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Let's Play Forum Rule Changes


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#1 Russ

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:40 AM

Edit: Please see here for some additional information and clarifications.

 

Hi everyone,

I'm here to announce that we're making some changes to the LP forum. When it was first conceived, the forum was designed to be a place for Let's Players to interact with the PureZC community and to promote discussion of LPs. When the forum wasn't initially doing that, we tried amending the rules to promote discussion. However, that rule change hasn't been particularly effective. The vast majority of threads in the forum have little to no posts that aren't just a "Hey, there's a new video" update, and even the posts that aren't by the topic creator rarely generate discussion. While some members have put a great amount of care into their LP threads (and I want to give a shout-out to NewJourneysFire here, who went above and beyond when the LP forum changes first into effect), the net result hasn't been what we were hoping. The forum is generally clogged with lots of updates and no discussion, amounting to little more than a link-spam.

With that in mind, we're implementing changes to the forum once again. From here on out, LP threads may not be bumped with daily video uploads. The first post may link to a playlist, and present an update schedule, but new posts for each successive video upload are discouraged. This is not to say updates of any kind are forbidden from being posted. However, our intent is for the LP threads to contain a link to the LP at the start and discussion or major updates in the posts that follow. While it may seem counter-intuitive, we hope this will increase the amount of traffic the forum sees, as several members have told us that they don't wish to view the forum at all due to becoming lost in page after page of links.

Streams are a bit of a special case, as stream schedules can change from day to day. We'd love if it streamers could present a schedule for the next few days when possible, updating the thread only to announce a change in stream time or game being streamed, but we understand this isn't always practical. Because of the unique circumstances surrounding streams, we're allowing for a bit more leeway here.

These changes are going into effect immediately. If you have any concerns or suggestions, you're welcome to voice them here. We hope these changes will lead to more engaging and community-centered LP forum.



#2 pixcalibur

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 02:38 AM

Yeah, this may be a bit tricky to handle.  At least partially depends on how popular the person is on PureZC in general.  If a person is on the more popular side, it's easier to get any discussion going in general.  However, for the less popular people, their stuff is going to get buried below in the threads no matter what.  For example, I'm probably on the more invisible side in general, so I more often end up with empty threads, which there isn't much to do about that.

 

But yeah, the link spam quickly buries other threads below in quick fashion.  I'm not going to lie, I'm guilty of this link spamming as well.  So for the current LP I'm doing, I'd just not post any more stuff there given it would be just more links.  For later LP's, I probably could just make one post with a link to the playlist and mention that new parts go up every other day, which is what I currently do.  No real need to post anything else for that thread unless I'm away for some time, but with that, I upload parts way ahead to compensate.  I know that most of my LP threads will get buried under very quickly given likely lack of discussion, but my signature will have the link to the current LP playlist for reference.  

 

If one could imagine the YouTube comment contents going into the threads, that would at least generate some amount of discussion and questions about the LP and quest in general.  One could put links in the replies going to specific parts of a video to demonstrate whatever concept of interest.


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#3 thepsynergist

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 04:14 AM

Wouldn't it be better as a forum option, if when you "double posted", the site just appended the post to the previous post?  That way, it'd be a large comment string, rather than multiple posts, and it may solve the issue of "link spamming".


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#4 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 05:52 AM

Ouch!

And suddenly, just like that. The format I've created and got comfortable with suddenly got squashed.

#5 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 09:30 AM

To be honest, I found that the thread bumps were useful, to know what was current, or active, and to know at what point an LP had reached.  I tend to wait until successive videos in a series are uploaded, before I start watching them. Many uploaders do not create playlists at all, or wait until a series is concluded. Eppy is one of those, so this effectively means that the viewers need to rely on YouTube to determine what video is next in a series. This rarely works; read, almost never, as YouTube's automated content matching is rubbish.

 

For streams, thread announcements the day before, or the day of, are crucial. People may have schedules, but no-one adheres to them very solidly; and knowing what the stream content will be in advance is how some of us determine what to view. Editing the top post doesn't help all that much, as the thread can be lost somewhere off the first page, editing doesn't bump it, and when looking for something active to watch, that's what viewers search through.

