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Metroid Origins: Version 3.0-Help/Bug Reports


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#31 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:46 AM

Ok....icons still disappear after dying if saved anywhere other than the ship...I also noticed its everything to the left of the timer and map, other than the energy tanks, and life of the metroid.

 

Also...didn't you make a escape in Heat sink room? The gate is sealed...and because of the speed booster blocks...I couldn't go back. I could only grab that missile near the blocks and had to reset.

I noticed something after looking at one of Choco's screenshots...his minimap actually works. Is this related to the map stations? Or is there something wrong...My minimap only shows one single blue square at any given time.



#32 chocobothief12

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:53 AM

ya you have to go to the ice world to unlock that gate now. 

 

I asked the question about the map and it is indeed only activated when you get to the map rooms, like the one in the gravitas save point


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#33 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:35 AM

Do you mean the LV 1 Terminal? Because I had already activated that...and the gate in Heat was still shut. I used shine spark (figured out a somewhat better way to control it combining the gamepad with the keyboard arrows) to get into a high area....but there's still a tricky area in the next room that seems to require the hyper grip...



#34 chocobothief12

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:41 AM

in the area before the big drop that takes you all the way to to the alpha save point, like if youre going for the screw attack upgrade, you need to shine spark up the left edge of the screen with the large mountainlike formation. thats the second part of the ice world and where you get the terminal for that gate. 



#35 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:37 AM

Ok. I found it. 

I'm finding one thing irritating...especially given how tricky it is to get to that second warp. There are no save points in the ice areas so...at the very least...can you make the warps themselves a continue point? I have a hard enough time with the shine spark, and I got killed by the boss there, and have to make my way all the way back.



#36 chocobothief12

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:54 AM

If you're playing with double hp and double damage, a few of the ice world bosses can chew through you in a few seconds. I don't remember the boss for the heat sink terminal though. i think its the weird ship thing with the pointy bottom that dives every now and then and shoots the charge beam looking shots? 

 

The big killer thats going to put a lot of people off of the double damage/HP run is nightmare. even with every E tank and super missile available, I barely beat him with 3hp remaining, and thats with taking no damage on the 1st phase. I have yet to find a way to avoid the second one, and the only thing you can really do is outDPS it.

 

I agree that some sort of continue point would be nice for the ice area though.



#37 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:09 AM

The dive bomb boss...the Alpha Skree  (blocked terminal A)...is easy enough to dodge...but I think it has way too much life. With 15 super missiles and 100 missiles...I only had 35 missiles left when I defeated it. I was about to get to the next boss...but I made the mistake of dropping  down to the blue door which leads back to the first warp. *sigh*...have to go all the way around again.

Edit...Ok...I now realize that the Charge Beam is stronger than standard missiles...but I still think that thing has too much health.
Also....speaking of the Screw Attack path...if you go that way all the way to the plant barrier...you get stuck there if you don't already have the Hyper grip. Maybe put a small ledge here so you can jump back up.

The Super Missiles are still more powerful than than the Wave Beam then. I still have only 15 Super Missiles...and seven energy tanks. No reserve tanks. I'm at Nightmare now. Thanksfully there is at least a save point there. The Gold Torizo was easy. 

Update on the icons disappearing. Now that I have a map station...if you die and cause the icons to disappear...the mini map stops working too. It just shows a empty 5X3 grid. The timer still works as normal.

....I don't think I can beat Nightmare. How do you avoid him on the first phase? He moves too fast to avoid...and he blocks the beam...I have to use missiles.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 30 June 2017 - 03:50 AM.


#38 chocobothief12

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:57 AM

I told you it was going to be tough lol. The far left of the map is safe from his hitbox. dont use any missiles at all. instead use the weapon that i keep forgetting the name of that you get to open the path to kraid. move a few steps to the right when its going right, and shoot the beam upwards before running back to the left. it moves slow enough that he will run into it on his way back. if you time it properly, you can get a second shot off and speed it up slightly. Also, if you havent got the super missiles on the screen northwest of the ship, i highly suggest getting them, as the extra 5 will help immensely for the second phase



#39 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 05:56 AM

I didn't get that missile...but I couldn't figure out how to get up there with only the Hi Jump.
The Atomizer...is there any chance you could add some optional upgrade to it? Or alter it...so its power increases when you have more Beams equipped (like Wave and Charge together)

I think the best strategy for Nightmare's second form is to stay clung to the wall as much as possible. Then his fire can't hit you. His gravity effect pretty much ensures that the missiles never miss...and its now possible to hit him with the wave beam, which should be stronger than the atomizer at this point in time.

