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Do you like these quest ideas/how much is too much?


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#1 MrPow

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:30 PM

I have been messing around with the editor for about a fortnight and I believe I'm ready to start laying out some of my ideas onto paper and eventually into an actual quest.

 

Before I get too deep into anything I wanted to get peoples opinions on certain features of a quest and weather they are fun and add to the quest, or if they are annoying and tedious and end up being more of a burden. So...

 

 

 

How do you feel about....

 

 

..longer, story driven quests?

  • one main story line with a few optional mini story lines the player can choose to follow or not.
  • npc characters the player actually cares about and wants to follow-up with their story
  • optional mini stories might take the player to otherwise inaccessible secret areas and finishing the mini story could lead to unique rewards (like more powerful versions of items, not needed to beat the quest, but makes it worth doing)

..large overworlds?

  • I just can't fit all my area design ideas into one 8x16 overworld (DoR takes up a lot of space) so I wanted to use 2 overworlds (North Fakelandia and South Fakelandia, meant to be viewed as one continuous map)

..backtracking?

  • Level Q can be completed with Item A and Item B, but if you come back later with Item F, you can snag additional items (HCP, rupees, collectables, etc)

..screens connected by maze-like paths?

  • I can take a 2x2 grid of screens, throw a large tree in the very center, and wall off the outer borders and make a nice open 4-screen field. At the same time, I can take the same 2x2 grid, and make it a mountain with crazy maze-like, back-and-forth, multi-splitting paths of multi-leveled cliff heights and mini cave systems that would take the player 4x longer to explore fully and navigate through.

..quests that are heavily rupee-focused (many ways to earn, lots to buy)

  • Many wallet upgrades (5, i think)
  • Wallet restrictions help direct game progress and item collection (somewhat)
  • Dungeons do not have 'dungeon items', instead, players purchase appropriate item before going to dungeon
  • Dungeon item chests (ya know, the big ones) instead give large amounts of rupees
  • Many ways to make rupees (more rupee chests, higher rupee drops, money making games, secrets, monsters drop items that are sold to merchants)
  • Many things to spend money on (equipment, mini games that reward HPCs, hints and information, donation fountains that upgrade certain items, maybe at a certain point you will have to bribe a guard or pay someone to rob a caravan, or an option to finance a young blacksmiths apprenticeship in hopes that someday he will be able to forge you a mighty blade)
  • The majority of items can be purchased from the beginning (with enough cash), allowing player to complete dungeons in whatever order they buy items in (Think of ALBW)

..items that exist purely to enhance puzzles, (what if the puzzle styles recur throughout the majority of the quest?)

  • Cane of Sumo-something? (from ALttP) that creates a push-able block you can use to activate switches
  • Dominion Rod (from TP) that allows you to control statues so you can... uhh... activate switches
  • Warp Doll (from the Scripts Database) that deploys a warp doll and then allows you to swap places with it... for clever push-block puzzles so you can activate switches!!!!

..tons of items?

  • Boomerang and Ice Rod both essentially stun enemies without doing damage, but Ice Rod can put out the shooting flames that block your path to that one place, and frozen enemies can be used to activate pressure triggers, while the boomerang can flip switches that the Ice Rod cannot as well as fly in 8 cardinal directions. Does this make it worth having both items?

..trading sequences?

  • find a specific item, trade it to a specific someone for another specific item. rinse and repeat xx times until you get to a unique reward

..collectables?

  • Secret Seashells from LA (scattered all over the world, collect 50 or 100 for a unique reward)

 



#2 cavthena

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 02:57 PM

These are all in my opinion. Remember there is not any single best method for any of your ideas. Just what fits your game or the audience best and sometimes breaking the norm or expected can always be a win too. However only you can know what that is. The best advice I can give is let your game decide what it needs to be.

Story Quests are a good design type and in my opinion more fun than drop and go quests. The length isn't important they can be as long or short as they require. Remember longer isn't always better. MM was a shorter game than say OoT but the story in my opinion was superior.

Again larger isn't always better. If your Overworld is large but empty then what's the point? Small but dense is typically the better choice here. Let each screen mean something let it tell a story and you'll keep your players engaged longer.

Backtracking can be useful. I break backtracking down into 2 groups, local and global. Local is like backtracking in a single dungeon or zone. While global is crossing multiple zones. It's not bad to use it but you should keep in mind a few things. First players can be forgetful, the player could possibly forget that the backtrack area is there. To many backtracks can get annoying. Space them out instead of back to back. And try to limit global backtracking to 1 or 2 times in a quest.

Maze like paths... Not much to say only if the area or zone calls for it. Don't force it people can tell when you do.

Rupees are a design choice. I like going with the middle ground a moderate amount of spending with majority of that on side quests or minigames. If you want to make shopping a major and nessesary part then you'll need to include a fair amount of secret rupee locations or drops and give hints on what kind of items the players need to buy and when. Or risk falling into the grind fest and I don't need to tell you what'll happen to your quest then.