 

Honestly, I don't see the point of this rule conversion:

 

Is the database too large at this point to handle URL posts for the (what do we have, ten or twelve active, at most) LP threads, which are generally under 100 bytes of text each?

 

Who is this rule helping; who does it benefit? The person that randomly dropped into the forum not knowing what to expect, saw a bunch of links and went crying to the staff?

 

It clearly doesn't help either the LPers, or the viewers of the LPs. I ask this, in a serious tone, but for the love of sanity, who on the forum now does posting the updates harm? Ask if the harm, if any, outweighs the good of viewers being able to easily follow these things.

 

Would it be nice to have discussion on that board? It'd be nice to have discussion, on any board. A quick scan of the forums of late indicates a faint pulse. Additional stuff like this, just does more harm than good, IMO, if you want to attract new, and keep existing members.

 

I've never even heard of members complaining about this subject matter; at least not in substantially recent history.

 

P.S. I have to admit, if the topic title for this is intended to be a double-entendre, you succeeded; and I certainly read it as such. In fact, it wasn't immediately obvious that the post was intended to relate to the LP boards,to me, until I read it. If so, good show. If not though,...

 

P.P.S, If a format change was to be extremely useful for the LP forums, I'd say that a separation between ZC LP threads and 'everything else' LP threads is the way to go.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 17 December 2016 - 09:59 AM.

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#6 Nathaniel

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 10:36 AM

While I had no part in these rule changes, I think it's at least worth giving a chance.  If it helps attain our goals for the LP forum, then great.  If it fails, in which we would need to look beyond just initial reactions, then things could eventually be changed.  Despite that, I have my doubts that there exists any such good solution for the LP forum being more community oriented.  I myself have no suggestions outside of convincing people to be more community focused.  I think a lot of that relies on the LPers themselves.  Do they really want to interact in this community more?  And if they attempt to be:  Are they doing so begrudgingly, or do they see it as a new means of helping themselves?  I think that certainly varies depending on each LPer's attitude.  Overall, I think this is a difficult sort of beast to solve if too many people aren't willing to interact more with their viewers or even potential viewers.  I see this as less of a problem with steamers, since live stuff more naturally encourages discussion, while LPs are arranged in advance, and thus LPers are less likely to be interested in the "after comments".

I'm also concerned that some of the LPers may never see this announcement because they may rarely look outside of their threads, or more broadly, the LP forum.  It would be nice to get some input from a few others who frequent that forum, even if they rarely or never look outside of it.

Ideally, I would love to see some sort of agreement between LPers and PureZC staff.  For the LPers, there is this concern for being more noticed (thus more views), and for PureZC staff, there is this concern for community interaction.  But that requires enough two way communication.  I honestly think that both ends can work with each other, not against.  To get people interested in your stuff, you also have to be interested in such other people.  I think sometimes that might get lost with people.  When you're pretty small time on youtube, which nearly all youtubers are, I think you need to get to know your viewers, and the people in the communities you visit.  Be involved in discussions with people with common interests.  Check out some of the other forums more often.  I think that's the starting point for those who are mostly just sticking to the LP forum, using PureZC mostly as a means to their ends.  If you show interest in other people in a way that doesn't feel too forced, that is the beginning to getting people to look at your videos, even though there is never a sure guarantee of that.

I know that creating LPs alone can be a lot of work, and unfortunately all that effort many LPers put into their videos is often not enough.  I just think there is a social element to the mix that is often disregarded because people might think it's enough work to do what they already are doing, or they might just be too shy.
 


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#7 Russ

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 10:48 AM

Wouldn't it be better as a forum option, if when you "double posted", the site just appended the post to the previous post?  That way, it'd be a large comment string, rather than multiple posts, and it may solve the issue of "link spamming".

There is an option to merge double posts made within x hours of each other. We've turned it on in the past, even. However, it does interfere with stuff like claiming the second post in LP threads, and it applies board-wide, so it's not without its issues. It is certainly something we can consider though, if a majority of users feel like they'd want such a system.
 

