428 replies to this topic

[Mitsukara]

There's more to that dead end room with the moldorms than it appeared.

 

Spoiler

Did you find the shovel?

 

If the above two hints don't give it away, here's the solution.

Spoiler

Get the shovel from the lower-left room, by pushing blocks around into the pit, or by using the ladder and feather to cross the pit if you have those; then take the shovel to the moldorm room and dig up more of the ground.

 

Sorry if it was a little cryptic. The single rupee red herring might've been a bit much on my part.

[studkid]

Ok, thank you!  I always forget about the shovel is useful for finding items.  I usually only think about it if there is some obvious tile that could be hiding (a tile is different from the rest of the tiles around it).  Anyways, thank you so much.  I'm having so much fun with this quest I would hate to just stop playing at that point because I got stuck at one point like I've done with so many other ZC quests.

[Mitsukara]

No problem! Feel free to ask if you've got more questions. I may take a few days to get back to you because I haven't been online consistently lately, but I check up on this now and then. (So far Dimentio's been a good source of info too, he caught a ton of weird oversights during development for me). I also included the 'Secrets and Guides' documents in the support pack to help explain some of the puzzles, but, I didn't write a proper walkthrough, just a file with hints.

[antwan4000]

Can anybody help me out in Soejima. I'm looking for Roc's Cape. But I do not know where. Where Is It?

[Deedee]

Can anybody help me out in Soejima. I'm looking for Roc's Cape. But I do not know where. Where Is It?

 

Spoiler

It's on the left side of the sideview area, behind some locked sideview doors and down a ladder. It's guarded by 2 darknuts and 1 tunkrad.

[Mitsukara]

If there are orange spikes in your way, then you need to reset the falling orange block above (when it's down, it triggers the switch)..

 

But, if you're short on keys...

Spoiler

Try the armos outside the dungeon, and digging down by the entrance. There's also one if you go to the far left of the sideview area, where there are pushblocks and a Guma enemy, and loop down over by the ghost. If you've already gone down to the non-sideview areas without the cape, then there's another key you can get by defeating the spiky enemies with the downward thrust.

You can also buy keys if you want to, in a pinch. They're sold for 100 rupees apiece back in the first town, Caragonne.

Edited by Mitsukara, 06 May 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[antwan4000]

How can I Do Boss rush in Link & Zelda Panoply?

[Mitsukara]

Unfortunately, I didn't finish a Boss Rush mode. There's leftover pieces of an abandoned one that I started to make, but it's not put together properly (it has broken warps, some bosses are missing or set up wrong, the dmap isn't even fully set up, and it's not accessible through normal play, unless you did some kind of fancy wallhacking or used Level 4 cheats to get to it).

 

I wasn't sure if there'd be demand for one and it was a confusing hassle for me at the time so I didn't do it... but I could maybe try to set something like that up in the future if people really want one? I know Dimentio expressed interest in the idea. My real life situation's kind of a grim mess so this probably won't happen for a while if at all, but if people want me to make it, I'll see what I can do down the road, maybe later this year.

 

The quest isn't passworded, though, so if anyone else wants to make a boss rush mode themselves, or any other kind of modification to LaZPoC, you're completely welcome to do so! As I've said before, this game is pretty much 'open source' for anyone to use anything from it they might wish. (It's just kind of badly scripted/badly organized, so it might be hard to figure out.)

 

Also, if I had more time and energy to focus on this, there's a really terrible bug I really should've caught and fixed: the L/R switch option for L-button throwing is completely busted. It doesn't allow you to carry objects correctly before throwing them, and pullswitches don't react to it... so at the very least I need to make a 1.3 update to fix that someday...

 

As far as what is in the current version of the game, though, there is a post-game boss though (a special scripted boss by Moosh, and a terrible scripted miniboss by me called the 'Power Lowder'). Just hang around after the credits and press 'start' at the end, and hopefully the way to find those will be self-explanatory (but let me know if you have any trouble with that).

Edited by Mitsukara, 07 May 2017 - 09:40 AM.

[naal]

Where do you find the Trophy for the second town in the 2nd half of the game?

[Mitsukara]

It's part of the trading sequence. Here's all the steps of the trading sequence, one by one...

