9 replies to this topic

[TheLegend_njf]

I can't speak for everybody here, but I can certainly speak for myself that skills in quest design grow with the experience within making the quest.

Now I believe everybody has different approaches, but I just started thinking, if you build a quest using natural progression, wouldn't it be safe to assume your best stuff would appear somewhere in the middle or end?

I started to wonder if there is consequences in designing a quest at the beginning. Because we sometimes forget to understand the importance of the beginning. If we fail to put our best out in the beginning, wouldn't it be safe to assume that MOST quest players won't see the true work? Because I am certain if a quest doesn't make a good first impression, not only will the player give up, he may never attempt to play again, unless highly motivated to do so.

It would be safe maybe to assume that when building a quest, before the final product, that a quest designer should consider heavily reviewing the beginning. What's your input?

[nicklegends]

I think it's the designer's responsibility to update earlier stages of the game to reflect the skills he or she has acquired over time. For example, maybe you learn to balance puzzles and combat by the time you make your eighth dungeon. In this case, one should update an earlier dungeon to reflect this if it's not up to par.

On the counter-side of this whole argument, earlier parts in the game will also tend to get tested more thoroughly. This means two things: the first is that there will generally be fewer bugs toward the start of a quest; the second is that there are more opportunities to identify lacking gameplay elements early on and thus more opportunities to improve them.

In the end, I think most quests will maintain relatively consistent quality throughout. The jumps in skill will be most pronounced between projects.

[peteandwally]

I'm currently reviewing my most recent quest. The first few areas are so basic compared with some of the later content. However, I'm also finding that later dungeons are probably more complicated than they should be as well...

[Mudkipz]

I noticed this happening to my quests too. However, because I keep restarting, this is not usually seen in the same quest. I definitely feel like I have improved since my time of making square rooms in the Pure tileset. I still suck at making puzzles and making my dungeons non-linear though.

[Lightwulf]

I'm still working on my first quest. One thing I've noticed recently is that the content of my quest has greatly improved since I started. Then again, my quest evolved from starting on one island to the next without pre-planning, to now having areas I'm going to make already sketched on paper. ... Meh. I guess that might be expected with a first quest!

Anyway, I can identify with you because I've got a lot more going toward the end of the quest than at the beginning. Part of that, I guess, is having linearity at the very beginning, then slowly opening up more and more options of where to go as the player progresses through the levels, until you're able to go everywhere.

That being said, I created my introduction after I'd created level 7. Creating the introduction later (in the quest-making timeframe) might help, rather than focusing on creating it right when you start the quest.

[Binx]

I've noticed this already, myself, and I'm not very far into making my quest. I'm a total noob, and just barely starting to learn scripting, (having never even used someone else's scripts before), but I've already started to get ideas and make changes to the parts of my quest I've already finished, like adding lava to the fire temple instead of unwalkable red tiles.

[Air Luigi]

I can't speak for everybody here, but I can certainly speak for myself that skills in quest design grow with the experience within making the quest.

Now I believe everybody has different approaches, but I just started thinking, if you build a quest using natural progression, wouldn't it be safe to assume your best stuff would appear somewhere in the middle or end?

I started to wonder if there is consequences in designing a quest at the beginning. Because we sometimes forget to understand the importance of the beginning. If we fail to put our best out in the beginning, wouldn't it be safe to assume that MOST quest players won't see the true work? Because I am certain if a quest doesn't make a good first impression, not only will the player give up, he may never attempt to play again, unless highly motivated to do so.

It would be safe maybe to assume that when building a quest, before the final product, that a quest designer should consider heavily reviewing the beginning. What's your input?

Totally agree... That's exactly what happens me with your Souls of Wisdom quest... the beginning is the most important part in a quest, if the player doesn't like the start he won't continue the quest. And I played your quest about 3-4 hours... but never improves. I don't have the patience to play 10 hours waiting that the quest gets good.

Edited by Air Luigi, 04 May 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Shoelace]

I 100% agree.  When I made my first quest the Hero of Dreams.  You can see my process as I went along.  Level 1: I learned warps and basic mechanics.  Level 2:  I messed with using Dungeon Dmaps to it's fullest.  Level 3:  I found out how to use Cave Dmaps, and I learned Combo Cycling.  Level 4:  I learned tiered secrets.  etc. 

 

I finished the game back in March 2005ish.  That is why I was getting testers, however, I decided against releasing it.  I thought the game was not balanced enough because you could TELL that I was learning while I made the game.  I spent the next year just polishing, making more puzzles.  Turning Level 1 and 2 to Cave Dmaps.  Making the game more fluid.  

 

So I do think it is very important to balance your game when you are at the end.  It should feel like the same game throughout.

[Hoff123]

So, Hero of Dreams was your FIRST quests? Wow. But it seems it took a while to make it .

 

Anyway, it's the same for me. I started making my quest with the classic tileset because I wanted something simple, and didn't want to mess with layers and stuff... Well, now I am using layers in some places, I have edited some of the combos and tiles and also made new ones, and I use some scripting too(both others and my own scripts) . A few custom enemies and bosses too, but no scripted ones.

 

At some times I've really felt like switching to Pure or DoR, but at the same time I want to keep it classic . Besides, changing it now, would require A LOT of work .

[Lightwulf]

...

So I do think it is very important to balance your game when you are at the end.  It should feel like the same game throughout.

Hmm... That reminds me of the part I'm working on right now. I'm close to finishing my first quest, and now, at level 9, I decided to incorporate in different rooms secret triggers that were seen from each of the previous levels.  You still have those items; why not use them again?

 

So, Hero of Dreams was your FIRST quests? Wow. But it seems it took a while to make it .

 

Anyway, it's the same for me. I started making my quest with the classic tileset because I wanted something simple, and didn't want to mess with layers and stuff... Well, now I am using layers in some places, I have edited some of the combos and tiles and also made new ones, and I use some scripting too(both others and my own scripts) . A few custom enemies and bosses too, but no scripted ones.

 

At some times I've really felt like switching to Pure or DoR, but at the same time I want to keep it classic . Besides, changing it now, would require A LOT of work .

Talk about it! I started with Classic, myself, and didn't learn layering until later. I customized the graphics since then, which took a long time to update everything, so I haven't updated everything to include layers, yet, but I think I've updated enough. It's mainly the 2x2-tile trees that I haven't updated. Luckily, most of my dungeons didn't need layering to begin with.

 

And there's definitely no way I'm changing tilesets now! It's a MAJOR affair to change tilesets because you'd have to use the Grab function to import all the new graphics for the entire tileset. Otherwise, you'd have to completely remake the quest in the new tileset. Any changes like that would have to be done really early on in the quest.