Jump to content

Photo

For Whom the Seasons Cycle - development announcement


  • Please log in to reply
181 replies to this topic

#31 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:58 PM

Was Bell the inspiration behind Flandre Scarlet? I often see Flandre in fan fiction, but in official games not, so I can't understand her character enough(but fan fiction author likes her, and give her character pure mostly, sometimes cruel).

Seija!? Great, you seem to love maniac characters. And you told us, a huge liar is in this quest, a big hint.

 

BB series are really huge, so I forgot a lot of parts of story.


Edited by Stray Sheep, 29 August 2015 - 08:59 PM.

  • WindRobe likes this

#32 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:11 AM

Flandre is indeed portrayed as a maniac in fanfiction, but since the canon material doesn't confirm that, it's not true in canon.

Bell starts out as shy and clueless and it's up to the player to decide what she becomes. The other Flandre-inspired character isn't exactly maniac, either, but no doubt some players will think it so. It's actually good when different players have different opinions on characters.

 

The character inspired by Seija went through much changes while development and eventually it got a load of inspiration from another, non-Touhou character. So, the related FWSC character is absolutely not a liar, exact opposite.

 

Do I like maniac characters?

Hm, thinking about it very hard, maybe their maniacness distances them from the people around them, which makes them cute and lonely in my eyes, giving me an urge to hug them and stay with them. Maybe it's just that if I think of them as lonely, I expect to "competition" from other admirers (family, friends, lovers, etc.).

Thinking about it more, Seija is my absolute favourite. Which further proves that I always choose the hardest way when it comes to characters, since being with Seija would have been exceedingly hard.

 

 

 

Now I finished scripting my secret superboss and I love it.

Originally IoR's SaTAN was a huge inspiration to indeed make such a boss (the original idea came from Final Fantasy), but I don't like SaTAN that much anymore. This secret boss of mine has VERY many different attacks and all are custom, none having the same graphics like usual enemy projectiles ingame and none of the attacks just summon enemies. Maybe best or 2nd best feature in the entireity of FWSC, but still leaves me to think of FWSC as something far too simple compared to features nowadays.

 

 

 

BB having a big story that was easy to forget by now...?

Yes, indeed... Even summing up the main story would take long. And explaining all happenings and backgrounds would take even longer. And if people forget part of a story, it's like it never existed and my time and effort is wasted. Sad. One of the reasons why I need to stop after FWSC.


  • Lightwulf likes this

#33 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:44 AM

BB having a big story that was easy to forget by now...?

Yes, indeed... Even summing up the main story would take long. And explaining all happenings and backgrounds would take even longer. And if people forget part of a story, it's like it never existed and my time and effort is wasted. Sad. One of the reasons why I need to stop after FWSC.

I made a misunderstanding, remember main part of story generally, but can't recall a lot of NPC things, so can't know Valasso's parents. Also, I think most player forget NPC things.

 

BB having a big story that was easy to forget by now...?

Yes, indeed... Even summing up the main story would take long. And explaining all happenings and backgrounds would take even longer. And if people forget part of a story, it's like it never existed and my time and effort is wasted. Sad. One of the reasons why I need to stop after FWSC.

CastChaos..., I know Chrono Cross and Xenogears have many huge fans still, but even they can't recall their stories well without replay. I believe Chrono Cross and Xenogears' story authors never say effort is wasted.

 

And even now, I still love Eight Powers idea, Tyrant, Coral, they are great.


Edited by Stray Sheep, 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM.

  • judasrising and Lightwulf like this

#34 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 30 August 2015 - 05:27 AM

Oh, I understand.

Well all right, it's not a requirement to remember all the NPC plots, there are so many. While playing BB or SB, there was no indication for the player that that thief and that suicidal girl will eventually be important enough to alter the ending in GM.

 

 

So, two bosses left.

Moosh is nice enough to take care of the autumn boss and I soon finish the drama and occassional bullet hell and WHOA THAT IS A HUGE LAZOR final boss.

After that, the content is entirely finished, but I want to add a few small things I planned.

 

Then I play through many different routes, myself and then and ONLY then will I send it out to beta testers, probably not to all of them in just one wave. Because I expect from testers to heavily criticize gameplay and dungeons and bosses in a way that it takes me a month to change and fix them up.

Then and only then comes the Final Beta that is now meant as Release Candidate.

