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Things that should never have existed


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#16 coolgamer012345

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:12 AM

Metroid other M, Nuff' said.

*runs*

 

But in ZC quests I would say random puzzles, I have never ecountered them, But I am pretty damn sure they exist.


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#17 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:35 AM

Metroid other M, Nuff' said.
*runs*
 
But in ZC quests I would say random puzzles, I have never ecountered them, But I am pretty damn sure they exist.


They come at ya when you least expect it, watch your back.

#18 Shane

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:48 AM

But in ZC quests I would say random puzzles, I have never ecountered them, But I am pretty damn sure they exist.

swag.qst


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#19 GameLegacy

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:46 AM

-Swordless quests with Darknut spammage... :augh:

-"Easy" Cheat Codes (Startup = "Here, take this OP code. NBD, NBD")

-Touhou bullet hell

-Not Zelda II

-Obscure puzzles in quests (Who would think to burn the map?)

...*Shot for specific reference*

-Still not Zelda II

-Less than 3 HCS... Why?


Edited by GameLegacy, 27 April 2014 - 01:46 AM.


#20 SirKazuma

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:49 AM

Invisible Dodongos that still don't appear with the amulet equipped. (NJF I'm pointing at you :P)



#21 Jamian

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 04:53 AM

Like Likes + Disabling Bubbles

:D

Pairing these... Should... Never... EXIST!!

 

Zelda 1 actually started that trend.

 

Anyway, I hate Like Likes and never use them anymore. For me they're the most terrifying enemies because if I accidentally get eaten by one, it means I probably have to get out of the dungeon, grind rupees, buy another shield, and only then try the dungeon again. Ugh.


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#22 Eddy

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:33 AM

Like Likes and Peahats together in the same room. Hate it a lot...

 

Then you got these:

- Excessive Touhou rooms

- Excessive boss spam

- Shops that sells money for a cheaper price (e.g 200 rupees for 199)

The Legend of Amy Rose 1 Stories that doesn't make any sense at all.

- Unfair enemy placements

- Red Bubbles in a dungeon/area where no Blue Bubbles can be found.

- Eddy's Troll Day

- joelmacool12

 

(just kidding with the last 2, but I guess this next one is relevant:

- "Spike" tiles which have no indication that they are there)


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#23 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

Zelda 1 actually started that trend.
 
Anyway, I hate Like Likes and never use them anymore. For me they're the most terrifying enemies because if I accidentally get eaten by one, it means I probably have to get out of the dungeon, grind rupees, buy another shield, and only then try the dungeon again. Ugh.


There is that other option where you can try to beat the dungeon without the shield, but that's not often that fun either. ;p

#24 KingPridenia

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:47 AM

There is that other option where you can try to beat the dungeon without the shield, but that's not often that fun either. ;p

 

Well, considering you only continue with 3 hearts, trying to tank Wizzrobe magic isn't the smartest of ideas, especially when a ringless Red blast will insta-kill you at 3 hearts and the Blues are an easy 2-hit kill to you. Even then, the statues will probably take their toll on you. Generally (for me at least), once the sword beam goes in a Wizzrobe dungeon, so does a ton of life. Speaking of Wizzrobes:

 

-Blue Wizzrobes in rooms you have almost NO space to work with. Hope you enjoy tanking a full heart of damage constantly from them in the Blue Ring unfairly because of cheap design!



#25 Shane

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

Rushed overworlds made in a day and bad joke quests.


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#26 Wolfman2000

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:55 AM

Peahats...

I wonder if anybody ever filled a room full of mandatory Peahats that you had to kill. (Other than myself)

I want to say Alphadawg did that in his original version of the Unofficial Third Quest. I don't feel like downloading that or ZC 1.9 just to find out, though.



#27 DragonDePlatino

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:01 AM

Quite simply, anything involving mirror wizzrobes. I can distinctly remember there being 3 mirror wizzrobe fights in Hero of Dreams, and for every single one of them it took me an agonizing 3-5 minutes of just waiting, waiting, waiting for one to wander closer to me. But if you absolutely NEED to include mirror wizzrobes in your quest, then at least make your wizzrobe rooms very rectangle-y or raise their homing factor.


