at least) is that you're just dropped in the editor, there are dialogs with dozens/hundreds of flags and parameters for various things, and little guidance as to how to get started.

I agree with the first part.

As for the second part, I think there are actually quite a lot of custom quests being released regularly, and there are loads of them in the database, many of them with good ratings. So the number of quests being released/being available is not a problem IMO.

[Russ]

For your first concern Bobby, I believe that ZCM allows you to play quests just by double clicking the .qst file to open it, like you would any other file on Windows. Of course, the issue there is that you'd have to download it and configure it, which would be even more confusing for a newbie. But, if that functionality were integrated into ZC, it would make things much easier for people to understand.

For the second, I agree with you somewhat. I don't want the interface radically changed on me cuz I'm used to it. Heck, I still use small mode, because I know it inside and out. However, more documentation would definitely be a good thing.

[NoeL]

The easiest solution would be to automatically bring up the quest select dialog box whenever you register a new save, rather than having to hit A to get into it. Since most people will be playing a custom quest anyway, this is both more efficient AND makes it impossible for newbies to miss. It'll be akin to running an emulator and loading a ROM.

Also, there really should be something more obvious than the Link icon to differentiate which quest each save slot belongs to - especially since this icon can be the same for different quests. It should have the quest name written underneath the player name or something. For years now I've just been naming the player after the quest, but if I was sharing a computer and had different save games for the one quest this wouldn't work so well.

[aaa2]

The easiest solution would be to automatically bring up the quest select dialog box whenever you register a new save, rather than having to hit A to get into it. Since most people will be playing a custom quest anyway, this is both more efficient AND makes it impossible for newbies to miss. It'll be akin to running an emulator and loading a ROM.

Also, there really should be something more obvious than the Link icon to differentiate which quest each save slot belongs to - especially since this icon can be the same for different quests. It should have the quest name written underneath the player name or something. For years now I've just been naming the player after the quest, but if I was sharing a computer and had different save games for the one quest this wouldn't work so well.

Oh if the A alone would work to choose a new quest then i wouldnt even call it a real problem. However first you have to press alt to even be told that you need to press A. Then when you first press A nothing happens, unless you press alt again after pressing A, which then opens the quest open dialog. Its unintuitive to get to the A prompt, unintuitive to follow it and then also to require people to figure out that they have to press Alt after they followed this prompt is pushing it.

Edited by aaa2, 09 March 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[TheLegend_njf]

Alt is A in this particular case.

Who on earth would guess that? Lol

Hey everybody, try ZC!!! All you have to do is register your name by clicking Register because we are still relying on Zelda 1's stupid method of registering a quest, press "A", or wait, press "Alt" because alt is a, than search for your quest in a 1990's like windows browser interface.

Be sure to look out for ZC 3.0, we will be offering players the choice to code in their quest selection through dos as default, and you'll have to press ctrl+alt+64 to load quests the traditional way. (Clearly joking here, but you get the point).

[Davis-Lightheart]

From an outsider standpoint, I believe I have something to add.

You guys really don't have much of a unified presence outside of these forums. I mean, here you are a strong collective, but everywhere else I find you guys scattered everywhere.

If you want my suggestion you guys should make groups dedicated to Zelda classic in places outside these forums. Like, how about a Zelda Classic Deviantart group dedicated to fan art of the games, or progress of them.

How about a unified youtube channel for Let's Plays, Walkthroughs, Developer commentaries?

A Tumblr, a twitter, a google circle, anything. There's so much you guys could do to advertise outside these forums, but I certainly don't see it.

Edit: You have a facebook account, but you certainly don't do anything with it. The last post was in January talking about how you guys need to advertise to everyone to play Zelda Classic.

Outsiders are attracted to groups who are active and appealing from the outside and have a helpful community to boot.

Edited by Davis-Lightheart, 12 March 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Hoff123]

A unified youtube channel sounds really cool.

[Davis-Lightheart]

Organize something together as a collective, you are a group of some of the best level designers in the fangame community. Surely you can organize something together if you put your minds to it.

And through that collective you can appeal to those around you and garner attention!

But hey that's just my point of view. Take it as you will.

[LinktheMaster]

Well, trust me. These are things that have been on the back of my mind too. We definitely do need to get Zelda Classic out there more. However, I've been waiting for the opportune moment to do that. And that won't be for a month or two.

But, I'm hoping to make an actual PZC Facebook fan page, twitter, and YouTube account. There I'm hoping to be able to frequently post videos and news about Zelda Classic, PureZC, and quests.

[Davis-Lightheart]

Well, trust me. These are things that have been on the back of my mind too. We definitely do need to get Zelda Classic out there more. However, I've been waiting for the opportune moment to do that. And that won't be for a month or two.

But, I'm hoping to make an actual PZC Facebook fan page, twitter, and YouTube account. There I'm hoping to be able to frequently post videos and news about Zelda Classic, PureZC, and quests.

How would that operate? Would it be just you, or a group collective, because if the whole group isn't on board with this then I doubt one person could hold on to it.

Take Zelda dungeon's facebook and Deviantart pages for examples. (Well maybe not their deviantartpage). Those aren't just just held by one person, but an entire collective of dungeoneers participating in posting topics, making new topics, expressing their excitements and concerns for the future of the community. And look at how vast they have grown!

55,659 Likes in comparison to your 80 on Facebook alone. And even their deviantart remains active enough.

A task like this should be brought to the attention of everyone on the community, and everyone should be at least, encouraged to participate in some way if they want to help out. This is not the job for one person to hold.

Now that was just me reading the, "I'm" from your sentence and interpreting it as such.

[LinktheMaster]

Sorry. I definitely don't intend for it to be just me. I don't have the time to focus on it that much. I just meant I wanted to make a push for it to happen. But again, I want a few things to happen first (the new site and a good comprehensive tutorial to be finished).

[Avaro]

Yes a group youtube channel I'd have some videos for it and I'd participate
Don't know if this group idea works on YT though.

[Davis-Lightheart]

What are you planning for build up? If studying the marketting industry has taught me anything, a good hype can be just as effective as any positive change. What will you guys do to show how strong ZC will be; how will it be different from the old image of ZC to make this place seem like it was just as new as the day it was made?

What resources do you have to exploit these plans?

I ask these questions because I do care.

Yes a group youtube channel I'd have some videos for it and I'd participate
Don't know if this group idea works on YT though.

If ZD and ZU can do it through the power of organization and teamwork than so can ZC.

Edit: It takes understanding and calculations. How much time do you guys have to dedicate to such a task, who can work best doing what, who is willing to hold responsibility. Plan and understand and things will go along smoothly.




.... cripes, I sound like I'm at some union organizer rally.

Edited by Davis-Lightheart, 12 March 2013 - 10:46 AM.