 

I actually feel I rushed FWSC if I released it still this autumn. I feel the same thing I felt when I released GM so abruptly last year on 20th of August, on the day of the biggest Hungarian national holiday.

I actually don't have mood for releasing quests nowadays anyway. All I want is to have a completely non-rushed quest behind me.


  • judasrising and Lightwulf like this

#35 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 01 September 2015 - 04:20 AM

I read CastChaos your posts again. You says FWSC will be your last quest, it's sad for me. But you decided, it's your freedom.

 

So, I just don't know if anybody would care all that in the end.

In BB, I was so excited about the story, but then I gradually learned that I was alone with this.

I was so excited about GM's story, it's so interesting and fun for me.I believe it which you wanted to show really.

In first BB and SB, I think crossovering spoiled your story making talent rather than most player excited about crossover. And I know most dislike any crossover rather than like, if it's not very well.

So many left from your quests then, and most of them wouldn't see your improvement to story sadly.

In BB3, I saw and battled the Tyrant, it's my glory really (but you seem to forget I want to being his/her War Master rather beat him/her).


Edited by Stray Sheep, 01 September 2015 - 04:24 AM.


#36 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 01 September 2015 - 11:44 AM

"In BB3, I saw and battled the Tyrant, it's my glory really (but you seem to forget I want to being his/her War Master rather beat him/her)."

Did you know it was actually possible to make Alma to be War Master in CoP? You needed to find a top top top secret place for that. But it didn't change the ending.

 

"So many left from your quests then, and most of them wouldn't see your improvement to story sadly."

Yeah, people are extremely shallow. They think if one makes one thing in a quest, he/she will always make that exact same thing in all quests. When I was aksing for BB series feedback before starting GM, some people assumed SB and CoP were the exact copies of BB. Pathetic. I have frieckuin SEVENTEEN quests made since 2006, even if they all belonged to the same series, instead of into at least 4-5 + misc, even then it would be a lunatic assumption for they being similar enough to have it be noticable that the same person made them. And I intentionally made some completely differently (NTAEL, Valami) and some came out 100% differently without me intending so (eg. EA: Leisure Stroll).

Sure enough, when MeleeWizard LP'd BB and got the worst ending and decided not to play anymore (not only because (wrongly) assumed version incompatibility), he surely thought that was all of BB's story, being totally oblivious to the fact that the best ending has the true story and that the sequels aren't BB copies, rather all come with different main character than the last, taking place elsewhere than the last. SAD

 

 

 

"You says FWSC will be your last quest, it's sad for me. But you decided, it's your freedom."

It's really not only because the immense trolling that goes beyond zero star ratings without playing, continious demanding for me to not mention my quests on the forums (just look at what mess it made when I dared to use the word "BB" in a general zs discussion thread in 2013's or 2014' autumn) or the past fake youtube accounts that kept spamming awful comments and low ratings on my (not only zc) videos.

It's also not only because the lack of sane relativity, meaning that if one of my quests and an overhyped quest has the exact same feature then the overhyped quest gets to be hyped even more, while my quest gets completely ground down for it. (Insane!)

 

It's also because these two things:

 

1. No more players:

While long ago, players were serious 20+ years olds who were happy for a new ZC quest and were mentally able to learn new things, now "players" are spoiled 12 year old brats who take quests as natural and overlook any wonderful feature just to zero star rate a quest because they don't like one certain combo being next to one certain another at a place or because they think one of the pixels in the quest is slightly offcolour. Or because they see a combo react to an item they never seen to react to so far in any quests.

WHY

would one want to waste their time for making a quest under these circumstances? Overhyped members and troll/joke "quest" makers are still worshipped as gods, no matter what they make IF they even make something, not just proclaim they would make the next quest best and enjoy the praises that are coming like they already made it. Even if years passed since their proclamation without any measurable progress.

 

2. ZC versions:

I was seriously damaged by this beta ordeal, that vista and above couldn't play ZC normally. And it is damaging now, too. As well as for anybody else who made quests (and spent effort on them) before a stable 2.5 came out. Now I heard Win8 doesn't play 2.5 well or anyhow, either. Win10 comes out or came out already, so if there would be any new ZC versions, it would be optimized for that. But even that version will be usable only till a Win11 or so.

Again, this is not problem for those who just throw some joke/troll "quest" together and move on, but for anybody who spent effort into something consistent and new (and maybe loooong), it's a HUUUUUGE waste of their lifetime.

