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#1 Skipper

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:12 PM

Now. After seeing about a dozen quests with ratings below 3, it really got me wondering: Do these quest makers even TRY?

Now, I am most definetally not trying to flame AT ALL, but I do want to get a point across:

Recently, I have noticed the number of low-quality quests go up within the past month or 2 months. It sickens me to no end to see how many quests these days seem like the creator didn't really TRY on making them. There are rarely any GOOD quests these days... quests in which the creator put much effort into.

Now, here's my point: Why won't the quest makers try 110 percent? Now, it only seems like the questmakers are giving 60 percent. The last good quests that I have seen in the database are Freedom's quests and Shoelace's quest, The Hero of Dreams.

Now, quests like Link to Tortuga, or Dance of Remembrance are fine examples of quests that show that 110 percent was put into it. But quests like The Return of Motherbrain look like only 30 percent effort was put into it.

Now, here is what I would like to tell new quest makers: Go out with a bang. Even IF you are new to ZQuest, you guys could still do amazing things with the quest editor. Don't be a lazy quest maker, and actually put some effort into it. Put something "unique" into the quest, that no one has thought of before.

Now, I'd understand if the quest is the members first quest, but still, even IF it is, he/she could still do amazing things with it.

Now, let's see some good quests already!
(By the way, I am not trying to induce a flame war by ANY means, but only trying to get recent quest makers to give more than 60 percent.)

Edited by skipper, 29 June 2006 - 01:56 PM.


#2 /M/

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:18 PM

I agree with you. Besides the quests that Freedom has placed into our database agian, the other quests.. ... are very bad.

If I knew my quest was that bad, I would have never released it. =/ But, there's no stopping them I guess.

#3 Dethl

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:35 PM

My opinion is, that when they first join the site, they see these people who are highly respected in the community, and see just one fact that agrees with most of these people: They all have released a quest at some point. Then, they get this strange idea in their head: That if they release a quest, then they will be respected with the greats, and, if their that type of person, may be made a mod (Which is, of course, wrong.)

Now, with that sort of goal in mind, would they want to put in their best effort? Probably not. They would be exicted by the fact, and tell the forums about it. When they see that their quest/s isn't getting any attention, then they think, "They don't care about me anymore!!", and decide to start again, but even more rushed. By the time you get to the end, you have a guy who announces his quest being made, and a week later, submits it, and it gets low ratings.

By this point, said person is probably tired, and gives up on zQuest. Even if one of his first works was utterly amazing, he has been just so run down by people's opinions, and his self-concious, that he doesn't realize it's potential.

-----------------------

Now, if you got the point of that, then there is one simple guideline:

Do not make a quest for the sake of making a quest.


I have heard these words repeated on this forum, and on other ZC forums, quite a bit. It is the first thing you should learn before you go into zQuest, because it stops the above scenario from happening. You should only make a quest if you want to give people enjoyment, and spend godly amounts of time with it. You do not make a quest if you want it for respect.

...End.

#4 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:43 PM

My opinion is, if you give your all and it sucks, so what. If you put in the effort and people don't like the way it turned out, as long as you're satisfied that you gave your 100% in making a quest. Good and bad is opinion. Be open minded. If you make it suck because you're lazy, then it's a problem.

#5 Freedom

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:47 PM

2 points I'd like to throw in.

1) you can't really judge a quests worth by the rating system.

2) With each quest, a quest builder gains experience, so he may be giving 110% with his first quest, and 80% of his 110% may be getting ate up in trying to learn the program, and how to work with graphics.

I worked just as hard on Quest for Freedom II as I did Link to Tortuga, yet the improvement from on to the other is pretty noticable.
I thought about not even submitting Freedom 1 and 2 because I consider them pretty bad, but if 1 person enjoys playing them, then isn't that what it's all about, just having an enjoyable time with it?

If newbs are hammered for their first quests, then the release of their 2nd or 3rd, which would be acceptable by your standards, may never come. icon_wink.gif

#6 Zemious

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:53 PM

I defently agree with you.
I hope this topic does not get closed, he is trying not to start a flamewar but instead get a legit true point across.

