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What is bottlenecking my system?


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#1 Anthus

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:48 PM

My computer is a few years old, for sure, but when it was built it was pretty awesome. The only hardware I've upgraded is the video card when I went from a Radeon HD6570 1GBDDR3 to a Radeon HD 6970 Dual-X 3GBDDR5), and I have not noticed really any increase at all in any of the games I play. I used to play a lot more stuff on steam, but Sonic Generations, Dark Souls 1, and Castlevania: Lords of Shadows all play at complete shit framerates unless I turn everything way down. Sonic Generations runs like shit, and at the same low frame rate even with everything turned down. It runs perfectly on my weaker, 360.

 

I'm starting to think that another hardware component is bottlenecking my new video card, or maybe it is something else all together (driver issue?). I know there's a hot debate between AMD and Intel, and I like them both, but I went with an AMD build:

 

OyhBluS.png

 

If you want more info about any components, let me know, and I'll screen-cap it from Speccy.

 

Can anyone more knowledgeable in computers tell me why my computer might be running games poorly? If I were to upgrade a component, what should it be? I'm thinking of getting a new CPU/ mobo combo, and possibly a newer Power Supply (Current one is not shown in Speccy, but it is a 550watt Corsair 80+ Bronze certified), preferably one that is modular. I also would like to get some not loud as shit after market fans.

 

It's annoying, cause it still works like a dream for web browsing, music playing, video streaming, and all that stuff. I can have like 15 tabs open in chrome without any issues. I can run several instances of Blender (okay, maybe three tops), and Google Sketch-Up. ZC has some frame rate dips though, too, and will dip into the low 50s which is really annoying. MY video card, and CPU also get very, very loud when running games in Steam.

 

Halp!

 

And thanks.



#2 Ben

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 08:44 PM

Your hardware should be more than sufficient to run those games.

 

- Are you sure the games aren't defaulting to any motherboard integrated graphics instead of the dedicated card? Make sure your monitor is plugged into the video card and not any VGA or DVI ports anywhere else on the PC.

 

- Is there a temperature issue that is causing your hardware to throttle itself down to keep from overheating? If the fans are going full blast, download SpeedFan to gauge the temperatures of each component while your computer is (or shortly after) under load, as it can show you data on all the sensors in your computer.


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#3 thepsynergist

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:01 PM

Do you know why your CPU is running so hot?  What this test done without programs running?  It shouldn't idle at 61'C.  I'd be curious about the heat sink of your system, if that's the case, maybe the reapplication of thermal paste if it's worn down.


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#4 Anthus

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:41 PM

Your hardware should be more than sufficient to run those games.

 

- Are you sure the games aren't defaulting to any motherboard integrated graphics instead of the dedicated card? Make sure your monitor is plugged into the video card and not any VGA or DVI ports anywhere else on the PC.

 

- Is there a temperature issue that is causing your hardware to throttle itself down to keep from overheating? If the fans are going full blast, download SpeedFan to gauge the temperatures of each component while your computer is (or shortly after) under load, as it can show you data on all the sensors in your computer.

 

It is plugged into the card, and my mobo doesn't have on-board graphics, so the card is the only thing you can plug it into. I think the more likely suspect is bad fans/ dirty heat sink. I think there could be an issue causing the CPU/ GPU to throttle. The CPU is really hot and it could be the reason things are slowing down. It is way hotter than any other component. I will download SpeedFan, and try to determine if it is the CPU fan, case fan(s) or just loud GPU fans. I did notice the substantial increase in fan whirring only after getting the new video card, and the fan on the top of the case is visibly working really hard under load. My case is pretty clean, but it does get dusty sometimes.

 

Do you know why your CPU is running so hot?  What this test done without programs running?  It shouldn't idle at 61'C.  I'd be curious about the heat sink of your system, if that's the case, maybe the reapplication of thermal paste if it's worn down.

 

The heat sink, and fan are the stock ones that came with that processor. I've been reading all over that stock fans are usually not the best, and if you are going to have a gaming rig, you should get better fans, and a heat sink. I'll do a test after turning off my computer for a while to see what it's temp is without anything (besides Speccy, and the OS) running.


