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Enemy of the Month #20: No Limit

Cukeman

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Poll: Enemy of the Month #20 - Special Theme (22 member(s) have cast votes)

Best Overall Enemy

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Most Useful Enemy

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Most Creative Enemy

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#1 Eddy

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 07:31 AM

Welcome to Enemy of the Month #20!

This month, the theme was a special theme, so there were no restrictions at all! We have some pretty interesting enemies this month. Please look through the enemies and vote honestly and fairly. Submit your votes for the following categories:

  • Best Overall Enemy: The best overall enemy this month.
  • Most Useful Enemy: The most useful enemy this month that everyone can/could use in their quest.
  • Most Creative Enemy: The most creative enemy designed this month.

YouTube Video Link
To watch all these enemies in action without downloading any of the enemies, click on the following link: https://www.youtube....h?v=Wzu7mAFvpJI

 

All Enemies Download Link
If you wish to download all the enemies in one get go, click on the following link. This is done so that you don't have to download all the enemies individually: https://www.mediafir...tla2vdk1dzhj0xi

 

The Enemies
Here is all the information and download links for the enemies this month.

 

Large Armos - Cukeman

  • Name: Large Armos
  • Description: An Armos, but large
  • Setup Instructions: Can be made available upon request, but may take time.
  • ZQuest Version: 2.50.2
  • Quest File: https://drive.google...m8zTVJlUEE/view
  • Quest is passworded because organization is needed, but if there is interest I can try to release an unpassworded version at some point in the future. Enemy is scripted. Script can be made available at some point in the future. Credits to: Saffith, MoscowModder, grayswandir, LinktheMaster, Lejes, and Cukeman.
Incredibly Mean Hydra - ywkls
  • Enemy Name: Incredibly Mean Hydra
  • Description: An enemy that starts out with 3 heads that move back and forth as it walks left and right around the room. When each head is killed; more heads will spawn until there are 7 heads active. To defeat it, you must use the Candle to burn the hydra's necks until all of them have been affected. Create for dungeon and character tiles goes to Binx.
  • Setup- Create three enemies- Body- a 3 x 4 enemy. Neck- a 1 x 1 enemy. Head- a 1 x 2 enemy. Be sure all are type other. Set the body's attribute 11 to the combo number and attribute 12 to the script number. Set up all constants to work in your file.
  • Version of ZQuest- Created in 2.50.2
  • Quest File-https://www.dropbox....ramean.qst?dl=0
Rebonack - ywkls
  • Enemy Name: Rebonack
  • Description: The helmed horror from Zelda II: The Adventure of Link has returned and he's looking for you! He travels in a straight line until he hits a wall and then makes a turn if that is possible. If he sees Link, he charges quickly towards him until he hits a wall. Only vulnerable to the sword from behind. When the main boss dies, another enemy is spawned. Credit goes to symbiote01 for the sprites and the idea for the boss.
  • Setup: requires std.zh, string.zh and ghost.zh. Make four combos for up, down, left and right in that order. Set the constant to the value of the first one. To have it make a sound when charging, set Misc Attribute 1. To make a sound on hitting the wall, set Misc Attribute 2. To create an enemy on the death of the main boss, set Misc Atrribute 3.
  • Version of ZQuest- Developed in 2.50.2.
  • Quest File- https://www.dropbox....k-EOTM.qst?dl=0

Firechu - TheTrueMarioMaster

  • Enemy Name: Firechu
  • Description: A bombchu based enemy that leaves a fire trail and explodes into an 8-shot of flame upon death.
  • Version of ZQuest: 2.50.2 (otherwise the enemy may not work as intended)
  • Quest File: http://www.mediafire...v1d/Firechu.qst

 

Thank you to everyone who submitted! Now go and vote guys! Remember, the winner of Best Overall will decide the next EotM theme! Thank you and see you in the next EotM competition!   :)


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#2 ywkls

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:16 AM

I'm in this one, so I null voted. So, my commentary on the others.

 

Large Armos- I've kind of wanted to do something like this myself for a while, either like these or the ones from LTTP. That being said, I really feel that the script should be available. (It's in the rules for submitting an enemy, after all... along with having the quest unpassworded.) I'm sure Cukeman had his reasons... but I'd still rather have an existing script than trying to write my own.

 

Firechu- That's an enemy editor creation? I may have to download it to see how it was done.

 

As an aside, both of my enemies had different versions which were created as a result of script requests. The hydra's other version didn't move and the pattern of the head's strikes was different. Whereas the rebonack was supposed to be only vulnerable when you jumped. But I found that way too hard.

 

Very good job by all!



