32 replies to this topic

[Rambly]

I doubt it, Nameless. The standard is custo mbosses, combo cycling, great graphics, and other insane ZC tricks. MMDWR, DoY, and SD are good examples of this.

That's far from the standard; your standards are set way too high. It doesn't have to be insane.

The standard is decent graphics (no classic or anything like that), well put-together dungeons, and decent musical choice. I can't believe, though, that people put ... TRICK DESIGN over DUNGEON design. It just makes no sense to me. Especially since ZC is a dungeon editor, not fancy RPG editor

MMDWR's sewers and power plant bored me in the fact that they were monotonous and just plain boring; there was no foundation to keep the dungeons fun. And... Armageddon Quest seems ridiculously hard to me. Sabotage Dragoon was great in the fact that it had dungeons with a ton of puzzles and ways to move around. It's like one huge ridiculous puzzle... take a look at the Mud Monkey Dungeon in demo 2: it was brilliantly put-together, though I kinda wanted to give up after the FREAKING HARD boss. Dreams of Yesterday had fantastic dungeons too, in the fact that you could raise/lower the water level. I want to see more "freeform" puzzles that aren't just ordinary block puzzles, but some that have to do with objects and stuff in real life. I also enjoy block puzzles if they're well put-together and feel more like actual puzzles and not "push random blocks here and there"

That's my idea of standard quest design. I only play quests that are well put-together dungeon wise. If you played Realms in Peril, any of you... it was a brilliant example of this.

Hell no. Nintendo people are to smart to go for some old school style agian. Plus, they don't make games with mis-placed enimes.

There's no reason to be rude, now, Dragonboy. I enjoyed the old-school style. Besides, if it weren't for the old-school style, we wouldn't HAVE ZC in the first place. Nintendo would probably laugh out loud at most of our quests

A little difficulty is good for us hardcore players who can beat Darknuts with our eyes closed You kinda have to be "on your toes" enemy wise. Though, I admit; t'was a tad difficult. Maybe OUCH! should have saved the really hard stuff for later in the game.

[DarkFlameSheep]

Hmm...

My honest opinions

Armageddon Quest is surely great. But MMDWR is better than it. And Tortuga is a different type quest from them.

I think we shouldn't sort out new type quests from old type quests. They don't have mutually clear difference.

Edited by Nameless, 05 June 2005 - 10:46 AM.

[Exate]

Ben's reply scared me because Vader was his avatar. Yeah, my standards are set way too high, but... that's just me.
My standards are high, because it's rare, and I much rather see it as it's more fun and ineteresting to me. The expo is tomorrow and what am I anticipating? ES and DoR (I think Radien submitted another demo).

Yeah, but Ben basically put down the real standard. I'll play any quest like that, but I need to see at least something great to keep me hooked (a custom boss or a fancy trick).

[OUCH!]

Armageddon Quest is an ultimate version of founder zelda.
So I don't think that it become the new standard either.

[Jonathan]

in comparison i think phantom menaces demo quest is much much harder that armageddon quest(demo quest is probably my favorite)

and since OUCH! used alotta hte stronger stuff up front,the later parts in his quest all felt hte same but with new walls

i cant even compair armageddon quest to DoY
DoY would crush it no contest
OUCH!'s quest cant compair to MMDWR either

i wonder if OUCH! has even beaten his own quest without codes

[DarkFlameSheep]

Armageddon Quest is an ultimate version of founder zelda.
So I don't think that it become the new standard either.

I was wrong, sorry. But if Armageddon Quest is truly ultimate quest, someone absolutely try to beat it. We can say it is one of new standards.

in comparison i think phantom menaces demo quest is much much harder that armageddon quest(demo quest is probably my favorite)

I see. But I think hard quest is not always great.

[Radien]

Eh. Ouch should play Link's Birthday DX.

Personally, I liked Link's Birthday DX more than MM:DWR. People who like MM:DWR are usually people who like fancy new ZC techniques. Armageddon is not a quest that uses fancy new ZC techniques, so it is probably better to compare it to LBDX. My first quest, "Master Quest," is also similar.

Perhaps Ouch would play Master Quest, too?... It's much easier than Armageddon, though. But still, you can't say your quest is the best if you haven't played many other quests.

The expo is tomorrow and what am I anticipating? ES and DoR (I think Radien submitted another demo).