Ouch!

And suddenly, just like that. The format I've created and got comfortable with suddenly got squashed.

Admittedly, you were one of the biggest arguments against the rule changes. Your format was really cool, and really fun to read too. The biggest issue is that you were really the only person who was putting in that amount of effort, while most other LPers hit the bare minimum requirements (or didn't even meet those in some cases). I don't want to discourage you from continuing to do stuff like you've been doing though. There's nothing in this rule to keep you from editing your first post and adding a blurb like your usual updates when new videos go live, and creating a new post if you hit the character limit. That would be totally acceptable. We want to be flexible enough with these rules to avoid stiffling creativity while still addressing the issues.
 

To be honest, I found that the thread bumps were useful, to know what was current, or active, and to know at what point an LP had reached.  I tend to wait until successive videos in a series are uploaded, before I start watching them. Many uploaders do not create playlists at all, or wait until a series is concluded. Eppy is one of those, so this effectively means that the viewers need to rely on YouTube to determine what video is next in a series. This rarely works; read, almost never, as YouTube's automated content matching is rubbish.
 
For streams, thread announcements the day before, or the day of, are crucial. People may have schedules, but no-one adheres to them very solidly; and knowing what the stream content will be in advance is how some of us determine what to view. Editing the top post doesn't help all that much, as the thread can be lost somewhere off the first page, editing doesn't bump it, and when looking for something active to watch, that's what viewers search through.

We're well aware of the issue with streams. That's why these rules don't really apply to stream threads. While we'd like if users could present a schedule, we understand people often can't for various personal reasons (Eppy actually comes to mind, since you used him as an example) so we're still allowing such stream threads bumps, since we can't really think of a better alternative.

Who is this rule helping; who does it benefit? The person that randomly dropped into the forum not knowing what to expect, saw a bunch of links and went crying to the staff?

It clearly doesn't help either the LPers, or the viewers of the LPs. I ask this, in a serious tone, but for the love of sanity, who on the forum now does posting the updates harm? Ask if the harm, if any, outweighs the good of viewers being able to easily follow these things.

I'd argue that in a great many ways, it helps the LPers. With the forum in its current state, a lot of people don't even read it. Your average person doesn't want to wade through link dumps. It's also been a problem with moderation, as the staff doesn't particularly want to read through link dumps either. :P

Additionally, there's the issue of a forum's purpose. Forums should generate discussion among members of the community. The old LP rules simply weren't doing that. The forum served only to allow LPers to advertise their product on a daily basis, and there was no discussion going on. We're happy to have LPers here, and to give them a medium for presenting and discussing their work, but we feel like the discussion's a crucial component. And under these new rules, we hope that more discussion will be generated, allowing for more community involving and giving the LPers vital feedback. It's a win-win.

Would it be nice to have discussion on that board? It'd be nice to have discussion, on any board.

I'm all for discussion. That's why this announcement's open to posting. The rules aren't set in stone. If our members suggest a solution that jives with the wishes of the community and solves the fundamental problem here, we'll gladly consider it.
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#8 Anthus

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 11:31 AM

Edited for clarity.

As someone who just started doing LPs I can see both sides to this, as a player, and as a viewer. I don't think this rule change is going to be a good idea though. People are already not really seeming to like it, and I think it is the wrong way to go about fixing the "problem", which isn't really that big of a problem, imo. The LP forum has always been kind of a niche, often feeling like its own thing away from PureZC; a hub to allow us to share games we're playing. It's an LP forum. Imagine that, people posting updates to their LPs. Maybe that's the problem? I just think that pressing more restrictions and rules on people is going to make productivity, and site morale, if you will, go down. The site is already experiencing a large lull, and this could easily turn into another "rating system" (which will be forever referred to as "ratergate") level fiasco, and make even more people distant, or pissed off.