Also...I noticed that you automatically take a hit the very instance you enter the room. This could be a placement error. Not sure if its worth fixing or not.

Edit..Ok...managed to somehow get that Super Missile...and managed to beat Nightmare too. (while wasting alot of them).

Use Choco's strategy on the first form...for the second...cling to the top right corner and make sure you're facing nightmare. Do NOT move from this spot. Use all your available super missiles...and then spam the Atomizer, not the Wave Beam. You can fire the atomizer much more rapidly...and the gravity affects it like the missiles...so it has a high chance of hitting Nightmare. I ended up killing Nightmare with more than a full energy tank.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 30 June 2017 - 06:48 AM.


#40 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

Ok...even with double damage and enemy HP....the game still becomes far too easy once the Gravity Suit is obtained. This, combined with stronger weapons makes most bosses a cinch. Only boss I had some trouble with, but still didn't die was Ridley...and that's only because of his insane amount of health. Never mind the Atomizer upgrade. Its rapid firing makes it powerful enough, as seen in the Nightmare fight.

The Spazer...does it even serve a purpose now? 

The Arachne Spider...I don't recall if this was a issue originally or not...but it seems to obsessively love staying on the bottom of the screen moving left and right so you can't attack it, and it can't really hit you. I found the fight kinda boring for this reason.

Botwoon defeated...engine room fire off...level 3 security disabled. It looks like the room with the four shutters is now completely open...but I'm stuck. I can't actually go through where the gates were. I'm not sure what to do now. I'm pretty sure I've been everywhere else. 230 missiles, 50 super, 50 power, four reserves and 13 energy tanks. Even got the Regenerator and Spazer and Plasma Beams. The gate blocking the Homing missiles is still there...so I'm assuming that invisible wall is where I'm supposed to be now.

Edit...the same room mentioned in half of page two.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 30 June 2017 - 08:58 AM.


#41 ywkls

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:39 PM

The dive bomb boss...the Alpha Skree  (blocked terminal A)...is easy enough to dodge...but I think it has way too much life. With 15 super missiles and 100 missiles...I only had 35 missiles left when I defeated it. I was about to get to the next boss...but I made the mistake of dropping  down to the blue door which leads back to the first warp. *sigh*...have to go all the way around again.

 
I'm not sure of the best way to counter this. Perhaps your suggestion for save points in the ice area, so you can just warp back rather than having to make the long trek? I'll look into where I might want to put some.
 

Edit...Ok...I now realize that the Charge Beam is stronger than standard missiles...but I still think that thing has too much health.
Also....speaking of the Screw Attack path...if you go that way all the way to the plant barrier...you get stuck there if you don't already have the Hyper grip. Maybe put a small ledge here so you can jump back up.

 
Although you probably can't tell, there is an escape hatch there. The wall on the right side has a morph ball path which lets you leave if you get down there ahead of schedule.
 

Update on the icons disappearing. Now that I have a map station...if you die and cause the icons to disappear...the mini map stops working too. It just shows a empty 5X3 grid. The timer still works as normal.

 
Is this dying after I did the update where I changed the Game Over code?
 

The Spazer...does it even serve a purpose now?

 
It does triple shot, plus rapid fire beams. (Twice as fast as normal.) Otherwise, not really; I guess?
 

The Arachne Spider...I don't recall if this was a issue originally or not...but it seems to obsessively love staying on the bottom of the screen moving left and right so you can't attack it, and it can't really hit you. I found the fight kinda boring for this reason.


I probably need to reprogram it, since I had this problem too.
 