Trading sequence Part 1 (in Calatia):

Spoiler

(Optional): Get they honeycomb near the three bees by using Link's grab beetle, and take it to the old lady in a house in the Town of Caragonne to hear the coordinates for the Lost Egg

Spoiler

Get the Lost Egg at coordinates 099 with the shovel, on the small island, and take it to the friendly Octorok in the southeast by the Seashell mansion to obtain the Mirror

Spoiler

Take the Mirror to the old guy in a house in the Town of Forward in West Calatia to get the Golden Leaf

Spoiler

Take the Golden Leaf to the guy in East Calatia east of Town to get the Ribbon

Spoiler

Take the Ribbon to the small chain chomp/bow-wow in the northwest part of Calatia by the waterfalls, past a bunch of obstacles, to get the Canned Dog Food

Spoiler

Take the Canned Dog Food to the grumbling Goriya in West Calatia north of the starting screen to get the Empty Can.

 

You also get the first prize, the Triple Fire Boomerangs.

 

Trading Sequence Part 2:

Spoiler

Take the Empty Can to the purple Bot in a house in the town of New Kasuto (you need to hammer a certain forest- coordinates can be found in the abandoned town of Old Kasuto) near the southeast part of Hyrule to obtain the Dolly.

 

You must complete Calatia's trading sequence before this will work.

 

Technical explanation if anyone is wondering: what this NPC is checking for in your inventory is the presence of the Triple Fire Boomerang, not the 'Empty Can', There is no actual 'Empty Can' item, it just leaves the same Canned Food item as before in your inventory. The Goriya will say "Thank You" if you have the fire boomerangs instead of trading, and if you go to the bot with the canned food, he'll talk about his interest in the can but won't trade with you while the can is 'full'..

Spoiler

Take the Dolly to the old purple woman outside a house in the Mountain Town of Daruna to obtain the Fishbowl

Spoiler

Optional side step: Talk to the bot in a house in the Town of Saria as Zelda in order to hear about Bagu's location, or be familiar enough with Zelda II that you already know Bagu's location.

Spoiler

Take the Fishbowl and a bottle of water to Bagu to obtain the Turtle.

 

(To get a bottle of water, use Zelda's Empty Bottle item next to some water, or go to the town of Nabooru and press A by the non-dry fountain). If Zelda does not have the Empty Bottle or any Magic Potions, you will need to buy or find a Magic Potion first.

Spoiler

Take the Turtle to Error on an island in the ocean near the southeast corner of Hyrule to obtain the Trophy

Then, of course, you take the trophy to the lady in the town of Ruto to complete the sequence. The prizes fort hat, if you don't mind spoilers, are all of the following:

Spoiler

For Zelda: The magic cape, which makes you invisible/invincible while you use it but drains magic,

 

For Link: The Bean Cooker, which can use up a Magic Bean to refill half of your maximum life, for a maximum of 8 magic beans you can carry

 

For both: A wealth medal for 50% discounts in all stores

 

200 rupees (or 400 if you've found the Ruby Ring)

Edited by Mitsukara, 14 May 2017 - 12:50 AM.

[ywkls]

I'm not sure when tonight's stream by Eppy will be up, but it's the one where he finished all the palaces and tried to enter Death Mountain.

 

Then the game did Avert Ambush mode on him and made him fight Agahnim again, before letting him activate the switches that you need the Triforce pieces for.

 

That wasn't the only thing he broke, although it was probably the only one where the game could have been unbeatable as a result. Not sure what happened or how it was resolved, but maybe you can watch his streams once he puts them up on Youtube and figure it out.

Edited by ywkls, 05 June 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[Deedee]

how it was resolved

The game doesn't take anything away from you by doing that segment, so that's probably a factor.

[Mitsukara]

Okay, I've seen Eppy's whole stream now. What seems to have happened, somehow, is that the game forgot he had beaten the North Palace boss, unchecking the Game->LItems[] dungeon boss flag for that level (nothing else from Averted Ambush mode got turned on. That dungeon boss is what the Death Mountain entrance checks for when it decides whether to let you in with the triforce pieces or tell you to go back, and it's checked by the scene right before the boss room). It wasn't gamebreaking in the end, just really weird; it almost looked intentional, in a really dumb 'pointlessly refight a boss from a previous dungeon for anticlimactic reasons' kind of way.

