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HQPFs (Finally) Shutting Down


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#16 Dawnlight

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:03 AM

There are still many QPF things that aren't going into a quest project thread and treating people equally is only supporting the ones who would be viewed lower without forced equality. You just can't mention a project scrapper early teenager who can't put anything on a screen that doesn't explode into a million of fireballs in a second on the same level as Shoelace/Peteo/Mudvayne/Freedom/etc. But you do. Even more, you value them higher. That is why I couldn't take this place seriously at all since about 2008-2009.

Since when did we have a merit system enforced for questmakers?  :confused:



#17 LinktheMaster

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:21 AM

The QPDB isn't quite as versatile as a QPF, but that's no reason to leave the site.

Could you please elaborate on why it's not as versatile? :odd:

 

Edit: Not trying to be an ass.  It's just if there's something people think it's missing, I definitely don't mind adding it.  But I'm just not really sure on what features HQPFs have that the QPDB doesn't.



#18 Dawnlight

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:28 AM

If you follow a user's quest, don't you receive notifications that the questmaker has released an update for their project? Seeing that this was the meat of QPF's, this method doesn't really sound like a loss to me.  :shrug:


Edited by Dawnlight, 28 March 2014 - 11:28 AM.


#19 DCEnygma

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

Seems to me that the new method actually makes it very easy to keep up with the quests that you're interested in. It cuts down on some of the chatter that could also clutter up topics inside of HQPF threads, making it easier to get the information of where it's at. It also allows developers of quests to be able to manage things like demos, contributors, and contacting beta testers even easier than before. I really can't see any way that this is a bad thing.


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#20 Anthus

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:40 AM

I can see why people are upset about this, but I can also see why it is a good move forward. Simply, HQPFs are obsolete, and only serve the purpose of nostalgia. There's nothing you can't do with a Quest page that you could do with a HQPF. Just my two cents. If I still had a HQPF, I might feel differently, but I don't see anything wrong with it :shrug:

 

EDIT: So, I guess the only thing you can't do it lump multiple projects together in one area, but other than that, it's a lot better of a system.


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#21 Dawnlight

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:50 AM

Also. if there are projects from users that one perceives as "promising", then that's what the "Follow" button is for. And if you believe that this questmaker is not meeting to your expectations, simply unfollow that quest. Sounds 1000x easier than how QPFs were executed.  



#22 Timelord

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:04 PM

I think that the major 'missing feature' is open discussion. Having everything moved to comments and reviews on each demo, versus a general discussion area, per quest, is clumsy. It would be nice to have a discussions tab, with one thread, to allow players, testers, and the questmaker, plus all those who may be otherwise interested, to discuss the quest in detail.

 

Dev Topics are a substitute of sorts, but the naming choice of the tab implies that only quest developers (i.e those who have been added to the project) may reply. I don;t even know if that is true, but either way, a 'Discussions' version, where anyone may make a new post/thread, would solve the problem in general.

 

As far as I understand, 'Dev Topics' can only be seen, created, modified, etc. by the quest creator; so people can;t start threads regarding quest help, suggestions, feedback, or any other topic. Beyond that, I recall that Dev Topics can only be read by quest project leaders. I know that I only see this tab for projects on which I am a contributor, or creator.

 

Adding something similar, as a 'Discussions' tab, that would allow for people to discuss a quest in the QPDB would be very useful, and much cleaner than the Custom Quest Discussion board in general, as it would make it easy to find all topic related to a specific quest project.

 

Discussions, and reviews, should always be separated in any event; for Discussions relate to the quest in general, and reviews relate to specific versions thereof. .

 

Even so, it makes topics far less visible. People stumbling through the forum will have to select a quest, then flip through various tabs, just to get information on it; and only if they pay attention to that area. One very important thing to remember is that most people are lazy, and aren't going to go through many steps to get to something, especially if they don't know it is there. It makes many quests less visible, and thus project discussions that may interest people, out of their sight.

 

You could probably automatically cross-link 'Discussions' for the QPDB to Custom Quest Discussions too, although how you approach something like that may make it very simple to administrate, or create tedium beyond belief.

 

Regarding the QPDB, I would put the 'Description; tab first, and make it the default, instead of 'Feed'. The Feed tab doesn't give anyone a clue as to what the quest is about, or lure them in at all.

 

Honestly, it would be a much more elegant, and usable interface, with the following tabs, in this order:

 

'Description'  'Screenshots'  'Discussions'  'Dev Topics'  'Downloads'  'Updates'  'Staff'  'Feed'

 

People in Western cultures are used to information being presented in an order, from left, to right; so placing the most important, and relevant information first, is important; beyond that, ordering it in the way that most people are likely to want to view the information is crucial.

 

The 'Feed' tab most certainly should not be first, as the first thing a person should see is the description of the quest, as this is what will grab their attention, rather than a pile of information on when it was updated. I would place that tab last, as bu the time the viewer has examined the description, and screenshots, and possible viewed some discussions, and downloaded files, they may want to know more about the authors, and contributors; and view an history of quest updates.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 28 March 2014 - 01:10 PM.