Botwoon defeated...engine room fire off...level 3 security disabled. It looks like the room with the four shutters is now completely open...but I'm stuck. I can't actually go through where the gates were. I'm not sure what to do now. I'm pretty sure I've been everywhere else. 230 missiles, 50 super, 50 power, four reserves and 13 energy tanks. Even got the Regenerator and Spazer and Plasma Beams. The gate blocking the Homing missiles is still there...so I'm assuming that invisible wall is where I'm supposed to be now.

Edit...the same room mentioned in half of page two.


The invisible wall staying in place was caused by a script error.
Should be fixed now.



#42 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:21 PM

Everything I reported previously about the top screen stuff disappearing has been today...well after your latest update.

If the script wall is fixed...I'll update and finish tomorrow. Too late right now...and back to work tonight.

If the Spazer now has no purpose...that part is now completely optional except for one hundred percent completion, including the boss fight itself. Its kinda odd for a boss to be optional unless its some kind of super boss....and in a Metroid game....I've never seen a optional boss fight (besides Kraid in ZC Metroid V Rebirth....but he's kinda hidden in the ending sequence)

Given these facts....Both the Spazer and Plasma Beams are optional...though its likely one or the other is required to actually be powerful enough to finish the game. It gives me the idea....relocate the plasma beam behind a super tough boss...leave the Spazer where it is.

The Plasma Beam can be a reward for a challenge before going into the final battle.
Better idea...lock it behind a homing missile wall...place a strong boss before it...make a plasma beam barrier before Mother Brain. Making it a requirement...to finish the game...but not able to super power you beforehand....and also giving the Spazer purpose. 

To do this though....I'd suggest removing the screw attack tiles I asked you to add in the distant past...and place a item there in place of the plasma beam (can be acquired with Hyper Grip), required to move forward. Given how much more complex things are with the fourth area and the locked doors....I'm not sure what you could....or should replace it with to make sense.



#43 ywkls

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 06:48 PM

A lot to think about there is, in your post.

 

The complexity of the fourth area basically results from me throwing every possible barrier that I could think of in front of progress to the end. Even so, it only took me an additional half an hour to finish it.

 

Also, in line with some of what you've noted about boss difficulty (or the lack thereof) one possible solution that comes to mind is to make certain bosses weak only to specific weapons. Like some that can only be killed with plasma, or spazer, or wave beam, or whatever.

 

I'll probably work on enhancing that aspect of the game once the outstanding issues that keep people from finishing it are out of the way.

 

Another feature I've considered adding that I really like the idea of is a third subscreen. This would function like the Scan Data from the Metroid Prime series or the Datalogs from AM2R. Instead of receiving a message onscreen when you get a new item or face a new boss, a section of the datalog would be updated.

 

This would also include the data you currently get from the fake map stations and fallen soldiers. And yes, if this was implemented; it would count towards overall completion.

 

Not going to bother with that for a while, though; just a plan for the future.



#44 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 07:43 AM

Good ideas. I like all of them. 

I had a alternative one earlier today which is a lot simpler. Switch the location of the Spazer and Plasma Beams, and remove the screw attack tiles so you can get it again as early as the Hyper Grip. This way you can strengthen your Beam without overkill. I originally thought to make the Plasma Beam a challenge item because of how overpowered it is....but this could work better. It will also still leave the Spazer optional, which the Plasma Beam was originally...but too tempting to resist. 

To make Arachne necessary again....I would suggest adding the Plasma Beam barrier somewhere in the ship in the Ice World (after the gate with the script errors from before)...so that way its ultimately needed to get to the homing missiles, which are needed for the final barriers. 

If you still want to play with the ideas of adding optional bosses....there is also the Hyper Beam (It can be turned on and off...but it can only be used by itself. It'll automatically switch all other Beams off. Either add a beam slot...or have it 'replace' either the Spazer or the Plasma Beams), which could be protected by something sealed off with a Homing missile wall, and/or maybe a super high damage area which only the Hyper Suit can resist The Hyper Beam itself could maybe open a super hidden barrier to a 'ultimate' boss of sorts, which could maybe unlock a secret ending...or a additional part of the ending as sort of a epilogue if one can somehow beat it.