I did spend a lot of time watching LPs before too, and the "link dumping" never really bothered me. I think as long as there is enough information in the post about the part being added, it shouldn't matter if they make consecutive posts. As Zoria already touched on, it's nice to know which LPs are active, or which LPs are finished. I don't think this rule change will immediately get people talking in the LP forum, if that is it's purpose either. A lot of people also use YouTube's comments to, well, comment on the videos, and discuss it. I get that the staff doesn't want to wade through it all, and it does seem kind of shallow, or campy to just dump links (not saying the people who do so are, but I can see why people might think that) but I'm just not so sure this is the best solution, but I can't really formulate a better alternative at this time.

To clarify, with this new rule, a post like this or this is not okay, but a post like this, this, or this is? I kind of prefer adding more than one section at a time, as it is less work, and editing, and formatting posts for me too. I've actually been trying to add at least three, or two sections at a time to any given LP. I also have another question regarding "LP index threads". Are we allowed to update these daily, or multiple times a day if actual substantial content has been added (several videos, an LP has wrapped, a new one has started. etc)? The index threads are more of less a hub for finding the user's individual LP threads easily on a time-based threaded forum, so there probably isn't much room for a lot of discussion there, unless the viewers want to suggest stuff to play, or give tips on recording in general. If you look at my LP thread in my sig, you'll see that I update the main thread to say I've added parts to, sometimes, several LPs. Is that still okay, as long as it is not a bump to say "hey, part 46 is up"? What happens if there is a discussion in an LP thread? Is there some arbitrary threshold at which we can post new sections again? I feel like the more I'm thinking about this, the less I see the point.

On a side note, I wish more LPers in general would put in the times of interesting stuff. I know it is a lot of extra work, but I don't always want to sit through a 30 minute video if I'm trying to find a boss battle, or something like that. I'm basically just wondering if my current approach to LPs is okay, with having an "index thread" that has big updates (game announcements, LP wrapping/ starting, a bunch of parts added to a few different LPs in one day, etc) then have posts in the individual LP threads that add two or more parts, but offer some information, and description, and generally speaking, times of interest? With the way I currently do it, the Playlist is linked to in the first post, and all of the descriptions, and times for all the parts are in spoiler tags in that post. Any bumps link directly to the new video, or reference the first post. If we're not allowed to bump them, how will people know we've added stuff? This line seems too fine.


While it may seem counter-intuitive,

Yes. Sorry, but yes. It really does.

we hope this will increase the amount of traffic the forum sees,

Less posts won't increase traffic. Less updates won't increase traffic. At least, I don't think it will. People aren't going to be flooding in to talk about stuff just because there are less link-dumps. A bigger problem is, LPers need to work harder to make people want to talk about their stuff. I get banning just straight-up link dumps, but why can't you post adding one section a day, if there is a solid description, and content?

as several members have told us that they don't wish to view the forum at all due to becoming lost in page after page of links.

Who? Are they active members? Is it a big enough percent of the community to warrant a rule change like this?

Admittedly, you were one of the biggest arguments against the rule changes. Your format was really cool, and really fun to read too.

Then why force NJF to change it? You said yourself, it is fun to watch.

Rule changes like this make me a bit uneasy. I try really hard to follow to rules here, and this does seem kind of unnecessary, but I do kind of see the larger problem this is trying to correct, again, just not sure I have an answer either. I will say, frankly, this feels useless and is something that I can see causing another big rift in this community. It's almost better the way it was until something better can be done. Of course, I would like it if people did discuss stuff more, but I feel like it has to happen organically. An example, I've watched tons of NJF's, and pixcalibur's ZC LPs, but I've not commented once (until very recently, that is, now I do post more cause I'm more active in the LP forum). I'm not really there to talk about it, I don't mind just watching, and this will make it harder to do that in a forum that is pretty much for that. This also makes the viewer have to work harder too in terms of remembering stuff, and checking in, as Dimentio said below. You can't just throw down rules, and tell people they HAVE to discuss stuff.