#7 Kite

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 02:52 PM

Perhaps it's because people cannot instantly become experts at quest making? Perhaps they are trying, but you dismiss it just because it doesn't meet your own expectations? Perhaps quest makers don't want to read everyone's mind just to make a quest?

I realize you are just trying to encourage people... but well... I certainly don't feel encouraged by someone telling me I'm not trying just because my only finished quest has 3.5 stars rather than 5 in the database (Note: I really don't care about the rating itself. It's that someone is telling me I wasn't trying when I damn well know I was). I'm sure other people don't feel encouraged by that either.

QUOTE(Taku of Miso @ Jun 29 2006, 02:35 PM)
Now, if you got the point of that, then there is one simple guideline:

Do not make a quest for the sake of making a quest.


I have heard these words repeated on this forum, and on other ZC forums, quite a bit. It is the first thing you should learn before you go into zQuest, because it stops the above scenario from happening. You should only make a quest if you want to give people enjoyment, and spend godly amounts of time with it.

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I make quests because I want to convey something, whether it be a complex plot or another idea in my head that I find interesting. Quest making is essentially how I express myself. I don't make them just for people to enjoy... for if I were going for that, I'd just go copy different quests and mix it up enough to work (which I have inadvertently tried in the past, but became disgusted with it). Yeah, I do have the people that will play the quest in mind, but I don't just make it for them: I make it for my own satisfaction that I accomplished something with the time I put in it. (Note that this is not the same as seeking glory. This is self-satisfaction.)

People have told me many times in the past that this is quite possibly the stupidest reason to make a quest ("I really don't see the point in making a quest unless it's for other people"), but I really don't give a damn.

Sorry about sounding so... well... angry, but I felt I needed to get that off my chest.

#8 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 03:00 PM

If I wanted only to impress other people, I'd change my name to Freedom and make Castle Haunt III.

#9 Deathbringer

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE(Dekadx2 @ Jun 29 2006, 03:00 PM)
If I wanted only to impress other people, I'd change my name to Freedom and make Castle Haunt III.

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Wouldn't impress me too much. I'm not a big fan of Castle Haunt too much. It focused more on Realistic graphical scenes then the quest itself. It was a bit short for my tastes. At least the second. Never tried the first.

If I wanted to Impress people, I would focus less on graphics and more on gameplay which what I'm trying to do, but you do need to have a good varity of tiles. Otherwise every area would look the same.

#10 Freedom

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE(Dekadx2 @ Jun 29 2006, 01:00 PM)
If I wanted only to impress other people, I'd change my name to Freedom and make Castle Haunt III.

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Actually I'm setting here working on CH III right now, but I'm not doing it to "impress" or to "ONLY impress" anyone, I'm doing it because I enjoy making quests.
It beats watching the garbage that is available on the tv set and I'm too lazy to go find something else to do.

Anyone that enjoys playing my quests..... well that's just an added benifit, but even if it came down to Elise being the only one to play it, I'd still do it.
Anyone that doesn't like my quests can either make their own, or find one they do like.

As for the rating system, I think it would be better used for toilet paper.
People come in there being rude and trying to be "better than thou" often having not even bothered to play the quest they just finished trashing.
That's why I said above not to judge a quest by it's rating, Nick's is a good example, it's an arsekicker.


#11 elise

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE(Kingboo30 @ Jun 29 2006, 10:20 PM)
Wouldn't impress me too much. I'm not a big fan of Castle Haunt too much. It focused more on Realistic graphical scenes then the quest itself. It was a bit short for my tastes. At least the second. Never tried the first.
][
This is already a nice one about strange rating you didnt like it and one of the reasons is it's to short
If it was longer you would have liked it?
Maybe it felt to short because you liked it , if you didn't like it you would be happy that it was short icon_wink.gif

Many people already rate on screens or before even end a quest , I never rate a quest before I got asfar as I could come in the quest .