Ideas for optional bosses if not original....Maybe a boss from Metroid Prime. Maybe Metroid Prime Itself, Emperor Ing, Or Dark Samus. Maybe the SA-X. BTW...there is a ZC quest called Metroid V: Rebirth...The final boss of that is the King Metroid. It should be easy enough to find a youtube video of that if you're interested in seeing it...and the boss is hella hard. Especially for a non scripted boss. You could also make this hidden 'ultimate' boss a alternative final boss...and trigger a alternative ending upon its defeat.

I'll try to finish my run today.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 01 July 2017 - 11:49 AM.


#45 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 10:12 AM

Ok....it was a good idea making most of the new bosses only damageable by firing from underneath. That said....Triaxis is too weak. It does plenty of damage, but it died too easily even with Super Missiles, and I was at first tempted to use the Plasma Beam. Ridley had practically triple the life energy and more (I seriously thought he couldn't die when I ran out of both missiles) The Automaton of Death was easy too. Seriously...the later bosses are the ones who should have extreme life levels....not earlier ones like Alpha Skree or even Ridley. A idea here...use higher life levels on later enemies....and those easy to hit...Ridley implements this perfectly...though extreme at this point of the game. The ones harder to hit....its safer to weaken them a bit...but not too much. 

I still feel immortal with the gravity suit even on double damage. There are plenty of energy tanks all over the place. I haven't died once since I got it, but I died constantly before getting it.

I don't know if you can do this or not...but can you make the red ring strength 1/3 instead of 1/4, and maybe make gold ring strength 1/6 instead of 1/8? I think that would balance things far better. Leave blue ring at 1/2....Just reduce the higher armors.

Eye boss too...also easy...PS...I play through origins almost entirely with FPS capped. I'm not a expert player on challenge games to begin with. The only time I uncap it is to use the damn shine spark. But with capped FPS....I should be dying all the time...yet I hardly take damage.

Wow...Computer Core Boss...I love it.

Exchanges weakness between missiles and super missiles....Beams don't hurt it at all. Also a good amount of power. This thing actually killed me...the first time since Nightmare. Leave this one as is. As much as I criticize most of them....I love this one and its perfectly fine as it is. That said....I know the later bosses...can you do anything to spice them up a bit? Why should this be easier than the finale?

This is the first time I actually seen the fixed Serris...I love it...its perfect...but still incredibly weak in strength to the Computer Core. 

There are graphical errors with the Ice Beam. Sometimes it looks like ice (normally), occasionally steel block tiles...and rarely a glitched part of the atmosphere. Just now noticed it.

About to take on Mother Brain. I'm missing a energy tank and Power bomb from somewhere...otherwise I have everything.

Observation on this note...if you intend a bonus ending for 100%, death free within a certain time frame...INCREASE THE TIMEFRAME. The fourth area makes the quest tremendously longer (my timer shows 8 hours. I don't recall what it was normally on previous plays). 

Have Choco speed run and do 100% if he can and especially if he does normally to get a idea on a fair time for a normal player aimed at that goal...especially because he seems talented at that sort of thing.

Although...hold off if you're considering optional boss ideas I mentioned earlier.

Edit...MB has amazing health...though I think I noticed a safe zone within her...gonna test it now.

Metroid Queen...I disappeared and couldn't move...though I could still fire and be hit. I can't win like this.

PS....I decided to use this 'potential death' to test one thing again...the icons still disappear when you load a game anywhere that isn't the 'ship'

These icons are 

Missile, Super Missile, Power Bomb, Grapple Beam, Xray Scope, Metoid (ALL forms), Atomizer, and mini map becomes empty grid. 
Timer still displays....energy and energy tanks display....Metroid's health displays...and location displays. Everything else is gone.

Wait...further observation...MB does not respawn...is this this intentional? I thought the final battle was meant to be a combination of two. Maybe not?

No...this is not intentional...because the computer afterwards is already activated....I can't reach it, because of the ceiling barricade it makes when its activated for the escape sequence. Therefore I have no 'second chance' at queen Metroid.

I'm actually permastuck...at the very end of the quest...because Queen killed me (because I disappeared)

Make the self destruct computer trigger temporary...not permanent...and I think this issue is solved. I await tomorrow's update. 


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 01 July 2017 - 12:17 PM.



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