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What do you look for in quests?


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#1 Matthew

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:13 PM

Title^

What characteristics of quests make you appreciate them more? Do you enjoy complex dungeons, or maybe overworlds? Is music very important to you?

I want to hear your thoughts :)
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#2 Evan20000

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:25 PM

Complex dungeons and engaging boss fights mostly. Story is always a plus, but it's not a chief concern. Overworld is just sorta there for me.
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#3 Neppy

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:31 PM

Mostly for me, the overworld and dungeon design rank high on my list. I always love a unique feeling, fresh overworld with places to explore, and things to find, and with dungeons, I like large cleverly designed ones. Themes for dungeons are always a plus, but certainly not a requirement. Having at least some freedom to explore wherever I want is a good thing also. Story is also a nice thing to have, but not completely necessary. A light story can go a long way, but for the ones that can pull off a pretty deep story. Those are my main things, but won't stop me from trying any quest that I think looks neat.



#4 Eddy

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:08 PM

I always like a fair difficulty curve throughout the quest. Not too easy or insanely difficult, and I would rather see enemy difficulty scale with your equipment (like weaker enemies near the start, stronger enemies near the end). Most quests do this, but I always end up coming across one or two that have difficulty all over the place :P

 

I also look for engaging dungeon design. I like a nice complex dungeon with different paths branching out everywhere, though of course they would need to be of reasonable length, usually around a medium-ish length (like maybe 2 or 3 big floors but no bigger) otherwise they would most likely end up dragging on much longer than they need to be, and I definitely learnt that one the hard way lol. Overworlds are another thing, I don't really link incredibly linear overworlds where you just go from one point to another. I'd like to also see them having branching paths or areas all connecting up with each other in some way via shortcuts or something. They also would need to have quite a bunch of secrets and hidden goodies to stay engaging for me and make exploration fun.

 

Stories isn't really a big deal to me. If the quest has a good story, then cool, but I also find quests with very limited stories as fun. Sometimes you don't need a great huge story to have a good quest. Soundtrack as well isn't too big of a deal, I usually like most songs in ZC quests these days :P


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#5 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:13 PM

I can enjoy a quest for several different reasons. So it's really a case by case basis. Which is similar to how I receive the entire Zelda series in general.

I look for at least average screen design. Just cause an empty overworld is boring. But I'm also not super picky as long as it keeps me focused.

I enjoyed clever design as well. Like with dungeons, and overworld, I like things where when you loop around, you are rewarded for your efforts, by unlocking something like a shortcut which makes it easier to just pass through the overworld without having to go through all the challenges you've already completed.

I don't look for difficulty, but I am much more willing to accept difficulty, if it is rewarded. Thus why Zelda II is my second favorite Zelda game of all time.

Discovery is also nice, but I can have fun with a game that has me just go through room after room if it's well thought out or just fun.

Story is nice, but not necessary. I would rather no story than a bad one. But I like when tidbits of information are sprinkled around the overworld. Where you can discover these stories as you roam the world.

I grew a love for these kinds of things because of Dark Souls mainly.

I always love when that huge area just explored makes you say, Huh, I wonder where those stairs go, and it takes you back to the Undead Burg. Or when you find that elevator in a church and it takes you back to Firelink Shrine.


I guess when it comes down to it, I am most interested in design.

Your quest can be anything, but if it has clever design, with shortcuts, wrap arounds, rewards, and lore, then I am much more likely to enjoy it.
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#6 Avaro

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:58 PM

Most importantly I look for fun gameplay. In terms of zelda-styled quests, I find them fun if the overworld is not TOO large and if there are many secrets to find. Dungeons I prefer to be unique. I also really like clever puzzles.



#7 Lüt

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 04:24 PM

I'm generally open.

 

There's all kinds of design styles, and I've been in the mood for all of them at one point or another.