#3 Nimono

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:18 AM

I voted Firechu for Most Useful Enemy and Incredibly Mean Hydra for Most Creative and Best Overall. Firechu seems pretty cool and would fit in pretty much any quest, while Incredibly Mean Hydra is very well designed and fits the original hydra myth.

 

As for Large Armos, it didn't follow the submission rules, so it should be disqualified.


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#4 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:21 AM

Mean Hydra really likes eating slime off the walls. 

 

Large Armos wins all 3 for me here because it's the only one that doesn't feel cheap and broken. 


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#5 David

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:29 AM

Large Armos is NOT disqualified. Cukeman has his reasons for submitting the way he did so we simply decided to provide him with an exception to the rules. If you want the script, you can try asking Cukeman directly through PM, or something.

#6 Lunaria

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:32 AM

Large Armos wins all 3 for me here because it's the only one that doesn't feel cheap and broken.

^ Basically this. With the exception of most creative, which I gave to the firechu, but let's be honest there isn't any particular new idea here. The classic hydra tale have been done to death in games and other media before so it's not really anything new, and two of the entries are enemy/bosses taken from other zelda games. The firechu is not really anything special to be honest, but at least it's some original thought to it.

Large armos I can see being useful in some quests that feature larger tiles for things, or quests that are going for the minishcap look.

Both of ywkls entries feel unrefined and more like a WIP than something complete. The Zelda 2 boss port is "okay" but it's essentially a rope AI with shields that is slightly larger. The hydra just seems incomplete and broken. A boss which auto damages you as soon as you enter the room is always a bad sign, but even looking past that the AI seems very primitive and not all that interesting.

#7 Nimono

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:32 AM

Large Armos is NOT disqualified. Cukeman has his reasons for submitting the way he did so we simply decided to provide him with an exception to the rules. If you want the script, you can try asking Cukeman directly through PM, or something.

I'd like to know what these reasons are, then. It just feels dubious to me.



#8 Lunaria

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:38 AM

Large Armos is NOT disqualified. Cukeman has his reasons for submitting the way he did so we simply decided to provide him with an exception to the rules. If you want the script, you can try asking Cukeman directly through PM, or something.

I'd like to know what these reasons are, then. It just feels dubious to me.


I'm not really going to change how I voted or feel on this enemies, but I have to agree with Nimono here. If the point of the contest is to further the amount of resources available in the database by promoting people to submit their content, then allowing people to enter into the contest without releasing their content seems counter productive. If the enemy is not fit for purpose (issue with the code, etc?), then the creator could always submit it later. *shrug*

#9 ywkls

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 08:45 AM

I'd like to know what these reasons are, then. It just feels dubious to me.

 

I agree. Especially, since this is something of a precedent. (To my knowledge, all previous EOTM submissions have been unpassworded and the script included either with the quest or zipped with it. Of course, I haven't downloaded everything; so I could be wrong.)

 

What I usually do with mine is make a copy of whatever quest file the script is originally tested in and then submit that with everything but the enemy room (or area) deleted. If Cukeman doesn't want sprites or tiles copied; then he should request that nobody else use them.

 

Another reason is because one of the people who entered will get to choose the next EOTM since this a special month.

 

Anyways, that's all I have to say about the matter.



#10 David

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 11:39 AM

I completely understand that people may want to use Cukeman's enemy in their own quests, and that the simplest/only way to do this is by having access to the quest and the script itself. Exceptions to the rules isn't something I plan on giving to people regularly, but I felt that this particular instance warranted such action being taken.
 
Cukeman's code for the enemy was such that people may have had a hard time understanding it when trying to replicate it due to its disorganization. Additionally, setting up the enemy in ZQuest was also supposedly difficult, and at the time he didn't know how to easily explain the process to someone.
 
Some of you may claim that Cukeman could have submitted the enemy later, but this does not really work when you take into account how EotM works at its core. Each month, there is a specific theme that all enemies must abide by, unless it is a special month in which you are allowed to submit any enemy you want without any restrictions. Because of this, if Cukeman didn't submit his enemy for this month, he may have had to wait a long time before having the opportunity to submit the Large Armos enemy. He simply decided that this month would be the best month to submit it, and I felt that it was fair to give him an exception so that he doesn't have to wait a long time to submit his enemy in a way that abides perfectly by the rules.
 
As such, my decision still stands: Large Armos is not disqualified from the competition. While the script and setup instructions aren't currently available, they probably will be soon, perhaps faster for those who ask Cukeman directly. I think being patient and waiting a little bit is not too difficult of a task.

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#11 Nimono

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 12:24 PM

 

I completely understand that people may want to use Cukeman's enemy in their own quests, and that the simplest/only way to do this is by having access to the quest and the script itself. Exceptions to the rules isn't something I plan on giving to people regularly, but I felt that this particular instance warranted such action being taken.
 