 

 

 

I rushed GM because I thought maybe I wouldn't even be around by now. But I'm here.

So, instead of rushing GM and wasting another year with a new quest, I simply just should have NOT to rush GM and then never open ZQ again. Which latter is pretty much what I will do when FWSC is finished or when something makes continued development and/or raise impossible.


  • judasrising and Lightwulf like this

#37 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:06 PM

Quote
"In BB3, I saw and battled the Tyrant, it's my glory really (but you seem to forget I want to being his/her War Master rather beat him/her)."
Did you know it was actually possible to make Alma to be War Master in CoP? You needed to find a top top top secret place for that. But it didn't change the ending.

It's so interesting. Probably, I missed it (or forgot). But I want to being Construction War Master horrible robot master, I believe Alma would being Virtue WM.

As for MeleeWizard, I saw last part of LP'd BB, and remember it need the gold tunic to get better endings. Did you say it? I got it after you gave some hints. No hint, I think most missed it.


Edited by Stray Sheep, 09 September 2015 - 08:55 AM.

  • judasrising likes this

#38 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 02 September 2015 - 01:27 PM

fwsc_prompt.png

 

Thanks to Moosh, now I have the [Yes][No] prompt I always dreamed for. Actually, what he gave me is enough a library for any RPG-like conversation I'd just desire. This allowed me to make EVERYTHING I still wanted, including things I scripted, myself, afterwards.

 

 

Now it's really just the testing what is left.

However, the feedback of the testing can make me alter the quest contents any much. If testers think so many changes are required that take 4-5 months to make, then so it be.

I'm also completely prepared for absolute file loss or theft or anything that would make the project come at a Grindhalt.


  • judasrising and Lightwulf like this

#39 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 05 September 2015 - 04:52 PM

So, I'm testing these days. I in fact finished some playthroughs to assure that all the different ways one can play are all viable.

 

Casual playthrough:

Piece of cake.

Anybody can finish FWSC. The mandatory parts are not brain overloads and anything from the non-mandatory parts help MUCH. There wasn'T even need for much optimizing, somehow I could make something that was even more consistent and had even more exploration value than Valami. If you noticed that I keep calling Valami my best quest and keep telling how my other quests couldn't come out that perfectly like that, then you can see it means something.

However, even with all the free hints and all the pay-to-hear ingame spoilers, I bet many will get hopelessly lost at first... It simply can't be guarded against. However, some others will breeze through without asking for help.

 

Completionist and other... "Hard" ways:

Viable!

I could find all magic containers without looking them up in ZQ or needing to look around too hard. Now there are guaranteedly just as many HCPs to fill your may hearts and I actually made sure that one can find them all without looking up a list or needing a lens of truth. There's even a super secret optional item that signals when there's a secret around that eventually leads to a HCP. It was important to get the balance right, since having max hearts is actually a requirement for a great optional thing.

It's also possible to get through without relatively much frustration playing the "hard" way. I died only about 10-20 times while trying to get through the intro areas. Coupled with being completionist is sometimes hard, but is easier in the end.

 

Crazy and most secret oriented ways:

Requires work.

Just like in Valami, the game behaves vastly different if you don't pick up some elementary things in the beginning and otherwise do things out of order, postponing getting mandatory items as long as possible and half-glitching yourself to optional items earlier than when it would be theoretically possible.

But it's also vastly harder than I originally intended it to be. If I make it so hard to do that only the most hardcore players do it and even they only via walkthroughs, then won't enough players see the AWESOME rewards I hand out for this playstyle. So I need to shuffle a few things around and turn some subtle hints to more obvious ones.

I don't even know if this will be possible coupled with other "hard" playstyles. Killing one lanmola then later several lanmolas with just arrows and bombs is the maximum most players would bear with, I bet. Throwing in 1-2 patras goes over the line and players go back for sword and such previously postponed items and BOOM, "crazy" playthrough is aborted.

 

 

So, this time I really make sure everything plays out well.

Just like in Valami, except here it's harder to do. You know, story involvement, bigger tileset...

 

Meanwhile, there are still people helping me. Although I finished the final boss, Moosh was nice enough to look into how could it be transformed into something as awesome as a real autoghost scripter would make.

