38 replies to this topic

[Kite]

Around a month ago (before the whole thing with updating PureZC started), LinktheMaster and I started working on something that is long overdue for Zelda Classic: a ZQuest 2.50 tutorial. In order to do this without creating a website from scratch, we decided to set up a DokuWiki as the base.

http://zcguides.celestialrealm.net/

The concept is pretty similar to ZCWiki and the old PureZC Wiki, but this will be focusing solely on documentation. It also helps that DokuWiki, despite some problems with it, seems easier to work with than MediaWiki since it is geared more towards documentation instead of being an encyclopedia.

But ZC Guides isn't really the reason this is being brought up now. We need help with the main tutorial on ZC Guides, The Comprehensive ZQuest 2.50 Tutorial. We specifically need proofreaders to go through this tutorial as we make each chapter and point out possible errors.

As of this post, we have two chapters completed. The rather bad table of contents is currently a temporary auto-generated thing so that we can keep track of everything.

We plan to split the tutorial into three main segments:

1. Creating a Basic Zelda 1 Style Quest.
2. Adding on newer ZC features.
3. A random assortment of other stuff.

The first segment is being heavily based off of Alphadawg's work since it was honestly a rather nice format. Barring random tidbits, this segment is going to mostly stick to a vague Zelda 1 style formula. You can get an idea of the things this segment will cover by looking at the temporary notes section we have for Alphadawg's tutorial. The second segment will start introducing things such as chest combos, tiered secrets, and other concepts. The last segment will not be part of the actual tutorial quest, but it will contain other random things of interest.

Right now, we have no real plans of allowing registration since we don't want the place filled with spam bots or people editing the tutorial as we are slowly making it. But we don't mind having corrections and such brought up.

Also keep in mind that this is probably going to be a slow process due to other things we are obviously working on.

LinktheMaster is also planning to do a video version of the main tutorial eventually.

To sum this up, we would mostly like feedback on the tutorial (including corrections and suggestions). We need to know if we are going in the right direction.

Note: I'm posting this in General ZC Discussion because it's a development topic for the tutorial. It's not actually finished and ready for people to use, but we are wanting the public to have a look at it.

[Moosh]

I like it, but to be quite honest, I don't think a comprehensive tutorial of all of ZQuest up to this point is needed as much as a tutorial covering all the changes and new features added between 1.90/2.10 and 2.5. A lot of the information in your tutorial could be gotten from other ZQuest tutorials like Alphadawg's or BikdipOnABus's.

[LinktheMaster]

Fair enough, but let me bring up a few points.

First of all, for people wanting to know changes between 1.90-2.10 and 2.50, there is this as a highlight of all of the simple changes. For all the really large techniques and utilities in 2.50... well... there is a table of contents in our new tutorial, and people can easily jump to the new stuff in 2.50 through it. We'll be covering most of the new 2.50 features and such in detail later on, though it may not all take the form of the comprehensive part of the tutorial.

For new people to ZC, yes, there are basic tutorials like Alphadawg's tutorial, but those are all (to my knowledge) 1.92 and before. The instant a new person shy to ZC opens up the "beast" that is 2.50 ZQuest and compares it to the simplistic screenshots in Alphadawg's tutorial, they're going to be running away. And even outside of basic looks, lots of menus are renamed or moved, so Alphadawg's tutorial is essentially broken, and there are so many problems with trying to get 2.10 and before to work on Windows 7, we can't really tell people to use it first, then switch to 2.50.

If the ZC community wants to grow, a new comprehensive tutorial like Alphadawg's needs to be made for 2.50, and that's what we're doing.

[Jared]

Why does everyone seem to have a problem switching from 2.10 to 2.5? It only took me about a few days to get used to it. And once I used 2.5, I never went back to 2.10. Is it just me?

What exactly is it that people are afraid of?

[aaa2]

And here i thought zquest was self-explainatory... (i never looked in a tutorial and i bet most of the people here didn't). What would be more important is guess is round up button shortcuts and where to use them since they are not documented.

[ABH15]

I wouldn't mind proof-reading it, while learning more at the same time.

