Jump to content

Photo
- - - - -

[Tips & Tricks / Mult. Vers.] Under combo mini-FAQ (updated 2/20/0


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Radien

Radien

    Courage

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 30 January 2005 - 06:49 AM

Over the course of much experimentation in ZQuest, I've come up with some pretty odd ways to eek out what I need to do to get a screen to look the way I want it to. One obstacle that frequently pops up is under combos. It seems like they're always limited, eh? Well, there are a number of ways to get around the limitations, and I thought it would be useful to write down all the methods I've learned or discovered so far. icon_smile.gif At least two of these methods are new, to my knowledge.

----------------------------------------------

:::METHODS FOR GETTING EXTRA UNDER COMBOS:::
...For screens that need more than one.


Note: The following mini-FAQ was written for ZC version 1.92. All of the methods I've listed should work similarly in later versions of ZC, but these later versions often have new features that may work more efficiently than the methods listed below. If you are using a later version of ZC, particularly 2.11 and up, I advise you to check up on the newest ZC features to make sure you are using the best technique to get the job done. I cover some of those features here, but these are only the basics when it comes to the capabilities of later ZC betas and builds.

To see the most recent features, make sure you view the methods furthest down on the page. Not all of them are difficult to use.



Method #1 - Secret Combos

Works on: Slashable combos only

This is a standard feature in ZQuest, but some people may not know about it, so I think I'd better go over it.

For easy access to additional under combos, assign the desired under combos to secret combos #16-31. Then, place those flags accordingly on the combos in question.

Advantages:
- You get a lot of under combos to work with.
- Under combos can come with new flags on them, thanks to tiered secrets.

Limitations:
- Does not work on Armos.
- If a secret is triggered on the screen, the slashable combos will change into their under combos without being slashed. Quite unsightly.
- Since it initially requires a flag, you can't put any other flags on the original slashable combo, such as "Armos -> Item." (This can sometimes be circumvented with inherent flags, available in later versions of ZQuest.)


Method #2 - Armos Stairs

Works on: Armos and slashable combos

This is a very easy technique, which is why I listed it second.

On your screen, open up the secret combos window. Click on the "Stair" secret combo, and change it to whatever you want as an under combo. Next, assign the "Armos -> Secret" flag to all combos that should use that under combo. When you are done, go to Screen Flags and check "No secret sounds."

Advantages:
- Triggered secrets do not interfere with the way these under combos work.
- Like method #1, it allows tiered flags.

Limitations:
- For the screen you use this on, you have to give up the "secret sound;" otherwise it will sound very inappropriate when under combos are revealed.
- Only yields one additional under combo.
- Like method #1, it initially requires you to use up a flag on the combo in question.


Method #3 - Floors on Layer 1

Works on: Push blocks

This is a well-known method, though it is a little strange. It works because of the way push blocks interact with layers. You see, the way ZC is set up, to achieve the appearance of one combo being pushed onto another combo, any combo which has been assigned a "Push" flag of any type will be on a "layer" of sorts. This means that it appears above all ground-level combos.

You can take advantage of this! It means that even though the "Push" combo is on layer 0, it will appear as though it is *above* layers 1 and 2 when the player views it in the ZC player. So, go ahead and put some floor combos on layer 1 or 2 covering up the push block in ZQuest. Wherever those floor combos are placed, it will appear as though the block is being pushed over them, like an under combo.

Advantages:
- You can have blocks be pushed over an almost unlimited variety of floor patterns.

Limitations:
- Looks odd in ZQuest. You must check and uncheck layers to see what is really there.
- Even though you can't see it, the push block still leaves a "trail" of default under combos on layer 0. So, in most cases you will have to leave it as a regular ground combo with no properties.


>> Method #3, part 2 <<

Remember how, in the default quest "BS1st.qst," pushing a rock sitting on grass caused the nearby grass to move WITH the rock, making it look like a square piece of paper being slid sideways? Would you like to instead have rocks that move on TOP of the grass, the way Mr. Z did it in Link's Birthday DX?

Well, you can! It uses method #3. All you need to do is go into the tile editor, make a copy of your boulder tile, and edit out all the "ground" that is below the boulder in the picture. Leave that part transparent, as though the tile were a sprite. Create a combo identical to your normal rock combo, but use the new "cut-out" boulder as the tile instead. Then proceed to do exactly what I listed in method #3, and voila, you'll have a non-square push combo that slides across grass, dirt, or whatever you like. ^_^


Method #4 - Dummy Push Flags

Works on: Armos and slashable combos

This method is accomplished through a rather unconventionial use of method #3.