 

But I have no idea why that happened, since I don't think I scripted anything that should've changed the level item flags for that dungeon?? I either overlooked something super complicated that hasn't come up until now, or maybe there was some kind of weird bitrot or something.

 

An additional issue I'm seeing in MeleeWizard's playthrough is weird graphical issues, about the draw commands appearing too high on the screen for certain things (the fullview scrolling maps, and the Beetle targeting reticle. Also, when he scrolled down in the North Palace, the overhead bridges appeared under the subscreen, which seems like a vanilla ZC problem of some kind, inconsistent handling of transparent subscreens.) I have yet to hear back on what operating system and ZC version he's using, but it's safe to say it's not 2.50.3RC1 because the SetComboSolid changes are all working properly (he didn't have that problem ShadowTiger did, with walking through the mountain rocks). However, Moosh speculates he's using original 2.50, which causes a bitmap graphic drawing issue (which is why it comes up during the use of Moosh's scrolling minimaps, but not the rest of the time.)

 

EDIT: For clarification, this quest only works correctly on version 2.50.2.

 

Other design things that I might try to fix if I ever get a 1.4 done:

• Fix the "L/R Switch" feature, so that the power bracelet works correctly (currently it can't grab pullswitches, and apparently it auto-throws everything instead of carrying stuff around... I evidently forgot to ever finish the feature before release)
• Mess with the ladder flags on houses to make them work more consistently (inconsistencies with this caused undue trouble for Eppy)
• Replace the key ring hidden screen prize, probably with something simple like some rupees, because it's redundant with the key ring store (originally I meant to remove the key ring store, but people seem to like having it available)
• Go back to various screens I forgot to put key ring alerts on, and add them
• Better climbable ledge hints in Marui and a few other places (I designed the game assuming people would constantly try to use the ladder, so Eppy had a lot of problems because he didn't seem to like the ladder and frequently forgot about it or assumed it wasn't useable/didn't think to try it)
• Try to figure out why the spinner can still drop you through lava; failing that, add two-tile tall lava to certain screens, and add cancel warps to said screens
• Add a cancel warp to that one screen I missed in one of the later palaces
• Add 'make follower disappear' flags to that one screen sidewarp I missed in the Maze Palace
• Change the spinner paths to be easier because the spinner is so badly scripted (I could in theory try to alter it, but without replacing it with an entirely new item and doing a ton of retesting for a 'done' game, I don't think there'd be much less I could do that would help, and I'm not currently up for that big of a redo)
• Maybe replace or alter the switches you have to leave characters on in Terui palace to work like every other pressure switch, so that people don't get the idea Eppy did that the Somaria Block doesn't work on most swtiches when it actually works on almost all of them; or, maybe make different switches look more different? I dunno
• Reword the 'separate and stay at southeast armos' hint in the Tower of Seline to indicate that you should solve the music puzzle in that corner first, and then seperate
• Put a bola trigger in the statue shooter room in Miyahon, so people figure out what those are sooner
• Investigate hyrule gate breakage for cutscene F6ing, because a random player reported getting stuck on that somehow
• Make the 'Channel 3' screen continue you there, in case somebody impatient and F6es instead of seeing what it does (and thereby missing the previously-assumed-unmissable postgame content... which DOES continue you from the screen with the enemies in case you die for some reason, but not on the Channel 3 screen... because you only have to wait there like 10 seconds)...
• Add an NPC in the Town of Forward who says that Somaria, Beetle, and Ladder are used a lot, just so people are more likely to realize those are the central items of the game instead of forgetting them during these dungeons (which apparently comes up a lot more than I realized)
• The shrine should say the Island palace is at screen 57, not 73 (this is a holdover from when I'd put the actual entrance in the wrong place originally, before release; oops).

I have no idea when, or necessarily if, 1.4 will ever get done (by me, at least). I've been pretty distracted the past couple months, between some abrupt near-changes in my housing situation that have sorta evened back out for the time being, some more recent complications with the EBT account I rely on for most of my food, and then I've also gotten a little sidetracked spending the spare time I have being less social and writing really long Sailor Moon fanfiction (and drawing pictures for it, and trying to psyche myself up to start an original webcomic that I've been planning for a long time).