I think I'm finally done messing with this post. There went my morning :P


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#9 Dimentio

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 11:37 AM

but we will no longer allow a new post for each successive video upload

...I'll just ask this now: Who is this rule targetting? It seems this rule was created and tailored for those LPers who post every second day. What about those who take weeks, even months to make and upload videos? Those who don't have a consistent schedule? I fall under both of these categories, and I have to ask, is this rule change the forum's way of saying that my videos aren't all that important? That my videos deserve to only be posted every half a year, for my failure to keep to a specific schedule? This rule seems to be under the impression that people will remember to come back every day for a new LP. I am a huge fan of one of Game Grump's latest LPs, but I don't remember to come back every day, because of my short attention span and youtube only notifying me 3 days after I last watched them, meaning I have to binge watch the  episodes I missed. Is that what this rule is encouraging people to do? Encouraging discussion is great, but this rule seems to causing some collateral damage on LPers it wasn't intended to harm.

And honestly this whole pushing towards a schedule is quite stupid. 


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#10 pixcalibur

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:59 PM

I'd argue that in a great many ways, it helps the LPers. With the forum in its current state, a lot of people don't even read it. Your average person doesn't want to wade through link dumps. It's also been a problem with moderation, as the staff doesn't particularly want to read through link dumps either. :P

Additionally, there's the issue of a forum's purpose. Forums should generate discussion among members of the community. The old LP rules simply weren't doing that. The forum served only to allow LPers to advertise their product on a daily basis, and there was no discussion going on. We're happy to have LPers here, and to give them a medium for presenting and discussing their work, but we feel like the discussion's a crucial component. And under these new rules, we hope that more discussion will be generated, allowing for more community involving and giving the LPers vital feedback. It's a win-win.

Well, I don't think anyone just goes through the entire forum.  They just pick and choose what they want to look at.  Nothing you can really do about what people decide to look at.  I can see how the link dumps can get annoying, as it can get hard just to find one specific part.  A link to the LP playlist should be at a minimum if you want to reduce link clutter, but it also relies on the LPer actually creating the playlist and putting the videos in there.  Otherwise, one has to go the person's whole YouTube channel to find a specific part, but most any channel will likely have other videos spaced in there as well.  Or more simply, in an older LP, it's going to be buried deep inside the video list.

 

I think LP's themselves aren't really going to get that much discussion in general.  It's not like a help discussion thread, which easily gets lots of questions, suggestions, and various other posts to generate topics for discussion.  LP's are mostly just a bunch of videos and links.  Not many topics to start up other than play style, video content, and I guess hints and/or things missed (which doesn't do anything for me given I have the whole LP done before even uploading the first part).  But even then, most of those types of comment are more likely to end up found in the YouTube video itself instead of the thread.  Help questions again just go in the help thread for that quest

 

Just posting everywhere you go does not guarantee anything, and may make you appear annoying.  If there's something you want to discuss in whatever LP you're watching, then feel free to post, but it should be more than just a few words.  A lot of times, I'll watch stuff, but not comment on it given there may not be anything specific to comment on.  If the quest looks interesting, I'll give it a try myself.  I try to refrain from major spoilers unless the person is really stuck.

 

And yeah, people upload on their own schedules, so it's hard to really predict anything about when updates may come along.  And many of us just watch something when we have a moment.  Life goes on, so many people have their obligations to attend to first.  I don't think anyone obsesses over the forums all day long.

 

I think already mentioned above, could consider putting ZC LP's and console LP's in separate threads.  May help with some of the clutter in the LP thread


Edited by pixcalibur, 17 December 2016 - 01:44 PM.

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#11 Anthus

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:52 PM

I know I already posted, but I also think it would not be a bad idea to split ZC LPs from all other LPs. That would keep things a bit more organized, but that, in itself, is probably going to be a shit load of work to manually move threads. I would be willing to volunteer to help with this process though, if such an action is taken. One question would be, can we still have one LP thread for all our LPs, then link to the threads in either LP forum? I'm also sorry if my first post sounded rude, or pointed, but I wanted to get everything I thought down, and ask all the questions I needed. I have no problem with you Russ, I just have a lot of questions ;)

 

I think the staff does a pretty good job at listening, most of the time, and I think we can come to some agreement here.