 

My main concern isn't so much what a game aims to be, as much as how well it succeeds in achieving its goal. In other words, I appreciate anything that's well-done, even if it's not the most enjoyable thing to play. There's something about experiencing a high production value that, to me as both a spectator and a designer, overrides anything I might consider gameplay nuisances.

 

I'm the same way with any creative endeavor, really. I've done beta reading for authors over the years, and being into music and composition, I've also sorted through a lot of people's demo recordings and sheet music. When I started, my main feedback was along the lines of what I'd do if I were them - how I'd change the story, or rewrite the guitar solo, so it would be more "enjoyable." But that was only me forcing my tastes on other people. Now, I just look at what people want to do, and tell them how I think they can most effectively do it.

 

So in that way, I like to play anything that a certain group of people seem to enjoy or hold in high regard, even if I'm clearly not the target audience, because it gets me in touch with other people who are the target audience, and maybe I can account for their preferences in something I might do.

 

That said, I grew up on Z1 for over a decade before ever coming across ZC, so I'm given to standard classic design and gameplay over anything else. I like all the new stuff - tilesets, features, scripts, gameplay styles - that everybody contributes to the game and the community. But they're ultimately deviations for me, enjoyable as they may be, and I always return to traditional Z1 style in the end.

 

Now, it's not that I insist dungeons be a series of square rooms or that overworlds only come in green or brown with occasional shades of white. Somebody can ban me if I start designing like that again :P No, I like to push boundaries, and I enjoy when other people do as well - just as long as the style isn't forsaken in the process.

 

I also prefer large open exploration over tightly packed spaces. A good layout can do like the old saying and make it about the journey, not the destination. (Plus, the constant stopping and starting of the music on an overworld with caves on every screen gets annoying quickly enough.)

 

Gameplay isn't a huge deal. I generally like when things start easy enough that I can get a grip on the style and mechanics, as well as explore and get familiar with the setting a bit, before having the big challenges thrown my way. Otherwise, much like design styles, I'm open to a mix of gameplay styles, as long as they aren't intentionally frustrating, and I especially like a good bit of slaughterific chaos, but only as a finale and only if you're adequately prepared enough that you're not endlessly dying every few screens.

 

I see a lot of complaints over things I find absolutely trivial. I suppose part of the debate is whether scenes should be designed entirely around gameplay, or gameplay should be designed around scenes. Again, there's room for both. Many games are tweaked for gameplay, and it can work, especially with arcade-style games. But it can also be equally effective if a world seemingly not designed for combat gets invaded, because it can show quite clearly that the attackers don't belong in that world - thus, correctly done, it can add to the sense of an unwanted invasion, and make the setting and the chaos feel much more authentic. It's just doing it correctly that proves the big challenge. But either way, if it's representative of a thing that could happen in the real world, whether convenient or inconvenient, then I'm open to it. Authenticity is key.

 

Story's always a plus, though the delivery can make it a minus if it consists of endless dialogue, or is poorly written. But delivery can be improved, whereas having nothing is... simply that. Zero in-game story will never stop a game from being fun, but any level of story can make it more engaging.

 

Music is where I'll get picky. Unless you intentionally introduce a futuristic tech element to your game, almost all available tilesets, and thus almost all available ZC quests, take place in a medieval-styled fantasy setting. Use music that fits. There seems to be a trend of people using things like arcade action music, music from games with futuristic settings, and even modern pop songs in their quests. It has nothing to do with quality - a lot of the music is enjoyable by itself - it just doesn't fit. And it goes far beyond any kind of design style. It's the final thing that determines the atmosphere of your settings. And in so many of these cases, it's an anachronism that, to me, sticks out as much as having a Jeep drive through a battle scene in Braveheart or Lord of the Rings. It just wrecks the atmosphere in a way that few visual design choices can. Music has got to be appropriate, or all your design is undermined.


