Jump to content

Photo

Revival of Link


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#31 trudatman

trudatman

    one point nine hero

  • Members
  • Real Name:that guy
  • Location:State Of Love And Trust, The United State Of Amorica.

Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

alright... you said to let the critique flow, so I will, but please don't be mad at me for it. I like you and I very much value your help with my projects, so I don't want you to be offended or anything like that, but...

your quest is not good. so many things! this may be overwhelming if you try to address each point, but I really suggest that you do, because it seems like you have the core of a great quest, here. I played for about forty minutes and gave up after dying in the first tower because I have a headache. the colors are awful. the flashing fairy area is brutally pulsating and my head hurts from it. I have pages of notes, mostly involving grammar and punctuation. I'm going to just jump in, copying my list of issues in order:

"something...[space]Link and God... Heh[period]" this turned out to be a common problem: inconsistent punctuation.

"something...[space]but"

you use WAY to many "..." punctuations and you flip flop between capitalizing the next word and not doing so.

so much of the text seemed unnecessary. it was like the Fairy Of Dreams demo in that I played for ten minutes and read for thirty.

"things... it [replace 'it' with 'they'] must not"

"soft[dash]hearted"

"...." this was a whole string by itself, even! what the fuck is this? why are you making me read so many ellipses and dots? ENOUGH! you should try to limit these to five, total, in the whole quest. you have about five per string! WHY?

"happening.." this time you have two dots, which isn't a period and isn't a set of ellipses. one dot is an end. three is a fading pause. four are indicative of stuff said that you can ignore. two, though... two is nothing.

"no...[space]there is something[comma] alright"

"is Ganon, then...[space]there"

"but[comma] Will"

why can't I walk behind the market? at least let the corner be walkable for one tile. it's VERY weird to see a regular ground tile that is unwalkable. this happened in the fairy land, too. it also happened in the tower, but that may have been a hole in the ground or something I couldn't figure out.

"isn't good[comma] either"

I couldn't figure out why you chose to indent some lines of text. it was inconsistent. I think you should avoid doing this at all or center every line (that would be very hard and, in the occasions in which you failed to do it right, it would look weird). really, you should align everything to the left side for ease of use.

"feeling about this[period]"

your son's girlfriend or whoever she is... why does she live in a room of random blocks? it's her house, right? make in inhabitable. I see there is a passageway in the back, so I guess her front room could be a storage room, but it is weird.

"you...[space]figure" really, these strings need to be rewritten, I think, but if you are using the pauses as some sort of style, at least put a space after each.

Will walks choppily. I'm not sure why. it's almost like he's slow walking everywhere, but it is also jerky. I can't explain it better than that. it is annoying.

why can't I open the door to Will's should have access to his own house, right? did his girlfriend lock him out?

"I made it years ago[comma] before that one[period]"

"the hero...[space]as Link...[space]your" this is making me want to punch babies. normally, at this point I would quit and give the quest a bad rating out of anger.

"with her tears,[remove the comma] will"

"to rid of the threat" either use 'to be rid of the threat' or 'to rid the world of the threat.' bad grammar devalues a custom quest. at least you are a good speller.

"intentions for this[period]"

"omnipotent law" should be reworded.

alright, those are my notes from before my first death. I don't think I can keep this level of testing up, but I would be willing to if you value these comments. if you can't be bothered, neither can I, as I wasn't enjoying playing. it was a chore, especially because the coloring was literally painful to view. the biggest issue was the punctuation. second was the coloring (the flashing stumps were particularly brutal). the third major issue was the "blah... blah... blah... holy... fuck... I... don't... care... that... you... sense... trouble... shut... up" thing. then there was the pacing/ordering/warping stuff, which would normally be a big concern in questmaking, but was downgraded by the other stuff. if this quest didn't make me sure that I wasn't interested in going further or trying the previous quest in the series, I would have further explored the potentially gamebreaking item and warping sequencing issues that I suspect are present. however, my eyes need the rest.

hate me, yet? I still love you. thanks for your help with my projects and here's hoping you aren't offended by this post.

#32 trudatman

trudatman

    one point nine hero

  • Members
  • Real Name:that guy
  • Location:State Of Love And Trust, The United State Of Amorica.

Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

format stolen from Talq:

Graphics: 3/10
Sound: 7/10
Music: 8/10
(Overall): 18/30

Map: 2/10
Design: 3/10
Difficulty: 5/10
(Mechanics): 10/30

Story: 4/10
Immersion: 14/20
Replayability: 1/10
(Plot): 19/40

total: 47/100, which is a failing grade but also is within the range of salvageable, so I do encourage you to address the weaknesses and make this thing fun, which I know it could be.

#33 Valientlink

Valientlink

    ~V@LîΣÑTLîÑK~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Bread
  • Location:Earth

Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:18 AM

Okay, now that I have the time I can clearly respond to your post. Now, as I stated in a PM I'm not really mad, but there are some things to clear up first.

1. It seems like a personal attack on the quest, which gets a little excessive. I can understand there are things to fix but you could have delivered the information easier than that.