Edited by Anthus, 13 April 2016 - 09:45 PM.


#5 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 10:04 PM

Do you clean your pc regularly? I mean get the air spray to it every few months?

 

The biggest enemies to hardware are static shocks, water, and heat & dust.

 

Considering your pc isn't fried, we can rule out the first two. lol

 

High temperatures & dust are major issues to hardware performance that people tend to overlook, especially dust. You've mentioned that your pc can get "dusty" and this makes me wonder "how dusty". I believe any amount of significant dust will surely lead to performance issues and you should get that cleaned as soon as possible. 

 

You also mentioned that your CPU is really hot, and it is my believe it could be throttling your system and could be the very thing that's causing your bottleneck.

 

I certainly recommend getting your system air cleaned. I'd also recommend replacing that stock cooler with something better. You don't need to go overkill. My cpu is being cooled by a Cooler Master Hyper T2. It's smaller than the more popular Hyper 212 Evo. But the T2 is great for much smaller cases like the one I am using. This keeps my cpu at a very comfortable temperature no matter how I game on my modest build.

 

I am no expert, but I've been doing a lot of reading about this stuff the past few months. 

 

I wouldn't rule out software issues either. Such as viruses or your own personal pc clutter. 


Edited by NewJourneysFire, 13 April 2016 - 10:14 PM.

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#6 Magi_Hero

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 12:09 AM

Fool around with your AMD profile options in the tray icon.
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#7 Anthus

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 07:24 PM

I downloaded SpeedFan, which is a neat tool, and yeah, the temps on what I'm assuming is my CPU are still pretty high. It just shows Temp1, Temp2, and Temp3 before showing the other slightly more obviously named ones. I'm going to see if I need to re-apply some thermal paste tomorrow, and see if that helps, but I might just buy a new CPU fan like the one NJF posted.

Xu71OjI.png

What's more alarming though, is that it looks like those three fans aren't even running (0rpm). However, if I look into my case, all the fans are definitely turning, but I can't tell if there is one in my PSU, and if it is moving. I see six fans though: One on the top of the case, one on the back, one on the front, two on the video card, and one on the CPU heat sink, and they are all chugging away. There is a considerable amount of dust built up inside the case fans, and air-duster isn't doing the trick, it's really in there, and I might need to disassemble the thing thoroughly, and clean the filters on the case.

It's not a virus either, I scan this thing like a paranoid freak.


EDIT: It says the temps are good there but that's cause I changed the warning from 50 degrees, to 60 degrees. Still, 140 f is pretty toasty. You can cook and egg on it :P

#8 thepsynergist

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 11:44 PM

How many fans are in your case, not counting the Power Supply Fan or Graphics Card fan?



#9 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:03 AM

Your BIOS would probably be a better place to view fan speeds and how many fans the motherboard can detect/monitor (Which is important as software can't detect more than what the BIOS can monitor). It looks like you have a CPU fan and a single Computer Case fan. According to AIDA 64 my Intel i7 temperatures are:

 

CPU: 40 celcius

Core 1: 48

Core 2: 49

Core 3: 49

Core 4: 49


Edited by Nicholas Steel, 18 April 2016 - 06:04 AM.

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#10 Anthus

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 12:47 PM

How many fans are in your case, not counting the Power Supply Fan or Graphics Card fan?

 

There are four, not counting the graphics card, and PSU. Three on the case (front, back, top) and one on the CPU.

