22 replies to this topic

[Koh]

I'm not going to say third party games don't help, but I don't think they're as life or death as you guys make them sound.  As long as the first party (where's the second party in all of this, anyway?) games are entertaining and sell well, the console will stay afloat.  Besides as we all know, the system specs are only like an eighth of the battle.  The rest lies within the library of games itself.  A system can be as powerful as it wants o be, but if the library is dull, it'll still flop.  Has no one learned from the atrocities of the Atari 5200 or the Atari Jaguar, or even Sega's 32x or Sega CD?

Edited by Koh, 21 June 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[LinktheMaster]

Koh, I think you're thinking mostly of exclusive titles.

 

IMO, the biggest loss that Nintendo gets is that since the Wii/Wii U are ridiculously underpowered, it's very difficult for companies to release cross platform titles.  Sure, a lot of us may not be interested in EA titles or games like Call of Duty, but these types of games are enormous sellers and comprise a majority of the titles released.  These are games that would help people decide to buy a Wii/Wii U console.

 

It's all really a snowball effect.  It's one relatively small issue that start pulling in other problems that start feeding on themselves.  Obviously 3rd party titles for Nintendo aren't life or death.  But the lack of them are what made the Wii start to dwindled in the last years of its release, and it's one reason why the Wii U had a bad start.

[TheLegend_njf]

What are Nintendo's mistakes anyways?

 

Ask Nintendo, clearly they are admitting to them.

 

But all jokes aside, Nintendo has made mistakes. Probably they have however been blown out of proportion, which usually most issues with Nintendo usually are when it comes to Nintendo hate. (I've been guilty of it myself).

 

I would like to say without a level of bias the mistakes that Nintendo has made in this Wii U, despite if you agree or not:

 

- Developing another underpowered system -  Though some may say that shouldn't matter, wasn't it Nintendo themselves who said they realized the mistake they made with making the Wii underpowered? So if this is not a mistake, why is Nintendo admitting to it? To just agree with us? Even though power ain't everything, I believe being under powered is, because it's human instinct to find things that center themselves out, and usually things that center itself out as the weakest don't get met with praise. 

 

- Poor advertising (according to Nintendo) - Iwata now states that the current failure of the Wii U is because of Nintendo overlooking the importance of making people understand what's great about the Wii U. Thus ruining expected sales.

 

- Not coming through on 3rd party support - Though on the surface this may be out of Nintendo's hands, and in many cases, it actually is, but the boiling point comes back to the very same thing I said about the last fact, Nintendo has failed to make people understand what is great about the Wii U.

 

 

So in conclusion, it appears very well that Nintendo indeed has made mistakes, especially if Iwata is admitting to them. The only possible way you can say they didn't make mistakes is that this all was one big unfortunate turn for Nintendo, and Iwata is wrongfully taking responsibility for mistakes that he and his company did not make (which actually can be possible, because under the pressure that Nintendo is in, it's hard not to take blame, even if Nintendo just may be right, the pressure is enough to make him feel he has to apologies).

 

So, beliefs can go both ways, and there is no real proof that Nintendo has made a mistake here, but what is real is that Nintendo is admitting to them, and that things are still looking very bad for the system. To say that they are doomed is foolish, but I will hold true to my beliefs that there is a lot of grey area that most people just do not understand.

 

So perhaps I'll quote Iwata and say "Please understand"

 

@LTM, the snowball reference explains things perfectly. Good call. 

 

@Russ, after reading your message, the thought of Iwata's apology seems just as shallow as the mistakes he is apologizing for. I'm not sure what it is that you said, but I am further convinced of Iwata's arrogance. They are taking responsibility for making the mistake of not making people understand how great the system is, but are too arrogant to even ask themselves the simple question "Could we be wrong about the Wii U? Should we instead try and understand what our fans are saying instead?" But hell! Nintendo is partly right, the Wii U ain't that bad, but until Nintendo starts approaching to understand their consumers and their 3rd party support more, they can't possibly hope to make anybody understand Nintendo. This is not Nintendo hate, this is proper social science and business, if a company has no interest in what their fans are saying, but instead try to change fan's beliefs with "please understand", I can't possibly motivate a positive attitude here. 

 

But... I am hopeful in Nintendo, and that's positive at least. 

 

 

PS: I understand that you didn't say that Nintendo is not making any mistakes, so if you were asking a question to keep up to speed with Nintendo's situation, I apologies if I came off as a bit rude. I may have read your message incorrectly for it felt that you were trying to insist that my claim on Nintendo making mistakes was just a wrongful judgement. But after reading your message a second time, I admit I have no idea what you were implying. But either way, I hope I answered a few questions.

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 21 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Avaro]

PS: I understand that you didn't say that Nintendo is not making any mistakes, so if you were asking a question to keep up to speed with Nintendo's situation, I apologies if I came off as a bit rude. I may have read your message incorrectly for it felt that you were trying to insist that my claim on Nintendo making mistakes was just a wrongful judgement. But after reading your message a second time, I admit I have no idea what you were implying. But either way, I hope I answered a few questions.