Cukeman's code for the enemy was such that people may have had a hard time understanding it when trying to replicate it due to its disorganization. Additionally, setting up the enemy in ZQuest was also supposedly difficult, and at the time he didn't know how to easily explain the process to someone.
 
Some of you may claim that Cukeman could have submitted the enemy later, but this does not really work when you take into account how EotM works at its core. Each month, there is a specific theme that all enemies must abide by, unless it is a special month in which you are allowed to submit any enemy you want without any restrictions. Because of this, if Cukeman didn't submit his enemy for this month, he may have had to wait a long time before having the opportunity to submit the Large Armos enemy. He simply decided that this month would be the best month to submit it, and I felt that it was fair to give him an exception so that he doesn't have to wait a long time to submit his enemy in a way that abides perfectly by the rules.
 
As such, my decision still stands: Large Armos is not disqualified from the competition. While the script and setup instructions aren't currently available, they probably will be soon, perhaps faster for those who ask Cukeman directly. I think being patient and waiting a little bit is not too difficult of a task.

 

This, I can understand. I just wish he'd said that from the start, it would've dispelled a lot of confusion and suspicion!



#12 Cukeman

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 02:11 PM

Sorry for the delay folks, I'll try to get it available soon. Thanks for letting me share it during an applicable theme. If I'm disqualified that's okay too, I did read the rules and I understood that my submission might not be approved, so I just submitted it anyway and left it up to whomever makes that decision.


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#13 Lunaria

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 03:03 PM

Cukeman's code for the enemy was such that people may have had a hard time understanding it when trying to replicate it due to its disorganization. Additionally, setting up the enemy in ZQuest was also supposedly difficult, and at the time he didn't know how to easily explain the process to someone.

I don't see how this is a problem though. It's not as if people are needed to submit their scripts to the database at the same time as they are here. If he wanted to refine the script properly before a database release he totally could. And I can not agree with bad code and bad implementation should be any reason for why the resources should not be made publicly. Yeah, you're right, it might be hard for people to implement it as it is..., so? I just don't agree with this being a good reason to withhold it.

And to draw a contrast, a lot of people have issues setting up even a global active script they find in the database, implementing custom enemies, ghosted or otherwise, is already above the heads of many. The people who know how to do that sort of crap are people who were willing to spend the time to learn it, and should they really want to implement this script early, even though it would get more refined in the future, then I think they should be able to.
 

Some of you may claim that Cukeman could have submitted the enemy later, but this does not really work when you take into account how EotM works at its core. Each month, there is a specific theme that all enemies must abide by, unless it is a special month in which you are allowed to submit any enemy you want without any restrictions. Because of this, if Cukeman didn't submit his enemy for this month, he may have had to wait a long time before having the opportunity to submit the Large Armos enemy. He simply decided that this month would be the best month to submit it, and I felt that it was fair to give him an exception so that he doesn't have to wait a long time to submit his enemy in a way that abides perfectly by the rules.

Yes, and? Though luck. I'm usually not very stiff around rules myself, I prefer more relaxed environments. But I feel, as I'll elaborate on further down, that allowing this goes against the core principle of this contest.

And allowing this says more about the contest than it does about Cukeman.
 

As such, my decision still stands: Large Armos is not disqualified from the competition. While the script and setup instructions aren't currently available, they probably will be soon, perhaps faster for those who ask Cukeman directly. I think being patient and waiting a little bit is not too difficult of a task.

The matter is not whether or not it's hard to wait, I don't think there is anyone here who is upset about lack of source code for cukeman's entry is so because they want the source code right this instance. I can't of course speak for anyone else, but that's what it seems. And to me, the issue is more with the integrity of the contest. If the point is indeed to promote more enemies, scripted or otherwise, to be available for the ZC community to put in their quests, and on the same time give some recognition to those who provide them; Then I find that just allowing someone to get recognition without providing the enemy undermines the entire premise of the contest.

Now, I don't think Cukeman is acting in bad faith, so I'll assume he does indeed plan on finishing this and release it publicly. (Right?) But as it stands, there is nothing really forcing him to do that, and if the contest is already over at that point, well.... :/


I mean, if the point of this contest was just to show-off stuff, a la RotW, then I wouldn't have any issues with this. But that didn't seem to be the point of this contest.

edit: fixed some spelling and wording issues. #noproofreading is smart.

Edited by Lunaria, 30 August 2016 - 03:12 PM.

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#14 Cukeman

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 10:51 PM

I really like the movement patterns of the Rebonak, very cool.


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#15 Shoelace

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:01 PM

I voted:

Best Overall: Large Armos

Most Useful: Large Armos

Most Creative: Rebonack


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