We know that combos with "push" flags on them will be set on layer 0, but will appear above layers 1 and 2. If that's the case, then what's holding us from putting push flags on bushes and flowers?...

The obvious is answer is: "I don't WANT the player pushing bushes around, duh!" But there are many ways to get around that. Put a "push" flag which only allows it to be pushed in a certain direction -- then block it off with a solid combo in that direction. The "No Push Blocks" flag will also do the trick.

After that, put your imitation "under combos" on layer 1 or 2, directly over the slashables and/or Armos combos. Slashing the bush or touching the Armos will remove the "push" flag, causing the combo above it on layer 1 or 2 to suddenly become visible (even though it was technically there all along).

Advantages:
- Unaffected by triggered secrets
- Does not conflict with most other methods

Limitations:
- Armos and slashable combos that use this method must be placed either against something solid, or against a combo with a "No Push Blocks" flag on it. There are some situations where you will not be able to manage this. It can also start to look a little messy in ZQuest.
- Once the Armos or slashable combo is removed, the properties of the (obscured) default under combo still apply.
- Like method #1, it initially requires you to use up a flag on the combo in question.


SIDE NOTE:

You can also use the rather odd method #4 to displace other kinds of combos above layers 1 and 2. If you change a combo's properties to any of the "heavy2" attributes, and then decide not to give the player the level 2 bracelet in your quest, then you can use "Push-heavy2" flags freely without worrying about the position of the combo you are messing with.

However, if you set it to combo type "heavy2", it will no longer be a bush/armos/etc., so this is not useful for creating extra under combos. It is mostly useful for objects which NEED to physically be on layer 0, but visually on layer "2.5." (Remember you can use "Overhead" for anything above that.) This can be used to simulate combo cycling on layers in versions of ZQuest that don't normally support combo cycling on layers (it became a standard feature in later versions of ZC, but it wasn't always that way).



Method #5 - "Layer 2 as Background"

Works on: Armos, slashable combos, and pushblocks. (Practically anything!)

Version 2.11 and up have seen an extremely convenient variety of features which give you more freedom with your undercombos, and sometimes make them unnecessary. Among these useful features are the Bush->Next and Slash->Next combo types, and the Layer 2 is Background screen flag. (There's a "layer 3 is background" screen flag, as well, but layer 2 is usually best for undercombos.)

Checking the "Layer 2 is Background" screen flag essentially changes layer 2 into "layer -1" (read as "negative one"). It still does everything exactly like it used to, but it is shown behind layer 0. Handy? You bet it is. Here's how you can get more undercombos out of it:

After you've checked the screen flag, start laying down your desired undercombos on layer 2. They will appear behind their associated combo, so you won't be able to see them in ZQuest. (If this is a problem, temporarily uncheck the screen flag. Unchecking layer 0's checkbox won't help you see layer 2.)

Now that the combos are hidden behind layer 0, you need a way to make them visible. This is pretty easy. Simply set a completely transparent combo as your undercombo. (If your tileset is constructed properly, this should be combo #0.) The beauty is that this is ALL you need to do. The only problem is that you're still using the same undercombo for everything, so if you want your undercombos to have properties, you'll have to resort to something else. But 2.11 has plenty of other features you can use, so that's not big problem.


Advantages:
- Works with anything! (including cave combos, but that's a subject for another FAQ)
- Unaffected by triggered secrets.
- Does not conflict with most other methods.
- Doesn't require placed or inherent flags at all (not even push flags).
- Is rendered correctly in ZQuest.

Limitations:
- Only available in version 2.11 and later.
- Still uses the default undercombo, and all the combo properties that come with it.
- Requires the use of layer 2 (or 3).

Edited by Radien, 20 February 2009 - 10:41 PM.


#2 /M/

/M/

    6♣7♠8♥9♥10♥

  • Members
  • Location:Gotham City

Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:03 AM

Thanks Radien. This is very useful. icon_wink.gif I had a hard time trying to figure that out.

#3 ShadowTiger

ShadowTiger

    The Doctor Is In

  • Members

Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:03 AM

Oh, man, I can't wait to try these out. icon_heh.gif I knew half of them, and I actually discovered the secret combo version myself at some point in early 2001. Very neat. icon_wink.gif Thanks man.