 

Your BIOS would probably be a better place to view fan speeds and how many fans the motherboard can detect/monitor (Which is important as software can't detect more than what the BIOS can monitor). It looks like you have a CPU fan and a single Computer Case fan. According to AIDA 64 my Intel i7 temperatures are:

 

CPU: 40 celcius

Core 1: 48

Core 2: 49

Core 3: 49

Core 4: 49

 

Yeah, I'm having trouble telling which fans are what. I've been reading around a bit more about this, and some people are saying that a weak PSU can result in similar symptoms. I don't know if that is it though, and I was wrong about my PSU specs before. I have a Corsair 600 CX Bronze certified 80+. That seems like it would be enough, but I might need a 650, or a 700. I'm not sure though, and I'm going to be cleaning my case today as well. I don't know anything really about PSUs or voltages, so when I built this thing, I just plugged the PSU to the components in what seemed to be the most logical way (if it fits, it sits). Probably not the best idea as maybe a wrong wire could effect fan speeds, or sensors somehow?



#11 thepsynergist

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 03:06 PM

If you have 4, then 2 are not functioning.  I would test them by unplugging them from the power supply one at a time and seeing which ones that Speedfan doesn't detect.  If you remove one and the speed reads the same, it's probable that one doesn't work.  CPU fans are pretty cheap, and that might help with your temperature issue.

 

However, the CPU idles really hot and I would think about reapplying thermal paste to it.  The stock paste that comes with the unit only lasts about 5 years or so.



#12 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:19 AM

If you have 4, then 2 are not functioning.  I would test them by unplugging them from the power supply one at a time and seeing which ones that Speedfan doesn't detect.  If you remove one and the speed reads the same, it's probable that one doesn't work.  CPU fans are pretty cheap, and that might help with your temperature issue.

 

However, the CPU idles really hot and I would think about reapplying thermal paste to it.  The stock paste that comes with the unit only lasts about 5 years or so.

Some motherboards only monitor some of the fan power connector's.



#13 thepsynergist

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:53 AM

I guess a more effective way to check if they're working is to just open the case and look if the fans are rotating while the computer is on.  Don't ask why I didn't think of this before my previous suggestion.  >.>


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#14 Magi_Hero

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 05:41 AM

Speedfan doesn't catch all the fans because every mobo is programmed its own way. Speedfan especially doesn't catch many laptop fans, for future reference. It never caught some of my desktop fans.

My card runs at a steady 60C no matter what settings I put it on. I'd rather a card be consistent. My NVidia would run in the 70s. Never had a card die yet. Mind you, my PC auto-sleeps when I'm away, so less general passive use. Clean your fans, especially the PSU. The PSU will die of you don't. That caked on shit can stop the fan completely.

My NVidia ran hotter than my AMD. Rumors? O.ó

A basic gaming system will get by with a 500W PSU. I have more since I have a few hard drives to plug in, solid state and mechanical. I think a modular 750 or 850 watt. I also have a boner for Corsair.

Edited by tim, 19 April 2016 - 05:43 AM.


#15 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:26 AM

My card runs at a steady 60C no matter what settings I put it on. I'd rather a card be consistent. My NVidia would run in the 70s. Never had a card die yet. Mind you, my PC auto-sleeps when I'm away, so less general passive use. Clean your fans, especially the PSU. The PSU will die of you don't. That caked on shit can stop the fan completely.

My NVidia ran hotter than my AMD. Rumors? O.ó

My Geforce 8800GT liked to live dangerously at a 80 degree celcius idle temperature and would love to go up to 105 degrees when doing any kind of work load. When it reaches 105 degrees a fail safe kicks in that often crashes any running programs (I believe under Windows Vista and newer it would manifest as a TDR). In the old Nvidia Control Panel you could look the max temperature the GPU can safely reach and the 8800GT maximum was indeed 105 degrees (I dunno if older video cards feature the fail safe mechanism).

 

Other than that the video card was rock solid stable, and a large waste of $400 AUD. By the time I decided to do something about it, BFGTech went out of business so yaaaayyy. For completeness sake, it was a single slot video card and I couldn't find any after market coolers for it or a way to remove the shroud around the heatsink because of machined metal fins interlocking it in place over the heatsink.

 

Previous video cards were all single slot designs and had no heating issues so this was very surprising. Now if I go for a new mainstream video card it must be a Dual Slot design or 3 slot design, if I go for a high end video card I'm going for a 3 slot design.


Edited by Nicholas Steel, 20 April 2016 - 03:32 AM.



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