 

However, I do still have ideas for a sequel/prequel to LaZPoC that I want to make, and some groundwork for it (mostly graphics and plans), so at the very least I'll try to address design issues LaZPoC had (providing clearer hints, resolving certain buggy issues, making a whole new spinner, etc) if I make more headway on that project over time. (It doesn't have a project page because I don't have enough of a beta to want to show anybody just yet.) I may or may not try some smaller ZC projects, too, based on non-Zelda things. My ZC-related 'potential projects for maybe someday' follows:

 

Spoiler

1. Link and Zelda: Memory of Koholint (working title), the LaZPoC sequel/prequel (this is the most likely to actually get made)
2. Scripted Legacy of the Wizard sequel
3. Dragon Quest 1 and 2 as Zelda-style adventure games
4. Sailor Moon game using ideas from my fanfiction for the story, and graphics based on 'Sailor Moon: Another Story'
5. Final Fantasy VI fanfictiony mini-sequel, a simplistic adventure game where you play as Terra and interact with various dead side characters in the Cleft of Dimensions
6. A weird hybrid puzzle game with Adventures of Lolo and Solomon's Key elements (I have some ideas tying this into the LOTW thing, actually)
7. A tiny puzzle game where you play as a Gibo and a Sluggula, using mostly only the abilities those enemies exhibit.

(feel free to crib any of these ideas and do them yourself, these are things I'd be just as happy to see somebody else try)

 

I'd also be open to anyone else editing the quest or using it's components in any way, and I left it unpassworded for precisely that reason, so if anyone is interested in editing it or using something from it (or making a 'second quest' for it or something), you're completely free to do so and I'd love to hear about it. However, the game runs on crazy badly labelled spaghetti code, so I'll be surprised if anyone really wanted to, unless they put the whole game together without needing to edit my scripts (which is possible; I liked to design things to be a little bit editor-end friendly for my own use, instead of needing to edit the global to make new areas or stuff like that).

 

So basically, everyone's free to romhack my janky fangame if they really wanted to XD

 

Overall, if I were to review my own work...

 

I feel like LaZPoC's strengths are it's complex items and abilities and the variety of puzzles and situations they can create. It's probably also sorta okay at evoking ZII nostalgia, and I'm pretty happy with how most of the nonlinearity turned out.

 

The weaknesses lay in questionable hint balance, clumsy scripting (especially the spinner and the broken L/R switch feature), and perhaps in the pacing of when the complexity increases (many people hate the Marui Palace, Terui Palace, the Tower of Seline, and the final dungeon... which all had some of my favorite bits, so, oops). I tried to alleviate the need to solve certain puzzles by including a key store in the first town, but most people don't seem to remember or use that store; alas. Not to mention, I didn't really set up the final dungeon in a way where that would help much anyway (besides for being able to skip the rigamarole needed to enter said final dungeon), so oh well.

 

The neither-good-nor-bad, but not-for-everybody kinda stuff, is that the game is generally kind of mentally taxing. Certain parts demand:

• Extensive experimentation (almost the entire game consists of stumbling into weird situations that you can immediately progress through, but you need to use an item you already have somehow, and the point is to figure out which one)
• Extensive patience (just sorta in general)
• Good memory or note-taking (mostly for stuff NPCs tell you, or keeping track of where you've been)
• Planning ahead (especially the last couple puzzles)
• Tricky timing experimentation (the various room-restarting puzzles towards the endgame)
• And furious multitasking (especially the final battle).

All of which can be un-fun for a lot of people, depending on what it is you like.

 

The game isn't very brutal in terms of physical combat compared to most quests I've seen (or to Zelda 1 or II), but it is full of weird, convoluted things that would probably never make it into any official Nintendo game, for better or worse. As the creator, I never shied away from convoluted stuff when I thought of it because I figured there isn't much of that kind of thing out there, and it's hard to come up with, so if I can, I should, rather than shying away from complexity for the sake of an easier/friendlier game. Still, there's one or two points where I feel bad about how obtuse something was, or how badly it operates.