I've never actually tried that Armor-->Stairs flag. Never. Odd, huh.

#4 Hergiswi

Hergiswi

    don't look for me, i'm just a story you've been told

  • Members
  • Real Name:chris
  • Location:house

Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:48 PM

DUDE...this is awesome! I always wondered how people used multiple under combos! I'm gonna have to try this. icon_biggrin.gif

#5 LinktheMaster

LinktheMaster

    Hey Listen, Kid

  • Members
  • Real Name:Matt
  • Location:United States

Posted 30 January 2005 - 02:00 PM

Yep, all of these are true. And it would have been nice if I had this back in my day. icon_sweat.gif I had to actually figure these all out by doing random tests and crap (I had seen them in quests, and knew that they could be done, so I was determined to figure it out).

But, since I think that this should be common knowledge, I will pin this as well. icon_wink.gif

Yay! 2 pinned topics in 1 week. icon_biggrin.gif

#6 Radien

Radien

    Courage

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 31 January 2005 - 01:58 AM

Thanks LTM! I'm glad you and the others find this useful. icon_biggrin.gif

...Uh, since it actually got pinned, can I ask you a favor? I typo'ed the topic name. It's supposed to say "mini-FAQ." Do you think you could fix that? Thanks. icon_wink.gif

Edit by LTM: Done and done. I guess I could have made another post, but I didn't feel it was worth it. icon_razz.gif

#7 Lonemind

Lonemind

    Doyen(ne)

  • Members
  • Real Name:Seth

Posted 31 January 2005 - 04:38 AM

Wow, awesome... I hope someone copied this down to put into a tutorial. I know I cut it and put it in my "Make a Note of This for ZQ" sheet.

#8 Radien

Radien

    Courage

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 01 February 2005 - 08:19 AM

Update!

Under the "dummy push blocks" method, I forgot to mention that the "No Push Blocks" flag is also useful for blocking off combos with push flags. So I added a note.

It's not like it'd take a genius to figure that out, but I hadn't noticed it until now, so I thought others might appreciate the reminder. Sometimes it's easy to gloss over the obvious when you're focusing on the details...

#9 SwordOfSeals

SwordOfSeals

    Peace now, food later

  • Members
  • Real Name:Akai, really...
  • Location:Xenia, OH

Posted 01 February 2005 - 02:07 PM

I think everyone has pots and treasurechests on the same screen at one point or another. This is very useful. *Goes to save*

#10 Drake

Drake

    Initiate

  • Members

Posted 01 February 2005 - 04:17 PM

I've seen this done before, and have been trying to figure out how to do it for awhile now. Thanks.

#11 Guest_SDFU (Guest)

Guest_SDFU (Guest)
  • Guests

Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:38 AM

Good job. Thanks a lot icon_thumbsup.gif

#12 Radien

Radien

    Courage

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 27 October 2007 - 01:26 AM

Wow. This FAQ has been here a long time now.

Bet you didn't think I was going to update this, eh? icon_wink.gif

Anyway, this is a bump, because I've discovered yet another way to squeeze out undercombos. And unlike the others, this one is not like squeezing blood from a stone. It uses version 2.11 and above, and is probably the most versatile and convenient method found so far. You can find it tacked on to the bottom of my original post, listed as "method 5." There are only a handful of undercombo situations in which this method WON'T be useful. So do yourself a favor and learn how to use it! icon_biggrin.gif

Oh, and use the "Bush->Next" and "Slash->Next" combo types. Those rock. So do "Treasure Chest" combos, for that matter.

#13 Radien

Radien

    Courage

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 20 February 2009 - 10:25 PM

I moved this FAQ to the tutorials section, realizing that it is more appropriate to put it there. This also allows ZC Quest Design to have one less pinned thread, and we certainly can do with less of those. icon_badrazz.gif icon_thumbsdown.gif

I made an executive decision to place this directly in the Tutorials: Tips & Tricks section without going through the submission process, seeing as it's been a pinned topic for years and people seem to find it generally useful. I hope no one minds.

While I'm at it, I've also made a small update to the tutorial. Nothing big; just some clarifications and tiny corrections to account for the existence and workings of more recent versions of ZQuest/ZC.

P.S. -

If you liked this guide, but need some visual examples, check out rocksfan13's Multiple Undercombos Guide. He goes through methods #1 and #4 from my tutorial, with screenshots to illustrate the process. icon_thumbsup.gif


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users