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#23 DCEnygma

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:18 PM

The Quest Developer can create an Dev Topic update for open discussion, which would accomplish what you want. However, that's at the discretion of the developer. Maybe he or she would prefer not to have a ton of open discussion about their project in the works? That's now up to them.

 

As far as someone needing help, people already post help topics in Custom Quest Discussion. That's still allowed so I would think that wouldn't be an issue. If its for a quest still in the works, then again, the Devs can handle that how they want.

 

The Feed tab actually does make sense because if you have subscribed to a project and you're going to be viewing it multiple times, you don't want to have to click on the "Feed" tab every time. Statistically, it would be accessed the most over any other header, therefore it should be the default. You will most likely only read the description once or twice, by comparison.

 

(EDIT: I was incorrect about Dev Topics, I was thinking about updates)



#24 Avaro

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:33 PM

I appreciate open discussion in my updates too. Even if the discussion doesn't relate to the update at all. :)
 

Regarding the QPDB, I would put the 'Description; tab first, and make it the default, instead of 'Feed'. The Feed tab doesn't give anyone a clue as to what the quest is about, or lure them in at all.

Honestly, it would be a much more elegant, and usable interface, with the following tabs, in this order:

'Description' 'Screenshots' 'Discussions' 'Dev Topics' 'Downloads' 'Updates' 'Staff' 'Feed'

Also, I second this. The current order isn't nice.

Edited by Avataro, 28 March 2014 - 01:38 PM.


#25 anikom15

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:35 PM

In web design a feed or news tab has consistently been the best primary element for a content site. If you go to various websites you will see that feeds and news pages are often the first page you visit. This goes for user content sites as well like YouTube channels.

#26 LinktheMaster

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Stuff

When it comes to discussion, there's plenty of avenues for it.  In fact, I think the quest project system works best for this because it really gives control of that up to the quest creator.  You can create an individual thread for people to make random comments in it and link it in the info blurb.  Or you can let people post them in updates you make.  And you already have reviews for demos, so that sort of discussion is entirely separate.  I just don't think that's a problem at all.

 

For the tab order, I think you're being a bit short sided.  Yes, it does make new people to your project make 1 button click to view the rest of your description, but this is something for projects in production.  It's not a database of completed quests.  You have to also consider the people coming back to your project.  If I visit your project after a week or so, I'm more interested in seeing what you've done since the last time - not the description which I've already seen.  But, what I think I've decided is to let the quest project admins decide for their projects.  I'm not sure yet if I'll let people fully sort the tabs, but I think I'll at least let people swap the description and feed tabs if they want.

 

But what I really need to stress is that it sounds like some people really need to voice your concerns if there's things about the system that you don't like.  I'm not a magician, and there's no way I'll know if people dislike things unless you just tell me.  I can't promise I'll be able to fix everything immediately, but I'll do my best.  But holding things in and then acting like I'm destroying lives by not doing what you want is only going to make us both frustrated.  So for all of our sakes, just speak up if you have ideas for improvements.



#27 Jared

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 05:39 PM

I sort of feel that the problems with the Quest Projects is that it feels disconnected from the rest of the site (Lack of a better word...). With the original HQPF's, people felt free to talk about the project, like it was a whole community. Now with the new ones, it feels as if you're separated from one another.

 

I'm not entirely sure how to explain what I mean....but I'm sure other people agree with me?


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#28 LinktheMaster

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

Well, I think I'll explain what I've been working to alleviate that.  I think I've alluded to it, so I'll fully explain it.

 

Basically, my plan is for having a sort of fake forum under "Custom Quest Discussion" for the Quest Project Updates.  It'll link to this page, where people can view the newest updates and discussions for quest projects.  It'll also have the "latest post" thing that the regular forums have.  I think this will definitely help quest projects "flow" with the forums more.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions though, I'd be happy to hear them!

 

I still think the main problem is that people are tied to forums.  I wish this weren't the case because if people used the site more to its full capabilities, I do think it has a lot to offer.  But, the best I can do is to help incorporate the two more.


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#29 anikom15

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 05:56 PM

I sort of feel that the problems with the Quest Projects is that it feels disconnected from the rest of the site (Lack of a better word...). With the original HQPF's, people felt free to talk about the project, like it was a whole community. Now with the new ones, it feels as if you're separated from one another.

I'm not entirely sure how to explain what I mean....but I'm sure other people agree with me?


This is a common problem in content-community websites. A solution would be automatic integration of database submissions, quest projects, and forum topics. The implementation of that is complex and arguable, so the best thing you can do is link to forum topics in the quest page and link to the quest page in forum topics.

Honestly, I think the Custom Quest forum should really just be for discussion, not announcement or help, as those can be addressed from a quest's page.

#30 Sheik

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:22 PM

As for the qpf closing, my opinion on it is as fully negative as it was the first time it was announced. There are still many QPF things that aren't going into a quest project thread and treating people equally is only supporting the ones who would be viewed lower without forced equality. You just can't mention a project scrapper early teenager who can't put anything on a screen that doesn't explode into a million of fireballs in a second on the same level as Shoelace/Peteo/Mudvayne/Freedom/etc. But you do. Even more, you value them higher. That is why I couldn't take this place seriously at all since about 2008-2009.

No worries there, it is probably mutual.


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