 

I also didn't try to make things especially realistic, because realism is for chumps I prefer more complex puzzle possibilities (hence the situations where you need the ladder to climb walls you can't simply jump onto, or the insane wraparound hookshot. Incidentally, 'Linovection' is a term from the webcomic Unicorn Jelly, referring to a principle of phsyics from an alien cosmos that resembled that universe having 'screen wraparound' falling). I figure weird game-world logic can be interesting sometimes, but I can understand people not liking that angle of things.

 

Ultimately, I was trying so many weird different things that I suspect there's whole separate themes (Character switching, tons of items, convoluted puzzles, nonlinearity, deliberate leeway for mechanical exploits) of the game that people might like while disliking others, resulting in what may be a mixed bag.

 

Also, I really appreciate all the feedback and enthusiasm I've gotten. I can totally see what people like and dislike about the quest. Personally I feel about 75% proud of it, and about 25% 'Oh, uh, watch out for all the horrible bugs and baffling elements, this is a mad science contraption that might blow up at any second mid-play so you gotta fiddle with it a lot'. That said, for all it's flaws, I feel like it's probably the best thing I've ever actually (sorta) completed in my life yet, and I'm really glad I made it and glad to have shared it with people. I'd love to see my ideas prompt somebody else to try other things; I don't believe imitating others or borrowing ideas is ever all that bad a thing, so please feel free to take any concept or element from this quest for your own use!

 

Anyway, 1.4 might be coming someday, but we'll see, I suppose. And I'll be around sometimes, sort of, lurking in the shadows of madness.

Edited by Mitsukara, 15 September 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[ywkls]

Another thing you might want to add to the list of potential bug-fixes is "Clue in Tower of Seline room where Whirlwind Song is required." Although there is a Music Note on the floor, I'm pretty sure that the first place you actually have to use that song and some people might conclude as MeleeWizard did that it only warps you to the beginning of the dungeon.

[Mitsukara]

By the way, for lack of having figured out any better place to collect these, here's a list of Let's Plays that exist now. I'm actually a little surprised and overwhelmed how many of them there are now, so I haven't finished watching them all yet (though I do intend to eventually), partly because (longish ramble about my many failings ensues):

Spoiler

The more I see of this game the crummier I think I did (it's so, so buggy, and a couple of the hints are really too oblique for their own good).

Also, I wish I'd put more of a hint as to where the sword is at the beginning, since literally no one recording a playthrough has ever gotten the sword before the arrows (you can push the stalfos into the pit by the mayor's house with the shield).

Also also, I really wish I'd drawn my own art for the manual instead of the sorta half-baked lazy photoshop approach, since I can (sort of) draw. (That's where most of the Zelda pictures came from, but even then I was sort of rushing it, and trying- and failing- to match Zelda II's manual style.) Oh well.

 

Also also also I really should get back to putting things on my deviantart page, that thing hasn't been updated in five years since I stalled out on the comic I was doing back then.

Also also also also, my sister was bitten by a Moosh.

We apologize for the previous alsos, the commentator of the alsos has also been sacked also. Also Moosh.

Anyway, in no particular order:

MeleeWizard's LP
(Ongoing, nearing completion. Played on 2.50 instead of 2.50.2, I think, which results in graphical errors for certain script-drawn effects.)

Eppy / ElectrometerPrime's stream
(Completed, but skipped Moosh's postgame boss by F6ing out of the credits 'Channel 3' screen in a hurry... included the manual.)
No playlist available yet.

StudKid's streams
(Ongoing, pretty far in.)

KingAquamentus / WillPlays LP
(Ongoing; also included the manual; didn't put the Enhanced Music in the correct directory.)
Playlist is out of order and doesn't include all of the videos for some reason, including part 1...

 

Lolo De Puzlo streams

(Just started recently. Has a co-commentator.)
Playlist is available, but doesn't include all episodes yet and is just labelled "Zelda Classic", so the channel may feature other quests in the same playlist later.

 

Dimentio / Another New Player attempts an exploit-filled speedrun but runs afoul of a cutscene malfunction
No commentary, so more of a TAS-sort of deal than an LP. : )

NewJourney'sFire plays the Expo Demo
(Only a brief sample. From the October 2016 PureZC Expo.)

Elijah Garcia tries out LaZPoC
(Only a brief sample. Also without the enhanced music.)

Edited by Mitsukara, 28 June 2017 - 04:25 AM.