Don't look at the ratings play the quest and make up your own opinion on it , some are great others are not your taste but still could be great for other people .

Making Quests doesn't make you respected more or less on the boards , thats your character and behaviour that makes people to respect you or not icon_wink.gif


#12 Deathbringer

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:47 PM

QUOTE(elise @ Jun 29 2006, 04:31 PM)
This is already a nice one about strange rating you didnt like it and one of the reasons is it's to short
If it was longer you would have liked it?
Maybe it felt to short because you liked it , if you didn't like it you would be happy that it was short  icon_wink.gif 

Many people already rate on screens or before even end a quest , I never rate a quest before I got asfar as I could come in the quest .

Don't look at the ratings play the quest and make up your own opinion on it , some are great others are not your taste but still could be great for other people .

Making Quests doesn't make you respected more or less on the boards , thats your character and behaviour that makes people to respect you or not  icon_wink.gif

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I just didn't like the fact that every area is a couple screens away. I know it's supposed to be a castle with chambers and all that. That's why I don't like it. You can't please everyone. I never rate on screens alone unlike some people around here. I'm not saying that Castle Haunt 2 is bad. Just not my style.

I'm unsure about on what the first sentence is supposed to mean though.

#13 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:48 PM

Yay for internet cafes! I can get online and do stuff like this on the road! (current location: Sacramento, CA!) Quite a drastic change from the great northwest Washington!
Anyway, onto the topic at hand. Hell, if people judged me by my first quest: Wolfstyle, I'd be the worst quest maker in the world. The sequel quest I made, Fallen One didn't seem to be much of an improvement on quest making skills, but you could see I was learning more about the editor. Its people who gave me a chance and helped cultivate my ideas and inspirations with constructive criticism that gave me the drive and ambition to keep making my quests. Its because of support like that, that helped make Hidden Duality and Isle of the Winds and currently Lost Isle. None of those quests would probably exist if people simply blasted me on my first try with Wolfstyle. People were a lot more friendly then when I first came onto the ZC scene, which actually was around the year 2000. So yes, I'm an oldbie now, but I was once a newbie. Just food for thought.

#14 System Error

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(Freedom @ Jun 29 2006, 12:47 PM)
1) you can't really judge a quests worth by the rating system.


Con. Frigging. Curred. Namely, too many people jump the gun and rate quests low just because of their skills in playing quests ("HELP I CAN'T FIND LEVEL 2 OMG TOO HARD LOW VOTE 4 U!!!" type of thing, except usually not that exaggerated), their being anal about bugs, or worse, because they are comparing it to other quests (and not taking into consideration the greatness of the quest itself). Cases in point include Pokegamer1989 on " Return To the Dark World", Siguy on "Isle of the Winds", Ireclan and Nameless on "The Hidden Duality: Director's Cut", Mr.Descer on your own " Castle Haunt II" and many, many, more.

While they have the right to their own opinions, it's just wrong to rate a quest as such just because of one little thing. It'd be like me rating your quests low just because the text on the subscreen is badly colored. While I do despise your doing that, I wouldn't let it get in the way of the rating (unless there were a number of those annoying things, constant throughout the whole quest). I also personally find many quests unable to keep my attention. For example, MM:DWR got boring for me around the Research Lab. But I wouldn't rate it low just because of that.

#15 Deathbringer

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 05:04 PM


QUOTE(DarkFlameWolf @ Jun 29 2006, 04:48 PM)
People were a lot more friendly then when I first came onto the ZC scene, which actually was around the year 2000. So yes, I'm an oldbie now, but I was once a newbie. Just food for thought.

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You can say that again. Look at quests from long ago that haven't been rated for quite a long time and are classic like. They got 5s. SR388 got 5, Turnabout got a 5. Must I mention more? The fact is that these quests would be getting 2 or 3s in this day for not looking pretty and all. Of course, it's probably because ZC is getting more advanced and when people aren't using advanced features and rather classic features....you get the point. Heck, even Zelda 3000 got a 4 even when it was a first quest remake with crazy tiles and they are hated now which I could see why.


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