I call these utility items and I feel they are nessesary to make the game better. However keep a careful eye on design. Make sure the item stays important and useful throughout the entire quest.

This is the same as the large Overworld, More isn't always better. With fewer items you can make them more important and keep them useful throughout your quest. Let the item selection naturally fit into your quest. If you force an item into it without a plan as to why or how it's there then the player will notice and the game will suffer. Having one or two items with low utility or use is ok... I'm looking at you invisible cloak.

Trading. Yes. No questions asked. Seriously this is the single best option for either a optional or required side quest line.

Collectables are also a good idea for filling your world and giving a distraction from the main storyline (important!). The nature of collection style side quests typically means that you should make sure to keep it optional for the player and not require it to complete the quest but if you did it could make the quest easier. The reward for these should also reflect the amount or length of the collection. The more you need or longer it takes to collect the required amount the better the reward.
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#3 Mani Kanina

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 07:28 AM

My answer to one and all of your questions is this:

There is no right answer.

I'm sure practically every player here have varying preferences on all of these things, and as such I don't believe you're going get any useful information out of this. For example, I generally despise large worlds/maps that feel larger than I believer they need to be, but others? They might love games for that very reason, I know a few who do. Unless you set out to please a specific demographic, then I think you'd be better of to instead just decide on what YOU want to make. (And then later iterate on it as needed).

#4 KingPridenia

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:35 AM

Much like Lunaria said, there really isn't a definitive answer. Any concept could be well or not so well executed. Taking your Rupee-focused quest as an example, if in my opinion would work if prices are balanced out with how many Rupees you find through regular monster slaying and exploration, with a realistic amount of out of the way grinding specifically for money being acceptable. When I feel the idea would fail is if you end up forced to grind for long periods of time, slowing down the game's pace through artificial longevity. But what I would consider "realistic amounts of Rupee grinding" another may consider slowing down the game.

 

What I personally get turned off by is when a quest tries too hard to be something it's not, or sacrifices a gameplay element in favor of flashiness. One such thing would be with scripts. Sure, you can cram all kinds of nifty scripted features into your quest, but if your overworld/dungeon design come off as lazy and boring, it's not going to matter much. Likewise, you can't have beautifully designed maps with horrendously unbalanced enemies.

 

My best advice is to go with whatever idea you like the most, and design the quest to be what you would consider a great game. Try to place yourself in the shoes of the player. For example, you'll know where all of the secrets are. You should think about it like "If I was playing this quest for the first time, what would I do?" This is one flaw I personally had in the past, where I blindly assumed anyone that would play my quest was a die-hard Z1 expert and knew all the tricks. What followed was secrets with no rhyme or reason and unbalanced difficulty. In fact, one time I executed a gimmick so poorly that some players thought the first dungeon was unbeatable. I blindly assumed everyone would try pushing blocks. The result? People got stuck, thought you had to fight some Moldorms with a limited weapon to progress and never once thought to push blocks. Had I put some kind of hint in to nudge the player in the right direction, many ragequits could have been avoided.

 

That being said, NEVER assume the player will be able to figure out what to do. As I stated, it led to an unpleasant time for many. Something as simple as having blocks patterned differently, changing a block's color or even a simple guy telling the player he/she can find stairways hidden underneath certain blocks would have made all the difference.

 

Bottomline, do what you feel is going to be liked, and make tweaks based on the feedback you receive.



#5 Dark Ice Dragon

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 01:55 PM

my opinions in red

 

How do you feel about....

..longer, story driven quests ? i'm agree whit the opinion of Cavthena.

..large overworlds? no, you may do many oveworlds, but if they are to big they may be boring, maybe you can made a main oveworld that act like a map for enter in smaller regions

..backtracking? yes, i will like it but only if is optional

..screens connected by maze-like paths? i don't like that but is my personal opinion, unless it cover a optional item

..quests that are heavily rupee-focused (many ways to earn, lots to buy) well, i can say something here, time ago i started a project of a quest based on this, it cost a lot of efford and time for found a good balance between the rupees and price the item to buy and put all shops in strategic points, but at the end i quit it 'cause the quest was become too boring...but if i failed in this that don't mean you will fail too.

just remembe that once you start this it may lead to a dead-end....just think if you change mind : you will need to remove many of the rupees scattered around, remove or edit all the shops and put the items that was for sale in the dungeons..

..items that exist purely to enhance puzzles, (what if the puzzle styles recur throughout the majority of the quest?) special item for puzzles is fine...a  quest full of riddles is fine only if they are not too hard.

..tons of items?YEAH!​

..trading sequences? supercool

..collectablesnice!  if it is the main side-quest, even better



#6 Avaro

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:50 AM

As long as you know how to do these things, I'd say go ahead! Also, I agree with what the others said.


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