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#12 Dimentio

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:02 PM

Another problem with this: You're punishing both viewers with bad memory and LPers just because there's no conversation potential. What is there to say? "Wow, you did a good job going from point A to point B!" "Oh, nice boss kill! You just barely won!", etc. The problem here, is that A: the few people who view the LP forums are there to watch videos, not discuss, and B: at no point was ever made clear until now that the LP Forums true purpose was LPer/Viewer interactivity. Up until now, it was seen as a place to serve new, entertaining content to people looking for that (AKA Advertising), and discussion was something that showew that people actually cared about your videos. Why not just make it clear that the point of the subforum is to encourage discussion?



#13 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:28 PM

Well, I don't think anyone just goes through the entire forum.  They just pick and choose what they want to look at.  Nothing you can really do about what people decide to look at.  I can see how the link dumps can get annoying, as it can get hard just to find one specific part.  A link to the LP playlist should be at a minimum if you want to reduce link clutter, but it also relies on the LPer actually creating the playlist and putting the videos in there.  Otherwise, one has to go the person's whole YouTube channel to find a specific part, but most any channel will likely have other videos spaced in there as well.  Or more simply, in an older LP, it's going to be buried deep inside the video list.
 

 

(Emphasis, mine.)

 

Pretty much, this. YouTube's present video lists are downright dreadful. Go try to find a specific video on Eppy's channel, and tell me how long it takes. The real problem with YouTUbe, is that they are intentionally making it harder to jump to content like this, in the hope that you will become annoyed and watch something that generates more revenue for them.

 

 

Another problem with this: You're punishing both viewers with bad memory and LPers just because there's no conversation potential. [...] the few people who view the LP forums are there to watch videos, not discuss,

I agree wholly with both of these statements. Seeing the new post pop up with 'new part' was a good way to be reminded of new videos. I effectively only watch ZC LPs, and LPs that are of retro-games, or retro-style games, so it was useful to see what was new, what was current, and what was of interest, at a glance.

 

This pretty much makes the whole LPs forum useless, save for streams, which shouldn't even be mixed with LPs IMO.

 

I never felt much of a point to discussing LPs at any length. When is that kind of conversation useful? When the LP is entirely over, and as the action occurs, which in the case of an LP, was well-before you saw the video. People comment on streams, during the stream. For a pre-recorded video upload, the typical comments are posted on YouTube directly, and are usually one line remarks.

 

Who jumps to the forum to discuss how x-person missed a secret on a screen in a video that they likely recorded a week, or longer, back? Was this the type of thing that people expected when the forum was created?

 

When the LP is over, people might discuss it, but these things are often serialised taking weeks, months, or even more than a year to go from start to climax; by which time anything useful that people may have wanted to say is lost to memory cobwebs.

 

As far as I was aware, the whole point of the LP forum was for announcements, and updates. So, now people probably just won't use it much at all. :shrug: This is precisely the type of thing that should have gone into a user poll, with 'Do you favour this change.' before implementation.

 

I just give up, and I don't know any more... Can we play 'Let's find a way to chase away even more users?', next?


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 17 December 2016 - 03:32 PM.

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#14 pixcalibur

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 04:05 PM

I never felt much of a point to discussing LPs at any length. When is that kind of conversation useful? When the LP is entirely over, and as the action occurs, which in the case of an LP, was well-before you saw the video. People comment on streams, during the stream. For a pre-recorded video upload, the typical comments are posted on YouTube directly, and are usually one line remarks.

 

Who jumps to the forum to discuss how x-person missed a secret on a screen in a video that they likely recorded a week, or longer, back? Was this the type of thing that people expected when the forum was created?

 

When the LP is over, people might discuss it, but these things are often serialised taking weeks, months, or even more than a year to go from start to climax; by which time anything useful that people may have wanted to say is lost to memory cobwebs.

 

As far as I was aware, the whole point of the LP forum was for announcements, and updates. So, now people probably just won't use it much at all. :shrug: This is precisely the type of thing that should have gone into a user poll, with 'Do you favour this change.' before implementation.

 

I just give up, and I don't know any more... Can we play 'Let's find a way to chase away even more users?', next?

Pretty much true when it comes down to LP's.  Rarely do people record one part at a time and upload it then.  Most of us are too busy with our personal life stuff that we often will record in blocks of parts when we have that bit of time.