2. Punctuation is never really perfect... But I don't see that as a big deal. And when it switches from " " to * * to - -, those are text symbols which are to represent which character is speaking. Sure punctuation isn't perfect, but it's not about punctuation, especially when you can only type so much each string. Your dislike for the excessive dialog is simply an opinion. I understand not everyone wants to read it all, but the quest is all about telling a story and understanding the characters. Some parts have more talking than others, but it being the beginning of the quest, naturally there will be quite a bit of dialog.

3. You barely entered level 1 and you are judging the quest. I can understand you have some complaints but it is too early to judge the quest this much... which brings me to my next topic.

The ratings. Here is what I got.

Graphics: 3/10
Sound: 7/10
Music: 8/10
(Overall): 18/30

Map: 2/10
Design: 3/10
Difficulty: 5/10
(Mechanics): 10/30

Story: 4/10
Immersion: 14/20
Replayability: 1/10
(Plot): 19/40

And some things stolen from 'talq'. Well, I'm not sure who talq is nor have I ever played his quests. You also rated the story and replayability as low. First off, you don't even know what is going on in the quest since you haven't played the prequel, and second, you haven't even made it past the first tower and you already say it has a low replay value. The quest hardly picks up until you leave the World of Fairies anyway. It seems like you were mostly trying to find flaws with this quest, and too early on. That is not why I am building it. I'm building this quest to tell a story and not care *too much* about the tileset. It's just a work of mine which can either be appreciated or disliked, it depends on what the player sees in it. Clearly you dislike it, but hell I can't stop you.

There you have it, I'm not 'offended' or anything, it's just a Zquest, you know? But still, you seemed to tear it apart a little much considering you barely made it into the first dungeon. It's not perfect, and that's the point. That's not why I'm building this one, and especially not why I built the last.

#34 trudatman

trudatman

    one point nine hero

  • Members
  • Real Name:that guy
  • Location:State Of Love And Trust, The United State Of Amorica.

Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....It seems like a personal attack on the quest, which gets a little excessive. I can understand there are things to fix but you could have delivered the information easier than that....
I am sorry it felt that way. I promise you that my intent is only to help you improve it. I really feel it needs improvement if you hope to have anybody ever get to the parts where it picks up.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....Punctuation is never really perfect....
well, it could be. I understood the " and * stuff; the real issues were the lack of punctuation where there should be some and the overreliance on '...' to the point where it was incredibly distracting. my dislike for excessive dialog really didn't play into my critiques of the dialog, I promise. I get that you were continuing a story, but it had so much weirdness and inconsistent punctuation that it ruined the immersion, which, to me, is a crucial aspect of a custom quest.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....You barely entered level 1 and you are judging the quest. I can understand you have some complaints but it is too early to judge the quest this much....
while I understand what you mean, you should understand that most people make their judgments about if a quest is worth continuing to spend their time on during the first half hour of time spent on it. I understand that a story-based quest is going to rely heavily on dialog, so the words themselves were so much of an issue as the doubling the length of the strings with ellipses. the color choices and flashing combos are definitely going to lead to lots of folks deciding the eventual gameplay is not worth the literal headaches. I suggest redoing the fairy area with a lot less flashing and flickering.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....You also rated the story and replayability as low. First off, you don't even know what is going on in the quest since you haven't played the prequel, and second, you haven't even made it past the first tower and you already say it has a low replay value. The quest hardly picks up until you leave the World of Fairies anyway.
the story was docked many points just because it was comprised of about forty percent "..." and not because I don't know the background story, which was well implied by the robotic dialog. I stopped where I did because I had already invested a lot of time in it -- more than I think most players will give it -- and I wanted to see if you actually valued my notes before putting the effort into taking more. plus, I had a headache from the flashing. I really think a quest should not physically hurt the player, but, either way, I needed a break. the fact that I did not look forward to getting back to it was why I rated its replayability low. yeah, ideally all of these ratings would be made after completing the game, but I was just giving you the types and levels of feedback I would hope to get from people trying my works.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
It seems like you were mostly trying to find flaws with this quest, and too early on....
yep. I was totally trying to find flaws. I do that because that is what I think a good tester does. Zeldaman23 excitedly loved my Sticks And Stones demo and praised it excessively. Giggidy hated it and trashed it, thoroughly. as much as the praise makes me feel good, I find more value in the harsh criticism. I understand that not everybody feels this way, so that is why I try to make sure my "help" is welcomed before I expend the energy in providing it. I would be willing to continue to give you detailed criticism, but I can't just play through, ignoring the stuff that is painful and annoying and then reporting to you that "yeah, it's okay."