Sorry, no new demo this time... :\ My submission to the expo is a series of pictures and descriptions of the DoR tileset (which is the same QST file, only for this exhibit I took pictures mainly in ZQuest to show what tools are available). Still, I hope you like it.

[Exate]

Oh, darn. Well, no problem at all. Always great to see what you're cooking up, Rad.

As for LBDX, that's also a great one. Superb design, and Z really knows how to make some great dungeons. Recommended.
/end review

As for OUCH!'s quest being a standard, I dunno. Would you absolutely want every quest to be just raging with death knights at the beginning? I most definitely wouldn't, and I remember I used to go crazy a bit with enemies... but nothing like that.

[DarkFlameSheep]

I had beaten Armageddon Quest two times. So if you can beat old version MMDWR, and you may beat Armageddon Quest.

Edited by Nameless, 05 June 2005 - 01:04 AM.

[Mr.Descer]

Uh it is stubid to bash Link to Tortuga and MMDWR and say something like Armagedon quest is better. But I think it is wrong to compare these 3 quests because they are so very different. All of them are good, but LtT and MMDWR are just on a different level than AQ. Well thats my opinion anyways. And I wouldn't say AQ is anywhere near to be a new standard for quests. I've played much better Zeldaquests before it. If anything is a new standard for quests, it is MMDWR though many of its tricks had been used before in awesome quests like DoY.


About MMDWR, I do not like it how some guys either like or hate it because of its advanced tricks and stuff. The quets has much more than cool tricks. Good music and fantastic design etc should be the focus. At least Pete some day told me he much rather would let MMDWR be remembred by it's unique graphics and desing than its tricks which even aren't that special anymore nowadays.... But he also said that he is designing a new quest during his freetime in the army and it will(hopefully) improve in every possible area from DWR.

[DarkFlameSheep]

I think it is wrong to compare these 3 quests because they are so very different.

elise said it, too. And I think you and she are right.

I've played much better Zeldaquests before it.

I am interesting in that quest. What quest is that?

I wouldn't say AQ is anywhere near to be a new standard for quests.

I was wrong, Ouch! didn't say it. But he said AQ is a ultimate Zelda1 type quest.

Edited by Nameless, 05 June 2005 - 10:51 AM.

[OUCH!]

I think that most quest isn't interesting.
Because,for example
�EToo long and pushy message.
�EThe field like maze�@where movement is troublesome.
�EExcessive item flag that limits my range of action.
�EToo easy dungeon.
�EOne-way dungeon.
�EUnreasonable item flag that prevent my progress.
etc�c

All quest except my quest apply to these.

Edited by OUCH!, 07 June 2005 - 05:10 AM.

[Zenith]

OUCH might have an ego problem going on there.

Edited by zmaster, 07 June 2005 - 08:54 AM.

[OUCH!]

and more
�EToo wide field.
�EExcess wall with possibility to be able to bomb.
�EExcess tree with possibility to be able to burn.
�EThe flag or device that can't be noticed excluding those who produce it.
�EThe enemy of dungeon that repeating the same pattern.
�EThe tile setting of dungeon that repeating the same pattern.
�EDeteriorated�@graphic

These are very bad.

[Exate]

Deteriorated graphics? MMDWR uses a completely custom set with great tiles ripped straight from some of the best game such as Chrono Trigger.

Plus, long strings are there for great stories. Sure, it's bad to have incredibly long chats, but MMDWR had an excellent length. Field, which I assume you mean by overworld, should be complex to navigate in ways; Zelda quests especially.

Levels should also have one certain look (unless perhaps it's a different floor of some sort. An exmaple from MMDWR: L4 and the Cave under it) and a set of enemies. If you have octoroks on one screen, then the next busts out wizzrobes, that's just stupid. The enemies chosen for the level should also be all of the same difficulty.

As for flags, nowadays I see people put hints to it, such as cracked walls, or perhaps a clutter of bushes for burning which makes it quite obvious.

Then in your first post, I hardly see straight-forward dungeons nowdays. MMDWR is nothing like that at all either. Each level in MMDWR is usually a whole half map. Long, and there is backtracking involved. Plus, the difficulty for the game is excellent to where anybody can beat it.

I still stand by my point. Those who dislike MMDWR for such bad reasons or reasons that don't even apply to the game are jealous people who could only dream of making something so great.