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#1006 Sephiroth

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:55 PM

Old Map:
vPDFlWF.png

New Map:
CTD1c2i.png

After doing some tile editing and pallete editing, I've also made some modifications (albeit minor) to the overall map of the temple. Think I've got something good here for a "Level A".

e: Spoiler tags on this forum could use some upgrades. Like being able to name them. :shrug:
e2: I've noticed the tile errors with the pillars in the boss room and the key room east of the boss room, those have been fixed, but I don't feel like cropping out a new map.

Edited by Sephiroth, 21 September 2016 - 03:00 PM.

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#1007 Anthus

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:13 PM

MVupswQ.png

I'm not 100% sure where I'm going with this, but I'd like to tie it in with something I'm working on. Thanks to Saffith, I was able to set up pretty functional tiers, where-in Link falls from the upper floor, and can fall through multiple floors like ALttP, or ABLW, or that one annoying room in OoT's Fire Temple with the Megaton Hammer.

If I made more areas based off of this, check points would be a must. That's what those warps are. Once you get to a certain point, you can activate warps in case you fall, or need to backtrack, and have already cleared the area once.

EDIT: If it is not immediately obvious, the rooms go from highest to lowest. Also, sorry about the little tiny "D" in the shots. That's from an FFC that I forgot to mark as invisible.

EDIT 2: I want to know if you guys think the shadows on the current-level floor tiles is too confusing. Does it look like a shadow, or does it look like another lower level? It is using transparent tile overlays, so it will appear slightly darker over Link, but in screenshots, it might not be clear without seeing Link under/ in it.
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#1008 KingPridenia

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:44 PM

My first attempt at making NES style dungeons less boring looking. Please be easy on me; I'm still very new to this and it takes me upwards of 20 minutes just to build a single room in some cases. I promise the room designs will start becoming less symmetrical and more interesting as time goes on. This is honestly the first time I have strayed from just using the 12x7 NES style dungeon rooms, so I'm not going to be that great. Obviously, the map is not quite complete. I just want to know if I'm going on the right track or not. I wish there was a less tedious way to do this.

 

ymf5qfwwfib5s9zzg.jpg


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#1009 Eddy

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 05:32 AM

It's definitely off to a good start. I really like the variety of floor tiles (2x2, dark, light) and I think it's looking quite good so far. Tbh, looking at this map makes me want to get back into one of my own projects too :P



#1010 Astromeow

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 10:28 AM

I really like the progress you've succeeded thus far RedMageAdam. I do suggest adding more color contrast. Perhaps a blue-green of objects or wall tiles to stray from a generally frowned monotone dungeon palette

#1011 Lüt

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 07:27 AM

My first attempt at making NES style dungeons less boring looking. Please be easy on me; I'm still very new to this and it takes me upwards of 20 minutes just to build a single room in some cases. I promise the room designs will start becoming less symmetrical and more interesting as time goes on. This is honestly the first time I have strayed from just using the 12x7 NES style dungeon rooms, so I'm not going to be that great. Obviously, the map is not quite complete. I just want to know if I'm going on the right track or not. I wish there was a less tedious way to do this.

Oh I can beat that. I've spent a few days dealing with single rooms.

 

Fortunately, those are the odd exception, not the standard process. Admittedly, they took so long because I had to make new tiles for some of them. The nice part about not actually making a quest is that there's no quality anticipation - people just need functional tiles and sample test rooms to see how they're used. It's just that, every time I'd try different room designs, I'd realize I need more tiles to make them work.

 

But, as for yours, I think you're off to a good start. Keep in mind, most games start you out with simple layouts and basic gameplay then progress into into more complex layouts and harder gameplay, so your learning curve can complement your quest's progress. You shouldn't want to unleash every single design technique and gameplay gimmick in your first dungeon, although you do need to at least make a good first impression, and so far you're clearly indicating non-standard room design will be the standard.

 

Regarding the actual layout, you've got a nice balance of variety so far. Each room has its own little thing to make it unique, but there's enough consistency that it doesn't look like a grab-bag layout-options demo. FIlling the open floor spaces with different-colored tiles is a good idea too. You have to watch out for those upper-level brick tiles though. In the map room on the right, you've got them used properly - on top of a full-height wall. But in the room directly up from the entrance, you don't have the upper-level wall tiles on the part that protrudes down in the middle, so it looks like the room height goes from 2 tiles to 1 tile high. The way you did it in the room to the right of that looks fine - the rectangle in the middle of the room is an even 1-tile height all the way around, while the rest of the room is 2 tiles high. Similarly in the upper 2 rooms, those corners aren't using the upper corner tiles - the ceiling bricks just hang over what should be the corner instead. It can look a little sloppy, especially if it keeps recurring, so those are good details to pay attention to.