 

Again, LP's are just a bunch of videos, not really that much to discuss in general.  For me, it's almost pointless to point out stuff I may have missed, as I record the whole LP before even uploading part 1.  So I really don't expect much of any discussion in my stuff, as what is there to discuss?  I can't take any hints into account given the LP is already fully recorded.  I could put time markers, but only when people ask about specific things, otherwise, that would be too cumbersome.

 

For the most part, discussions would go into the quest discussion thread where all the questions about the quest and how to proceed get asked.  So unless you have an uncommon quest that has no topic in the quest discussion, then I suppose the LP thread itself could turn into the discussion thread, with links to a new thread in the main quest discussion form as needed.

 

Also, I don't think people would upload the entire LP from start to finish in one go.  When some stuff can run 50+ parts, no one's going to bother watching all that, as there's not enough time in the day to do so.

 

Really hard to draw the lines here given styles vary so widely



#15 ywkls

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 04:19 PM

I don't normally weigh in on things like this and I can see some from both sides of this discussion so I'm going to try and share an opinion that will hopefully come off as unbiased. (That being said, I think you'll understand what my conclusion on this matter is.)

 

First, I remember when the last change to the LP forums rules went up and noted a few instances where people merrily went their own way and did nothing but dump a bunch of non-descriptive links into the thread every time that a video was posted.

 

Clearly, this is the sort of behavior the rule is meant to curtail. If you post a link to a video of a game, rather than just the raw link data and the part number; it's sometimes helpful to a person who wants to watch an LP (for example, to find out how to solve a puzzle or get an item or where to go next) to have a context for what the video contains.

 

Unfortunately, there are also times whenever a video may contain essentially nothing because the person playing the game is doing so blind; there are no other LP's of the game for them to refer to and they don't want to ask the creator for help unless absolutely necessary. (Or not at all.)

 

So, how would would a person comment on a video of the LP'er wandering around for half an hour or more; especially if this went on for two or three videos? One solution that some seem to have adopted is not to post a single video link whenever they create one; but only after a certain amount of progress has been made. Anyways, that's enough on that matter.

 

Secondly, I noted (as did others here) that while it has been said that complaints have been made about the way that things are currently being done, this rule change has come without any real awareness of the fact that it was impending except perhaps in the Staff. This can bother some users.

 

Whenever a web site changes it's rules, users are usually obligated to follow them. I have no problem with that myself and since I don't make LP's; I doubt that this alteration will really affect me. However, generally speaking; whenever there is a desire or need to change the way things are handled the users of a site are consulted before the fact to let them know that such a thing could happen soon unless their behavior changes.

 

Instead, what might appear to be happening here is that an abrupt; seemingly arbitrary change has occurred which will have a negative impact on some of those who are currently members of the site. Whenever you combine this with the fact that this isn't the first time something of this sort (a change of rules regarding one of the site's features which seemed to come out of nowhere) has happened; then it can certainly confuse and even turn away some who would otherwise use the site.

 

I hope that this isn't the case.

 

Finally, I would like to remind anyone else who has had these concerns that the outcome of the changes which are being made cannot be known in advance. Will this negatively affect those who do LP's? Will this enliven discussion of a game that is being LP'd? Honestly, I don't think that anyone can say one way or another at this point. What can be said is this.

 

Most LP's are either done far ahead of the time that they are posted or are entirely completed. In cases such as this, who exactly is supposed to be discussing the LP? A user might try to provide hints on things missed or a method needed to do something, but the chances of such information being helpful to the person doing the LP isn't very high.

 

In order for there to be discussion of an LP, there have to be people who want to discuss the LP outside of the person doing it and perhaps the creator of the game/quest. Most of the time that I comment on something is either during a stream or after a part has been posted where I noted something relevant that I wanted to bring to the attention of the person doing the LP.

 

There is always an option to change this rule at a future date, if it turns out that things don't work as anticipated (or they go horribly wrong, as some seem to feel they might). Therefore, while I can understand the motivations behind the change in the rules, I'm not entirely sure what it is supposed to accomplish or how.


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