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#8 Avaro

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

Music is where I'll get picky. Unless you intentionally introduce a futuristic tech element to your game, almost all available tilesets, and thus almost all available ZC quests, take place in a medieval-styled fantasy setting. Use music that fits. There seems to be a trend of people using things like arcade action music, music from games with futuristic settings, and even modern pop songs in their quests. It has nothing to do with quality - a lot of the music is enjoyable by itself - it just doesn't fit. And it goes far beyond any kind of design style. It's the final thing that determines the atmosphere of your settings. And in so many of these cases, it's an anachronism that, to me, sticks out as much as having a Jeep drive through a battle scene in Braveheart or Lord of the Rings. It just wrecks the atmosphere in a way that few visual design choices can. Music has got to be appropriate, or all your design is undermined.

 

About that, it doesn't really matter where the music comes from, it matters how it sounds. Some modern pop songs could work well with medieval-styled fantasy, who knows?

 

As for arcade action music, I don't mind it if the entire quest uses the same style of music or if that style really conveys the atmosphere the author wants to convey. But yes, in most quests I've seen it, it didn't make much sense. I don't know, it's hard to talk about this without some examples.


Edited by Avataro, 16 April 2017 - 05:02 PM.


#9 nicklegends

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:45 PM

Quality over quantity. I'd much rather play a "short but sweet" vignette of a quest than I would a sprawling game that doesn't make full use of its size.

Consistency is also very important, especially regarding difficulty progression and music.

Secrets should be subtle but fair. Aevin's The Hero's Memory did a great job hiding secrets from all but the most observant players.

Some degree of leading is also important. This can be done explicitly, with NPCs indicating where to go or obstacles blocking your way, or it can be done implicitly, with really strong enemies protecting areas you're not yet ready to tackle. The original LoZ might not have guided enough, IMO. Breath of the Wild had a good balance between instruction and freedom.
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#10 Castelia

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:51 PM

I just look for quests with fun dungeons, decent difficulty, and secrets everywhere that encourage exploration.



#11 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:26 PM

I'm going to add on a couple more things to my post from earlier, thanks to a couple key things that were said by Lut and Nick.

First off, as someone who really enjoys a wide variety, I definitely feel like an important thing is how well a game accomplishes what it intends to be. Again, I refer back to Zelda II. The game gets a lot of flack for being difficult, but I don't really see why that is thought to be a bad thing. The hatred for the Water Temple irks me as well for similar reasons.

But yeah, Zelda II, if it was intended to be difficult, why call it a bad game because it's difficult? You may hate it, but it may also just not be your cup of tea. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to put personal hatred for a game aside to see if a game does what it intends to do well or not, but it is what it is. I thought Zelda II was splendid in doing what it intended to do. I thought it was the best at accomplishing its intention until Breath of the Wild came out. Now I don't know.

That leads into what Nick said about consistency. While I am indifferent on music for the most part, there are very rare times where a song or sounds effects may bother me. I don't really care for the sound effects in Link's Awakening for instance. However, if music is really good, it can enhance the game ever further beyond how it is. Perfect example for this is Shovel Knight, the music in that game is god tier levels of apppropriate and wonderful.

But as far as difficulty goes, I am completely with consistency on that front. Even if the game is really easy, it can still be a good game if it has something engaging about it.

Consistency is a huge reason why Oracle of Ages is my favorite game in the series. From beginning to end, I felt it was the best gameplay wise at being consistently progressive. There was never a point where I felt the game just spiked in a difficulty, nor was there a time when I did not enjoy the search to reaching or exploring the dungeons. I even enjoyes the mini games (even if I am kind of eh on mini games being forced).

But I have very fond memories of Ages having one of the better first dungeons in the series. I also adore the Tokay Island section and Symmetry City especially. I enjoyed every dungeon as well, especially Jabu Jabu's Belly.

So yeah, consistency is a big deal. For me, both in difficulty and just being interesting.

P.S. If anyone on here ever makes a game that feels like an Oracle game, especially Ages in its entirety, or Seasons from dungeon 3 onward, I will love you for eternity.