[kurt91]

I read through what's done so far, and I really like this. Nearly every single existing tutorial's links from this site seem to be broken (at least for me), and I had to pretty much learn how to use ZQuest from trial and error. I'm already fairly decent with the program now, but I still am really looking forward to this when it's done. I'd like to know exactly what kinds of things there are that I can easily do, that I've failed to figure out.

[Rambly]

First of all, I'd like to say: Thank you for this. Seriously. The Zelda Classic community has needed something like this for a very long time in order to actually grow and have a well-documented program. I gave it a good read through and it seems it goes through everything well and explains things in a really easy-to-read fashion. It is pretty similar to Alphadawg's old 1.90 tutorial, yeah... but hey, why mess with what ain't broke?

I didn't notice anything that stood out to me specifically as an error. I plan to give it another read tomorrow evening to see if there's anything I overlooked. It's more than a bit late right now, though.

And here i thought zquest was self-explainatory... (i never looked in a tutorial and i bet most of the people here didn't).

I would imagine that the people who stuck around and are still here were patient enough to deal with figuring out the program through trial and error. I wouldn't be surprised if people some came along, thought "oh hey, Zelda fangame editor, cool!", and then got frustrated by the lack of a proper Tutorial and the haphazard documentation and then quit.

Granted, there are help forums and a wiki... but those are more useful for reference and a lot of information is scattered around or out of date. A tutorial is designed to give a step-by-step guide for new people to get into the program and ease any intimidation factor it might have.

Also, what seems obvious and self-explanatory to you may not necessarily seem that way to others. There's a lot of things about the program that I don't think are exactly intuitive for new users (one example off the top of my head: the differences between DMaps and actual Maps).

What would be more important is guess is round up button shortcuts and where to use them since they are not documented.

This would actually probably be pretty useful, although I dunno if Nick and LTM will cover it in the scope of their tutorial. If not, and someone else wants to take a stab at it, that'd probably be helpful to the community at large.

[SpacemanDan]

We really do need something like this (It's been...how long since the last in-depth tutorial?), so thanks to you two for stepping up to the plate and tackling this. I'm sure many of potential ZQuesters will appreciate your efforts here. Taking a skim, it seems like something that people new to ZQuest will be able to easily pick up and learn. Nicely done.

[Jared]

Great tutorial so far! However, you forgot to mention that you can hold Alt and scroll the mouse wheel to go faster.

Edit - "But this has many flaws, especially if you decide to try using different fonts (which we will cover later). Instead, we are going to use a handy feature to fix this. Click on the Attributes tab and select Text wraps around bounding box"

...You learn something new every day! Whee!!

Edited by Jared, 19 May 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Thomas G. House]

I read through this. It will is great and it will be even better when it's finished.

Also:

• Q

...
This doesn't have a menu command equivalent.

Actually, it does.It's two seperate commands, but that counts, right?

[nicklegends]

Looks great, Nick. I think this has the potential to be the new "Alphadawg standard." I'll give it a read-through when I get a chance.

[Kite]

Actually, it does.It's two seperate commands, but that counts, right?

Yeah. I actually figured this out in chat two days ago, but I haven't had a chance to edit it yet. Thanks for reminding me.

I've been a bit slow with things lately since I've been busy with other stuff. Also, the very next thing I have to explain is relative coordinates, so it's taking time to come up with an adequate explanation for that. I'll hopefully have time to work on it some this weekend.

[Kite]

I've been working on this on and off, but I've become a bit stalled.

I started chapter 3 a month or two ago, but I've been stalled on page 2. I recently just forced my way through it, but I can't help but feel that I have overcomplicated things a bit with my explanation of DMap coordinates (relative coordinates).

I'd like opinions on how I've handled this since I feel that DMap coordinates are one of the most confusing concepts in ZQuest initially. Alphadawg's Tutorial didn't really explain them all that well other than telling you to refer to grid paper, so I remembered being lost on them for a few months (I would just enter random numbers until I got it right). I've forgotten how the 1.92 tutorials that were floating around handled it.

So yeah. I'd really appreciate comments on this part.

[.....the perfectionist.....]

I read your tutorial last night and I'm learning things that I havn't learned anywhere else. I like how you explained the Cave/Item Cellar working with screen 80, little nuances like that, and the text format with screenshots. You can read it line by line or just skim through.

Edited by .....the perfectionist....., 30 August 2012 - 10:55 AM.