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#1 RetraRoyale

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:47 PM

Hello!

 

I've been pretty excited about a quest that I've been working on for about ... more than ten years now.(And I haven't made a single screen yet!) Needless to say, it's been going slowly, but I am quite persistent. Right now I just feel like writing down some of the history of this project, and this is as good a place as any for story telling.

 

Back when 2.10 was the big new thing, I began a quest I called "Zelda Cross" which was a pretty basic Zelda story. My goal at the time was to really push the boundaries of what ZC could do: I used every screen, DMap, item, string, tile, etc... It was a huge world, but pretty bland in hindsight. I made a lot of screens using makeshift LttP tiles with a custom palette.

 

(Screen design aside) -- If there's one major lesson I've learned from Zelda Cross it's this: avoid symmetry like the plague! It's ugly and boring. I look at a lot of quests and screens by other people and I see two kinds of screen design: Boxes and sheer randomness. Both pretty much suck, in my opinion. Boxes are a sign of someone who doesn't put any effort into it, and randomness is a sign of passable effort, but neither are great. Aim for something in the middle: "clustering and pocketing.")

 

I was proud of it, but then the 2.5 betas added two features that I thought were really worth abandoning the quest: Layers and 8-bit color mode. I felt that I was good enough with tile design and animation that I could really put these things to good use.

 

The quest I'm working on now is basically the great-grandchild of that one, so -- iteration 4, I guess. Iterations 2 & 3 were palette development. I've completely recolored and redetailed every tile in my tileset (a good 200 pages of tiles) 3 times already. The good news is: I'm done with that part. I've reached the level of detail and palette finesse that the final quest will represent. In fact, right now I'm building tiles for all the different areas of the game.

 

Speaking of which. I've got the whole game pretty much planned out. I have 2 whole notebooks filled with maps, to-do lists, names, ideas, enemy plans, etc. I've got all the game dialog pre-written in a text file. I have the story laid out in a detailed timeline of events and history, covering all the major characters.

 

So, basically, you might understand why I'm excited to make some significant progress on the quest this summer. I've put together some nice looking test screens, and it feels good to finally have working tiles!

 

Thanks for reading.


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#2 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:14 PM

Care to shae some screenshots? Even just test screens or mockups? That'd give the general public a bit better idea of what to expect.



#3 Theryan

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

I was proud of it, but then the 2.5 betas added two features that I thought were really worth abandoning the quest: Layers and 8-bit color mode.

Layers have been around long before 2.5 was in development. I can say with absolute certainly that they were a feature in 2.10 and 1.92.

 

As for your quest: Dang, 10 years of development has to lead to some well polished work. I can't wait to see some screenshots, even if they're just a few mockups to show off graphics.



#4 RetraRoyale

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

Hmm... I put something together with a very rudimentary palette too show off some of the tiles and overall style. I just need to figure out where to host the image...

 

YNqqsAn.png?1

 

 

Layers have been around long before 2.5 was in development. I can say with absolute certainly that they were a feature in 2.10 and 1.92.

 

All I remember is that I was using 2.10 and layers started appearing in the new builds. It was a long time ago, so I might be mistaken. I remember having 5 tile pages and you had to assign a combo page 0-7 to each DMap. Maybe I'm thinking of 1.84?


Edited by RetraRoyale, 24 May 2013 - 11:15 PM.

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#5 Bourkification

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:27 PM

Hmm... I put something together with a very rudimentary palette too show off some of the tiles and overall style. I just need to figure out where to host the image...

 

YNqqsAn.png?1

 

 

All I remember is that I was using 2.10 and layers started appearing in the new builds. It was a long time ago, so I might be mistaken. I remember having 5 tile pages and you had to assign a combo page 0-7 to each DMap. Maybe I'm thinking of 1.84?

Wow thats actually not too bad! I just dislike your choice of colours but as far as graphics go, you're getting onto something. 

Are you going to release those tiles/tileset?



#6 RetraRoyale

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:55 AM

Colors are an interesting subject because the whole quest is 8-bit. That means I can't easily use just warm or cold palettes, I have to choose one or use something neutral or cartoon-like. Each level has color ramps for water, dirt, rock, three types of grass, and three accent colors. So you don't really need that many palettes, but they have to match the colors for wood, gold, copper, gray, skin tone, primary colors (RGB), and other colors (Cyan, Magenta, Orange). I don't actually know how it'll end up looking once I make some refined palettes, but what you see there is only what is necessary to actually build tiles. I haven't worked on it yet, but I'm definitely not going to short-change the palette department.

 

As for the tileset, I'll eventually release it -- once I'm certain it is fully functional. What that means is that I've organized the combo pages and demonstrated a good arrangement by building a significant portion of the quest. I have an awesome idea for a demo, and I'll probably release the whole tileset when I put it out. 

 

Also, that Ganondorf sprite was surprisingly easy to make, only about 30 minutes... That bearded guy took probably 5 hours though. It's really hard to predict how long it takes to make something because of things like that. I spent 2 days on the leafless tree, but I'm still not happy with it. (But it was a lot worse...)


Edited by RetraRoyale, 25 May 2013 - 01:01 AM.


#7 Hoff123

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:25 AM

10 years? Sounds pretty cool :).



#8 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:01 AM

Hmm... I put something together with a very rudimentary palette too show off some of the tiles and overall style. I just need to figure out where to host the image...

 

YNqqsAn.png?1

 

 

All I remember is that I was using 2.10 and layers started appearing in the new builds. It was a long time ago, so I might be mistaken. I remember having 5 tile pages and you had to assign a combo page 0-7 to each DMap. Maybe I'm thinking of 1.84?

First of all, I love it. The style is super unique. You need to take this and roll with it.

 

Secondly, layers became a thing in the early 1.92 builds. I remember build 64 had em. 1.90 was the last or 6without layers and only 5 or 6 pages.



#9 Hoff123

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

Maybe he was talking about the tabs you can use for layers in 2.5?



#10 RetraRoyale

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

Well, in the last month I've nearly completed the tileset, and I feel like doing an update. There are a few loose ends to tie up, but I've started working on weather effects and scenery. Here's an example of an island I made:

 

 

b1tLZHO.png

 

 

It's pretty flat, but I'm not a very good artist!

 

Anyway, You can also see some of the lava and ship tiles on the side. The ship is based on the Parallel Worlds ship, and the lava is basically recolored water from somewhere... There's still a lot to do to the lava, but I'm going at a pretty severe pace. I'm getting between 3 and 10 tasks done each day.

 

I've been doing some palette re-configuring, and it's pretty tough. (I've been using http://colorschemedesigner.com/ and http://meyerweb.com/...ls/color-blend/ for basic tools.) I'm not thrilled with it, but maybe I'll get something I like eventually. It's one of those things that can be put off easily because the game doesn't depend on it. The palette structure is set, and I can always recolor tiles later.

 

I've finished all the ALttP dungeon stuff and I just added a bunch of new trigger objects. I have a few good ideas for new dungeon types, so I will probably try to add them at some point. The big worry-point for me though is animals and weather effects. I can't draw weather and animals, and they are very important for creating rich environments. How do you make a horse or goat in the LttP perspective? Typically, I would just play with outlines until I get something that looks like it fits right. That's the way to do it, but it really is a tedious and time-consuming process. :(

 

Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun on this project.



#11 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:58 PM

Oops...That wasn't the edit button.


Edited by Fausch, 26 June 2013 - 01:58 PM.



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