 

And don't forget that Lightwulf was the one drawing the wonderful Bell tiles, in all season clothe variations, with all the extra tiles including the shoveling animation. His acceptance of my request was what actually made me decide to go on and finish FWSC.


  • judasrising, WindRobe and Lightwulf like this

#40 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 09 September 2015 - 09:50 AM

Valami, Erosion and Rhapsody theoretically take place on the same planet, just in different times and on different continents:

Valami -> middle continent, ancient/prehistoric with science and nature context

Erosion -> east continent, technology VS nature context

Rhapsody -> west continent, magic and religion context, general shunning of females

But I'm uneasy about seriously considering Rhapsody to be part of the Valami universe. Since it was just 2 weeks,  had no time to build it into that any well, so, so far it's better to think of it as something that takes inspiration from Valami.

I recalled some of Eight Powers when heard science(technology), nature, magic, religion words.

God you killed Eight Powers in BB3 once, then revived some of them in Valami universe.

Do you have any reason for it?


Edited by Stray Sheep, 09 September 2015 - 10:20 PM.


#41 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 10 September 2015 - 01:57 PM

I recalled some of Eight Powers when heard science(technology), nature, magic, religion words.

God you killed Eight Powers in BB3 once, then revived some of them in Valami universe.

Do you have any reason for it?

Actually, those words don't refer to the Eight Powers. And I don't fully consider Rhapsody canon to the Valami universe.

Those words resemble the Eight Powers for you because the Eight Powers were named over such fundamental things in a fantasy world.

 

 

 

 

So, now...

Moosh finished the true final boss and MAN, it became the best content in the entireity of the quest!

It incorporates things I didn't even think to be possible. Moosh is much magnificent and perfect not only with the coding part of zscript, but also with planning and designing bosses.

 

While FWSC didn't come out as non-ZC-ish I planned half a year before starting it, with Moosh's additions, it actually goes beyond the line I was lamenting about it wouldn't go over. At this point, I'm pretty sure FWSC will beat Valami in quality. And that... means something!

 

By not being that non-ZC-ish, I mean:

-the boomerang still acts like in LoZ (besides bringing back placed items), you don't control its flight, it won't break to smaller parts, it won't sometimes halt on the ground to be picked up, etc.

-the hookshot still extracts and contracts (with one small extra function at places), it's not like for example the grapple rope in WW or anything completely new

-it's still a top-down action RPG without excessive amounts of functional sideview

 

Even though it has some new great things that are getting usual in nowadays quests:

-warp is instant after last string of a scene, you don't need to press a direction

-items can't be used during scenes

-animation is set where animation is due (Bell enters a dungeon via falling in there (animated) instead of instantly appearing on its floor)

etc.

 

And has some great things, some being unique to either FWSC or simply to my newest quests:

-functional shovel, also with animation (thanks to Lightwulf for the actual animation)

etc.

 

 

 

Now, the beta testing period will last well into 2016 to ensure quality and because hardly anibody of the initial wave of testers has time to test nowadays.

When the first, closed wave is finished, that's when the first public beta (the "final beta") (public to a few selected people) is sent out and when that is over and done with, then is the last wave of testing ("Release Candidate").

I can do all that, since I don't plan making another quest, because the reasons mentioned above. This version issue is what seems the most biting now. If I knew that each thing I made will be playable only till a new wincrap version comes out, I wouldn't have bothered making them.

 

 

That is why I tried to sew up all plotlines and made the BB series truly end with FWSC, but in the effort of doing so, I made a quest (FWSC) that could be continued in many different ways, plus with a few more kind of sequels. The quests springing off from FWSC could be an entire series in themselves!

That's because although I was so happy for Avataro's suggestion that any alternate scenes eventually should lead to the same final scene, but I see now that this only extends what constitutes as ending and if players were hardpressed to get all endings, now they will be hardpressed to get all ending combinations. Many scenes/conversations differ, with 2 main differing lines before the very end and then 2 possible true final scenes. And that's not all that could be said about the case...

And although ALL possible ending scene combinations end without cliffhanger and with stressing the word "end", there are many things that refer to possible sequels ingame. Many. To the sequels I didn't know they wouldn't come.

In fact, the replies under my comment under MeleeWizard's last IoR LP episode were that finally made ma decide that no more quests should I make, but the 4 main points I listed up above (trolling, inconsistency, spoiled players, versions) seals it. Bell would need to travel to 4 dungeons to break all seals.

 

So, maybe now I should get on with drawing concept art? I haven't been drawing for so long and FWSC related things (characters, etc.) would be fun to do...


  • Lightwulf likes this

#42 Joelmacool

Joelmacool

    Addicted to Overwatch

  • Moderators
  • Real Name:Joel
  • Location:Country of Europe

Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:17 PM

While long ago, players were serious 20+ years olds who were happy for a new ZC quest and were mentally able to learn new things, now "players" are spoiled 12 year old brats who take quests as natural and overlook any wonderful feature just to zero star rate a quest because they don't like one certain combo being next to one certain another at a place or because they think one of the pixels in the quest is slightly offcolour. Or because they see a combo react to an item they never seen to react to so far in any quests.

WHY

would one want to waste their time for making a quest under these circumstances? Overhyped members and troll/joke "quest" makers are still worshipped as gods, no matter what they make IF they even make something, not just proclaim they would make the next quest best and enjoy the praises that are coming like they already made it. Even if years passed since their proclamation without any measurable progress.

First of all. I am 13 (near 14). Second of all, I make joke/troll quests not for other people but just to improve my skills of not what to add when I try to make good games.
Also on that "Why" we couldn't see, the one that grew into a size that doesn't need to be that large... yes that one in the middle of the quote, let me re-phrase that for you: Why do you even bother asking why when you already know you shall be annoying or hurting someone else's emotions. It's not like you made the situation worse than it already is... but you have.

Be mindful of the words you use because some day these words can come rushing back at you and it could damage you as much as you damaged the other person you talked crap about.
Sorry for me being a bit... whats the word... out there. But I just hate it when people do this to others.

Enjoy your day :D


  • Shane and Jared like this

#43 CastChaos

CastChaos

    Deified

  • Members

Posted 10 September 2015 - 03:20 PM

Yeah, and after all that yet they post like this and send such PM.
NOT where I would make more quests.

 

Be mindful of the words you use because some day these words can come rushing back at you and it could damage you as much as you damaged the other person you talked crap about.

Right now I doubt there was anybody who were talked as much crap about on this site and its PMs like me.
Don't worry, my words won't be crushing on me until I zero-star-vote quests without playing, call somebody pedophile in a reviews, constantly assume that somebody is utterly worthless and horrible in real life, troll a quest to death in the chat of another quests's livestream, spread that even downloading certain one's quest makes the FBI arrest you and send hate-PM on each and every occassion, to name a few of the many things that happened in the late 7-8 years on this site and around it.

You really helped me to ultimately decide.

 

And don't think this story will last long for me or that I will keep talking about it.

I guess now comes the usual barrage of hate-PMs, the downvoting of some randomly chosen videos of mine, more zero-staring of submitted quests and such. Yeah, there are reeeeeeally things that should go crush down on me.



#44 Haylee

Haylee

    ~ The Ragin' Cajun ~

  • Members
  • Real Name:Haylee
  • Pronouns:She / Her
  • Location:Italian Restaurant in Koorong

Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:20 PM

Overhyped members and troll/joke "quest" makers are still worshipped as gods

> troll/joke quest makers are worshipped as gods.

 

I don't mean to sound condesending, but lmfao what? Joke quests often have HORRIBLE ratings. Have you seen any of the joke projects that Joel has made?

 

Story based quests are still popular, they're just taking longer to make because people are putting as much love and care into them as they can.

 

Also, what's this about overhyped members? Evan's Isle of Rebirth hasn't been THAT hyped since like a year ago. That boat already went back to shore. Now people just like it. A quest being overhyped is extremely subjective.

 

Look at it this way. If you're going to act this way, OF COURSE you're going to get "hate", since I'm pretty sure a lot of that "hate" is criticism instead.


  • Shane, Eddy, Jared and 1 other like this

#45 DarkFlameSheep

DarkFlameSheep

    Polm The Fathomless (Slime)

  • Members
  • Location:Japan

Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:35 PM

Satellite reviewed Rhapsody I think it’s fair. But we should understand user rating or review would be often too radical to even most popular official games, not only CastChaos. I often see even most popular series products were given a lot of worst rating easily if they have some problems.

I hope CastChaos should select words carefully if you want new fans, and not want to lose current fans.


Edited by Stray Sheep, 11 September 2015 - 05:06 AM.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users