Edited by DragonDePlatino, 27 April 2014 - 10:01 AM.


#28 Nathaniel

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:17 AM

I don't necessarily think that these sorts of things should never exist, but should be avoided almost all of the time.  A lot of what RedmageAdam put I agree with as well.
 

  • A room full of peahats that is required to be cleared.  The main strategy is just waiting for the right opportunities, and we know it takes the longest to kill the last one left.  I say a screen should never have more than three, and should usually be mixed with other enemies.
  • Some other enemies are meant to be mixed with others.  A room with only a bunch of like likes is predictable and the strategy gets too repetitive.
  • Screens whose only purpose is to simply walk through them to get someplace else.  Every screen should have something going on in them.  While most have enemies, one that doesn't should be void of them for a reason.
  • Feeling obligated to use the entire overworld map.  I have played quests where some screens felt very empty and rushed (usually some of the last screens you arrive at in an overworld) because people felt the need to use them.  Use them if you have a reason to.  If you have no ideas for it, don't use it.  If you are sick of making the quest but you are determined to complete the project, either come up with some new ideas or make it shorter than originally planned.  Empty screens that are used are not ideas.  They are going through the motions.
  • Feeling obligated to stick to criteria found in a the Legend of Zelda, or another zelda game (remakes are understandable though).  You don't need to go with 9 dungeons exactly.  You don't need a rectangular 16x8 overworld (see last point).  You don't need a maximum of 16 or 24 hearts.  You don't need to use certain items.  Heck, you don't even need the Red Ring and Magical Sword.  You don't need to use every item available.  If you don't have a reason to use an item other than simply obtaining it, then you don't need to feel obligated to include it.
  • Gaining items too quickly.  If I can get the stepladder five minutes after the raft, and I see a similar theme throughout the quest, it says that you feel the need to use a lot of items in a small quest.  Small quests should not have a lot of items, unless you have a very good reason to do so.
  • The lens of truth feels like cheating in most situations.  I really feel that ZC could use a modified version of it that can be used for finding clues, such as reading otherwise indecipherable messages, but not direct answers.  With enough intuition, it can be made into a required item for game progression, but not a substitute for thinking.
  • Touching on the above:  Hidden things that have no clues to their existence.  This has been a big peeve of the Legend of Zelda (a game I mostly like otherwise).  Random chance at bombing rocks and burning bushes should not be a requied element for finding things that are hidden.  Color schemes and the shapes of things are some ideas, as well as clues given by messages from NPCs or things you must read.  Cryptic clues are even better, if you are good at making those.
  • Screens overcrowded with enemies like a can of sardines.  This is creating a challenge in a lazy sort of way.  The size of the walkable parts of a screen should properly reflect the amount of moving parts it can have within it.  If enemies take up nearly half the walkable space, you are certainly doing it wrong.
  • Joke quests that had little effort put into them, or are completely themed around one simple joke.  What I like better are quests that are a serious effort, but contain humorous elements.  The top rated quest in the database (The Hero of Dreams) certainly fits the criteria for having humorous elements.

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#29 Demonlink

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:28 AM

Zelda 1 actually started that trend.

 

Anyway, I hate Like Likes and never use them anymore. For me they're the most terrifying enemies because if I accidentally get eaten by one, it means I probably have to get out of the dungeon, grind rupees, buy another shield, and only then try the dungeon again. Ugh.

Spoiler


Edited by Demonlink, 27 April 2014 - 10:28 AM.


#30 Timelord

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:02 AM

Also how about that Lens of Truth? It's partly responsible for the Temple of Cole and many other horrible things made in ZQuest because of the false expectation it creates that the player will be using it in every room. And it freaking DEVOURS magic too.


Excessive Grinding - If you have to farm up 65,535 Rupees for an optional item that will break the game, fine. But if you have to gather 500 Rupees just to buy an item needed to get into level 1, count me OUT.

Cane of Byrna - It drains magic WAY too fast. Even if it's set to use no magic at all, for me at least, I find the cane actually gets me hurt MORE than not using it.