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....Clearly you dislike it....
I get it. it may seem that way, but I assure you that I would say "I dislike it" if that was the case. I think a quest I disliked that also had the technical issues this has would probably end up with a score of about twenty or thirty out of one hundred. yours is almost passable in the condition it is currently in. some attention to the issues I highlighted for you would bring it into the "good" zone of seventy to eighty. I try not to sugarcoat my critiques because I think that can lead to the suggestions being glossed over or ignored. the issues this quest has are real issues, to me, and I think you should address each point to the best of your ability. if you fix each of the grammar and punctuation issues I detailed, you will have a much more professional-feeling quest. if you achieve a more professional and polished feel, more folks will enjoy the game. that would be a good thing, right? I hope so. I hack some games for my own enjoyment, but I think we all build Zelda Classic quests for others to enjoy, too.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....There you have it, I'm not 'offended' or anything
good, please don't be! I really just want to help.

QUOTE(Brian @ Oct 9 2012, 07:18 AM) View Post
....you seemed to tear it apart a little much considering you barely made it into the first dungeon. It's not perfect, and that's the point....
the point is to be sloppy? I don't get that, at all. if you need testing only to find gamebreaking bugs, that is not all I provide and I shouldn't continue to do this for you. if you find value in my attention to the details that make good quests great, I would be willing to push forward with the same level of notetaking. I want to see this thing blossom, but I will understand if you suggest I forget about this quest.

thanks for detailed response. others have reacted quite poorly to this type of help and I am relieved that you handled it in a mature fashion. good luck with your quest, either way. please let me know if you plan to address the issues I pointed out and if my continuation is worth our time.

#35 Valientlink

Valientlink

    ~V@LîΣÑTLîÑK~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Bread
  • Location:Earth

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Hmm... I think I get it now. The only reason the first game I made was appreciated was because a small minority of people actually enjoyed it. I improved upon the first work but in many ways it is similar. This is where I noticed your critiques. I can't say I disagree with your opinions, I actually think it needs a lot of work, I just didn't expect anyone to notice the flaws or care that much. The "..." all over the place does get excessive, I can agree on that. But the dialogue might just be ignored for awhile. It gets better as it goes on (the dialogue was written when I was 16) but it is also somewhat based on the dialogue of older SNES games. Final Fantasy III for example has grammar problems, typos, mistranslations, etc. etc. but people still praised it. I'm not trying to really be correct, but I'm trying to emphasize in a way that I honestly can't explain.

Enough about that though. The World of Fairies I will add needs some SERIOUS work. I don't honestly see how it could give you a headache, but everyone is different. The trees will probably still flash a little bit but I will work on the palette extensively. It looks gross with it's palette cycle and the tree stumps look all screwy. I created a blue palette without flashing but it looks too 'day time' so I'll have to do more work on it.

The point is not to 'be sloppy'. But the main issue here is that the tileset in the beginning was absolutely terrible. I'm basically building based on how the tileset was made, if that makes any sense. If I were to have built this in pure or something, the results would be better...

I most definitely plan to fix the issues you suggested to fix. BUT, I don't want to change too much about the quest. I could imagine critiques even later into the quest. I was satisfied to begin with the way it was simply because I see it differently than someone playing it, naturally. The thing I don't want the change the most is the difficulty level. Even in its current state, I find it way too easy.

But regardless, this work won't be perfect. Again, I'm building this to just create something different. I'm not sure if you should continue testing it because what you look for in a Zquest is just not what you will find here. I will keep you updated on the fixes though.

BTW: I didn't realize that 'format stolen from talq' was actually the rating system itself... I thought you were comparing it to his work or something haha.

Edited by Brian, 09 October 2012 - 12:32 PM.


#36 chiefbigcalf

chiefbigcalf

    Warrior

  • Members
  • Real Name:Moe Munee
  • Location:da erf

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

I tested Brian's quest a few weeks back - the entire first part. I found it very engaging and well crafted ...while not my favorite tile set, I couldn't hold that against the creativity, difficulty and logic that entered into this effort. I can't wait to play the finished product. While we are all entitled to our opinions, I think my statements are credible as I played the entire demo and lord knows how many quests I have played the past few years. This quest definitely has the capability of being a 5 star effort. Hands down. So, all thumbs up !! icon_thumbsup.gif icon_thumbsup.gif

#37 Valientlink

Valientlink

    ~V@LîΣÑTLîÑK~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Bread
  • Location:Earth

Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:33 PM

Heh, thanks man. I really do need to put a lot more work into it before releasing it though. I will say this, by November it should be complete.

#38 Valientlink

Valientlink

    ~V@LîΣÑTLîÑK~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Bread
  • Location:Earth

Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

UPDATE: For the last month or so, work on the quest has slowed down. My life has gotten really out of hand, but my semester is finally over. I was pushing for a 2012 release, and it may still be so... But I realized that one of the reasons it fell short was because I was trying to get it up before 2013.

The point is, expect it soon. It'll be as polished as I can get it to be, with every bug squished.

#39 Valientlink

Valientlink

    ~V@LîΣÑTLîÑK~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Bread
  • Location:Earth

Posted 09 September 2016 - 02:05 PM

I'm happy to say this quest is close to completion, even though it should have been completed in 2012. If any of you out there are still interested in it, please let me know as I need bug testers (I'm pretty confident it has no bugs, but I thought the same thing before I found at least 4 game ending ones).




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users