 

The map location is good, but I wonder about the compass - and if you really need it at all. I mean, you're forced right below the boss door as soon as you enter, so anybody should know they're going straight back there to finish the map. Unless you're using the compass for some other purpose, like how FITS2 made it chime every time you entered a room with an item, it seems like it would only confirm what people already know from the start. Perhaps, to that extent, you don't necessarily need to use the boss key to open the boss room directly, but rather a full dungeon finale segment that ultimately ends in facing the boss.

 

Now, about the tedium... please, please tell me you're not using the default dungeon tile arrangement that comes with the standard "new quest" file. That's the closest thing to a trash heap I've ever come across in game file organization (sorry to whoever put it together, because I vaguely see the pattern in the arrangement, but it's true). The first thing I did when starting a new classic tileset is rearrange that mess into something actually useful. But more than that, you need to assemble some aliases if you want the tedium of freeform dungeon design to go away. When you can plunk down large chunks of walls, entire corners, doors and the like, things like this can get exceptionally quick to do. Additionally, I see those quasi-diagonal corners in your upper 2 rooms - you might want to look into this tile pack if you want the additional variety that true diagonal walls can add to your layouts. And, if you want to go even more advanced, give this one a try too. (And, if you want to go super-advanced, wait a few months for my absurdly-expanded classic-tiles pack :P)



#1012 KingPridenia

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 05:02 PM

@Lut: I fixed up that error with the screen just north of the entrance. As for the lack of diagonal walls in the top right room on the WIP map, I will probably keep it that way. Yes, I get it looks a bit meh, but I don't want to confuse myself more than I am at this time, and I'm lazy so yeah. And yeah, sadly I'm using the default arrangement of the tileset, so it's going to be hell for me. For the most part, I have taken most of your feedback into consideration. But like you said, I'll probably get better at this and the later dungeons will reflect it, as the dungeons should get more complex in shape and whatnot.



#1013 Lüt

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 07:13 PM

Oh, yeah that's fine, I'm not trying to tell you how to make your quest :P Use the square-diagonals or whatever you want, it's not like I think they look bad. I was just curious if you weren't interested in those extra tiles, or if you didn't even know they existed in the first place.

 

Either way, I feel your pain. I took one look at those dungeon tiles and told myself I'd never even begin to dabble in them. But my creative side shut down my rational side, and I built the entire 8x8 first floor of my Inferno dungeon in freeform, tile by tile. One nice trick I came across is, if I saw the tile (or tile arrangement) I wanted to use in another segment of the dungeon, I'd just right-click, pick "select combo," then place it down in the different position on my new screen. I'd flip back and forth between different screens a lot, but that saved me a lot of digging through the combo list once I had a few basic structures set up.

 

Of course, it was only after all that, that I finally cracked the alias mode. I have to say, they're really worth assembling. It can be a pain to put them together for the first time, but once you've got them together and you can put down entire sections of a dungeon with a single click, all the effort is worth it. I ended up building a lot of them, and it was tedious, but it saves you so much time in the future. All the time spent assembling them, you know it's like good ol' Mr. Arbuckle once said, "I've never anybody work so hard at being so lazy." That was me and aliases.

 

And you know, honestly, I've spent so much time working with those tiles now, I could probably throw together an entire set plus tile reconfig in an hour or two, if you're really planning to go ahead with this. I'm a bit obsessive with getting the vertical brick perspectives right though. Probably most people don't care, but doing it the way you are, just using the horizontal lines, is far easier and quicker, and as long as the layouts are creative and it plays well, I can't imagine anybody complaining about missing vertical bricks. It does look a bit streamlined, in fact.


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#1014 KingPridenia

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:01 AM

Oh, yeah that's fine, I'm not trying to tell you how to make your quest :P Use the square-diagonals or whatever you want, it's not like I think they look bad. I was just curious if you weren't interested in those extra tiles, or if you didn't even know they existed in the first place.

 

Either way, I feel your pain. I took one look at those dungeon tiles and told myself I'd never even begin to dabble in them. But my creative side shut down my rational side, and I built the entire 8x8 first floor of my Inferno dungeon in freeform, tile by tile. One nice trick I came across is, if I saw the tile (or tile arrangement) I wanted to use in another segment of the dungeon, I'd just right-click, pick "select combo," then place it down in the different position on my new screen. I'd flip back and forth between different screens a lot, but that saved me a lot of digging through the combo list once I had a few basic structures set up.

 

Of course, it was only after all that, that I finally cracked the alias mode. I have to say, they're really worth assembling. It can be a pain to put them together for the first time, but once you've got them together and you can put down entire sections of a dungeon with a single click, all the effort is worth it. I ended up building a lot of them, and it was tedious, but it saves you so much time in the future. All the time spent assembling them, you know it's like good ol' