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Are Fire Gleeoks a fair/good enemy?


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Poll: Fire Gleeoks

Are they an overall good enemy?

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Are they a fair enemy?

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Are they a fun enemy?

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#1 Deedee

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:02 AM

Fire Gleeoks are a variant of Gleeok which breath flames instead of firing fireballs. For those of you who have fought the base, default, unaltered ones, do you think they're a fair enemy? A fun to fight one? Why or why not? Do you think they can be made fair with enemy editor changes? Discuss!



#2 Espilan

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:06 AM

Good? Under the right circumstances, if they're kept to late-game and you don't give them too many heads.

 

Fair? Not usually. Could probably stand to have the interval between fire breaths increased a bit.

 

Fun? That depends. Do you like your Link rare or well-done?



#3 Matthew

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:06 AM

I don't really think many enemies in ZC are good enemies, and fire gleeoks are no exception. They're annoying, filling the room with hazards, and in most quests, you're just forced to tank their damage. More often than not, there isn't a very efficient way to fight them, and there is quite a lack of counterplay. I'd consider them a boring stat-check of a boss at best, and an obnoxious slog to deal with at worst.

 

They can probably be made more fair with the enemy editor, sure. ZC has a really great enemy editor. :)



#4 Evan20000

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:07 AM

Good? No. They add almost nothing of strategic value to a boss encounter.

Fair? You could make a flimsy argument that a Fire Gleeok vulnerable to projectiles with 1-tile GB walls would be fair. But if you mean out of the box, then hell no.

Fun? Fun is completely subjective and implementation of an enemy is almost always a larger factor of it being fun or not than the enemy itself. Voted uncertain.
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#5 Russ

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:09 AM

I think Fire Gleeoks are possibly the worst base enemy in ZC. There's nothing fun or fair about them. They breath fire at intervals so fast that you really don't even have time to counterattack, and once heads are dislodged it just becomes a mess of fire everywhere. The only options for fighting them are to cheese them with sword beams from a safe distance (not fun, just tedious) or tank them (hardly the pinnacle of fun gameplay). In short, assuming we're talking base, out of the box, unedited Fire Gleeoks, they're awful enemies that should only be used in extremely rare cases.
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#6 Moosh

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:27 AM

Are they an overall good enemy?
No. There is nothing good or balanced about fire gleeoks. Furthermore I'd say none of the new enemies that come in ZC by default are "good". They all range from bad to just okay.

Are they a fair enemy?
Once more, no. The lack of fairness is what contributes to them being a bad enemy. None of your weapons are able to attack them through the mirror shield, so the only way to safely hit it without trading hits is to stand outside of its range. But that range is massive, the only way to design a screen with a fire gleeok that's "fair" is to design a boring empty screen or make some other design decision that effectively nullifies the fire gleeok. Even then, by default the only thing that can hit it from a distance is sword beams, making the fight very unforgiving.
 
Are they a fun enemy?

Okay these responses are kinda all bleeding into each other, but basically fire gleeoks aren't a good enemy because they're not fun to fight and they're not fun to fight because they're fundamentally unfair. Fun enemies have a pace between attacks and openings and the fire gleeok doesn't have any openings to speak of. If you try to give it more openings with room design (block all combos) or making it weak to other weapons, it just becomes boring. Even with 2.5, there is no way to make a fire gleeok fun, unless you're using scripts to completely change how it behaves. Unfair or boring, choose your poison.


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#7 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:54 AM

No. They aren't good enemies.

They aren't fair enemies. Though they can be not terribly unfair depending on how strong the player is at the time.

The fun factor more depends on the player. So I say uncertain. But for me, it's a no.


I don't know how possible it is to fix the Fire Gleook's inherent issues with the enemy editor.

But if you can edit to have a bigger opening based on patrerns, that's great. Or if you can set it up to have the Fire Gleeok's fire as you get closer, that could work too.

As a base enemy though, it's not fun, fair or good, to me.

#8 Timelord

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:03 AM

They are a scripted Cane of Byrna or Magic Cape check.

Otherwise, I agree with all of the above, and in particular, that they are an HP/Potions check.

I might add an EE setting for breath interval to 2.55 or something like that. Remind me when I regain some sanity.
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#9 Jamian

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:27 AM

I remember there was a 1-headed Fire Gleeok early on in one of the Demo quests. You had no mirror shield either. But because the room was empty, you could actually duck in the corners and avoid his breath. It was hard, but do-able.

 

However, if he has more than 1 head, then you're gonna have to tank.

 

I voted "uncertain" for good/fair, and "yes" for fun. Because I still find them fun.



#10 ShadowTiger

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:31 AM

I can see fighting a one-headed Fire Gleeok in a large room with no obstructions in it. I can see using the mirror shield to stand up next to it and use any sense of self-learned timing to attack it when it's not breathing fire.

But after that, all bets are off.

#11 Yloh

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:23 AM

Are they a good enemy?

 

Nope they suck! 

 

Are they a fair enemy?

 

Depends on the equipment. Little to none and I go "Nope". Getting full gear makes this enemy ZZZZZ. 

 

Are they a fun enemy?

 

In some senarios, they can be semi-fun. LV 4 in Liberation of Hyrule had an interesting scenario with them and Armageddon Quest's B-Button Pyramid did something really neat with them, however, those quests are not fun for the majority of people. They can also be a fun troll enemy for joke quests. Outside of that, this enemy needs to go back to the drawing board.  



#12 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:11 AM

They might have a chance if it's a 1 headed Gleeok, but even then the enemy sucks. I only use it for filler or to troll people as a Temple of Cole enemy nowadays. 



#13 Dark Ice Dragon

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:39 PM

good enemy ? yes, is a boss, so he must be hard

fair enemy ? uncertain, is not the same in all quests, if the quest offer good equipment before meet him, is not unfair

funny ? same of above 



#14 TheTrueMarioMaster

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:16 PM

To be fair are any of the extra enemies added to Zelda Classic that aren't in the original game even that fair.  All of them do an insane amount of damage to Link much greater than there counterparts.  Many of them are insanely fast and really hard to dodge/counter with the greater damage that can lead to a lot of instant deaths.  All of them have higher amounts of health, more than two times the HP of the previous strongest type of the original enemy.  Some of the projectile enemies can be annoying to deal with, mostly the octorok variants.  I never really gave this too much thought before given how unfair the original game can be at times.  I mean just take a look at some of the original boss fights and tell me how to avoid being hit in them.  Especially the final boss fight with Ganon who is invisible the whole time and you spend the majority of the fight swinging your sword around randomly hoping to hit him while continuously running into his invisible body by accident.


Edited by TheTrueMarioMaster, 14 July 2017 - 01:33 AM.

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#15 DarkDragon

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:24 PM

The main problem I have with Fire Gleeoks is than quest authors tend to give them billions of heads, in which case you have to spam attacks and potions. Unfun. With 1-2 heads it is fine.


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