Both the lens, and the Cane of Bryna can be easily fixed with some simple scripting, to use magic at a specified rate. That said, the lens as a mandatory item, particularly early in the game, because your triggers make no sense should not exist.

 

Magic Key - Another awesome but impractical item. In both the 1st and 2nd quests, you don't need it if you don't unlock every single door. Now granted, I know a lot of custom quests actually give it some use, but still.

Shops that sell keys - So instead of doing the dungeon, I can just grind up Rupees and take the easy way out?


I have to disagree with both of these. I think keys are an overused gimmick at this point, and force linearity beyond reason.
 

4-Way Ladder - Just seems like a gimmick if anything. Plus using this with diagonal movement is next to impossible.


This is actually one of the better items in the game. I don;t know how it's gimmicky: The problem most people have is that the game engine can't decide to use the ladder, or the flippers, on water gap combos; particularly in quests that give out the flippers early. (This is why I'm including a way for the player to manually disable them, and enable them, after acquiring any ladder, and the swim item.)

Diagonal movement is broken in general.
 

Magic Wallet - Infinite Rupees? Really? If it actually worked as intended (unless it was fixed in 2.50 Final), it's still awesome but impractical since by the time you would realistically get it, it's useless.


This is a broken item, for the most part, and infinite anything is rather self-defeating. I only give infinite items, for the purpose of game testing, not for play. To be honest, grinding, or buying items, is part of what makes games enjoyable, if the grinding isn't impossibly difficult. This is where questmakers need to use the item editor and dropset editor, to make larger currency drops, for later in the game.
 

3 Heart Continues - Don't give me that crap of difficulty because having to run to the nearest Fairy Fountain every time I game over or spend the next 5 minutes grinding back to full hearts is NOT difficult.


That's a carryover from the first game, Zelda no Densetsu. I don't find anything wrong with it, but a partial life fill on continue is a better option.
 

OP'ed Enemies - More whoever made those enemies in 1.90. This also includes Stalfos 3s in addition to the above. For 2.50, Leever and Goriya 3s. The former can hit you even when it burrows and is so fast you're guaranteed to get hit unless you have prior knowledge of its existence and Goriya 3 can easily hit you from anywhere in the room. On another note, Summoners if you make them summon high tier enemies.


These make sense only in games where the player becomes overpowered in relation to other enemies. Using these (particularly the 'Death Knight', and the 'Magic Octorock', in games, in early levels, is inexcusable. Pretending they are bosses, and making rooms filled with them, is even more so.

I need to add the following to the list:

  • Raft mazes. These just waste time.
  • Mandatory long paths, that have no shortcuts to open, to more easily navigate later.
  • Self-resetting complex puzzles.
  • Falling to lower levels, as a punishment gimmick in multiple dungeon rooms.
  • Drop-down dungeons, such as 'Nabooru's Hole'.
  • The 'Mirror Wizrobe': Another waste of time.
  • Swim tiles used for ladders, with enemies that can walk on, or next to them (i.e. 'List Isle').
  • Inability to replace shields, potions, or other disposable items (i.e. the same).
  • Red bubbles in kill-all-enemy shutter rooms, combined with enemies that require the sword.
  • Giving out special items at the end of a game, after beating the final boss.
  • One-hit kill combos.
  • Unavoidable damage combos.
  • Windrobe hell rooms.
  • Impossible spike trap rooms.
  • Spike traps + timed-warp + secret trigger rooms.
  • Timed warps that reset bosses.
  • Bosses that require magic, with no magic drops available.
  • Story text that can't be read, or understood, due to absolutely atrocious grammar.

     

Shops that sell you money! :D (I'm guilty).


I'll actually be doing something similar, in the form of banks. Currency exchange, and carrying capacity are a factor in my game. Coins and currency of different sizes are used to determine free space, rather than denomination; and there will likely be at least two main currency standards.
 

I wonder if anybody ever filled a room full of mandatory Peahats that you had to kill. (Other than myself)


Peahats are mandatory-kill enemies in my game, for Enemy->Secret, but this is offset by items that function as a temporary clock, that affects them.

 


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