 

It's no problem, I was just wondering what was it, they were doing wrong compared to the other companies. As you said, they admitted that the Wii was not really powerful, and I know that they admitted that, so I though the Wii U would have been more powerful, thus there shouldn't have been a problem with Sony and Microsoft releasing their games on the Wii U and so on. I wasn't aware that it wasn't as great as they promised (maybe thats the poor advertising you mentioned?).

[Nicholas Steel]

The system being underpowered is kinda meh really. The problem is developers not giving a damn about writing efficient code in the first place. Games are too wasteful of resources these days and bloated with weird ass bugs and issues that aren't at all obvious to an end user like memory leaks.

Edited by franpa, 21 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[TheLegend_njf]

It's no problem, I was just wondering what was it, they were doing wrong compared to the other companies. As you said, they admitted that the Wii was not really powerful, and I know that they admitted that, so I though the Wii U would have been more powerful, thus there shouldn't have been a problem with Sony and Microsoft releasing their games on the Wii U and so on. I wasn't aware that it wasn't as great as they promised (maybe thats the poor advertising you mentioned?).

 

I've done some research on the power of the Wii U, and though my findings may be complete bluff, it's said that the Wii U's computer just ain't as powerful as current gen models, let alone next gen models.

 

The Wii U, though advertised as more powerful in the graphics department has been said by developers to have a poor computer. I can only assume computer can mean everything from power to the entire interface, but whatever the case, some 3rd party developers have confirmed that Nintendo's computer can't even match Xbox 360 and PS3, and that is (along with the extra work to make games to work with the gamepad) why developers have been skipping the Wii U in favor of the current models.

 

I believe it will take more than better advertising to fix this. What Nintendo wants is unrealistic. When Nintendo says better advertising, they are claiming they can convince gamers and developers to take the specs way out of the picture and understand their point of view, which has been the same point of view they held for awhile (it's just about the games). Though Nintendo may be right, they fail to understand the business behind it, and that's where they are very wrong.

 

There is no amount of advertising that's going to make gamers and developers suddenly come to the conclusion "Ooooooh!!! It's not that the Wii U is weak! It's that it's such an innovative system! Of course, that's what they were saying all along!!". That's what Nintendo wants to convince us, they are trying their part to convince us that power ain't everything, but though I respect their endeavor, it's absolutely fruitless if nobody buys it.

 

Now, I must add, though I say I've done a lot of research doesn't mean I fully understand the material that I have research, and I may have missed a few points, or even twisted them due to my own level of bias, so therefore I am open to input from other members here who may know more about this subject than I do, but I can say I am reasonably confident in the information i am sharing here. 

[Russ]

As you said, they admitted that the Wii was not really powerful, and I know that they admitted that, so I though the Wii U would have been more powerful, thus there shouldn't have been a problem with Sony and Microsoft releasing their games on the Wii U and so on.

To clarify, it's not Sony and Microsoft that would be releasing their games on the Wii U. It's other, third party companies. As a random example, Ubisoft. They made the Assassin's Creed series. The first five games were released on the 360 and PS3, but not the Wii, because the Wii simply couldn't handle them (the other two systems could barely handle the last one, but that's a different story for a different thread). And it's that issue that they're having now. The Wii U is about as powerful as the 360 and PS3. But the Xbox One and PS4 are coming out, and they're miles ahead of the Wii U, so we're just gonna get a repeat of what happened with the Wii: third party developers release their games on Sony's and Microsoft's systems, but not Nintendo's.

[Nicholas Steel]

I've done some research on the power of the Wii U, and though my findings may be complete bluff, it's said that the Wii U's computer just ain't as powerful as current gen models, let alone next gen models.

 

The Wii U, though advertised as more powerful in the graphics department has been said by developers to have a poor computer. I can only assume computer can mean everything from power to the entire interface, but whatever the case, some 3rd party developers have confirmed that Nintendo's computer can't even match Xbox 360 and PS3, and that is (along with the extra work to make games to work with the gamepad) why developers have been skipping the Wii U in favor of the current models.

 

I believe it will take more than better advertising to fix this. What Nintendo wants is unrealistic. When Nintendo says better advertising, they are claiming they can convince gamers and developers to take the specs way out of the picture and understand their point of view, which has been the same point of view they held for awhile (it's just about the games). Though Nintendo may be right, they fail to understand the business behind it, and that's where they are very wrong.

 

There is no amount of advertising that's going to make gamers and developers suddenly come to the conclusion "Ooooooh!!! It's not that the Wii U is weak! It's that it's such an innovative system! Of course, that's what they were saying all along!!". That's what Nintendo wants to convince us, they are trying their part to convince us that power ain't everything, but though I respect their endeavor, it's absolutely fruitless if nobody buys it.

 

Now, I must add, though I say I've done a lot of research doesn't mean I fully understand the material that I have research, and I may have missed a few points, or even twisted them due to my own level of bias, so therefore I am open to input from other members here who may know more about this subject than I do, but I can say I am reasonably confident in the information i am sharing here. 

it's better then the Xbox360 at some things, and worse at other things. Memory is definitely better then both the xbox360 and ps3 combined.