Edited by Maikeru D. Shinigami, 18 April 2017 - 01:28 PM.

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#12 strike

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:07 PM

I basically just look for well executed creativity.

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#13 Shane

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:48 PM

I look for a few things, mostly fun gameplay and good design (good consistency, balance, flow, etc.) overall since that should be universal. But I look to see if the quest accomplishes what it sets out to do. I do not expect every quest to have a sprawling overworld and 100 fantastic dungeons. A quest can have 2 unique areas and that's it, if it's fun and engaging, that's all I expect.



#14 chocobothief12

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:35 AM

Quests I enjoy:

 

Any quest that doesn't use forest temple music for its first dungeon.

 

Quests that don't have high priced mandatory shop items and poor methods of rupee farming.

 

Quests with diagonal movement.

 

Quests with plenty to find, regardless of reward quality.

 

Quests with extra challenges.

 

I mostly enjoy quests that are light on the puzzles and more on the combat. Sliding ice block puzzles sometimes drive me insane, but if a quest has me wanting to follow its story, i'll tolerate it.

Music is something I look forward to in each new quest I start, and recognizing something nostalgic usually puts a smile on my face.

A minor thing I think about is upgrade progression. Once you pick up that first sword and ring upgrade in most quests, the difficulty lowers by a large amount. Doing a good portion of the quest first, or having to go through a challenging dungeon for said upgrades is something i enjoy.


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#15 Moosh

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:00 AM

Some things I like/don't like to see:

  • Scripts: Scripts open up so many possibilities in a quest, so much new ground, so much potential creativity. If you're not making use of them you're pretty strongly stifling what your quest is capable of. The old 2.10 ground has been tread over pretty hard at this point. Of course I don't expect everyone to learn to script themselves, but even database scripts can open some new avenues.
  • More Puzzling Dungeons: It's a common trend to have dungeons that are just a gauntlet of enemies. It's also common to have a gauntlet of enemies with an occasional block puzzle/ice block puzzle/lights out puzzle/hamiltonian path sprinkled in between. Neither of these make for fun dungeons. I want to see some more dungeons that are themselves puzzles, interconnected and thought provoking. Of course this doesn't work for every style of quest, but at least do something different with your navigation. No more empty rooms full of enemies with shutters blocking you in...
  • Modern Quest Rules: If you're using four-way movement in the current year of our Lord 2017, you'd better have a good reason. You'd best be trying to evoke the feel of Zelda 1 or something. You'd better use fast scrolling and let me skip text and all the other conveniences. If you use selectable A button, please use a script to put the quick item switching back in. If you use flipped slash, there is a special place in hell for you. :P
  • Enhanced Music: The MIDI bug has blown out my ears with blaring piano one too many times. OGG it up, at least as a side option. I don't care about lack of looping or inconsistent quality, give me something that isn't bugged.
  • Tileset Bugs: If you're using a tileset with broken defaults, such as Classic or Firebird, don't just leave it. Don't leave the numbers on the Classic heart meter. Don't leave the arrow counter on the subscreen if you're using rupee arrows. Don't leave magic/arrows in the abysmal state they are in the dropsets on any tileset if you use them. Never use the default level palette in EZGBZ. I don't even know why it's there, but it's really ugly...
  • Enemies/Bosses: If you can, please go custom whenever possible. No more Aquamentus...No more NES Ganon...Patra is cool. He can stay.
  • Writing: If it's not your strong suit, don't feel the need to push yourself. A quest can get by on pretty minimal storytelling, I think that's been shown in the past. We have a quest called Zelda's Butt, I don't think there was even a butt involved...

Might post more stuff as I think of it. As for how I rank some aspects of a quest in order from most important to me to least:

 

Bosses > Dungeons > Music > Overworld > Graphics > Story

 

Make me a Dark Souls in ZC and I'll be happy. :P


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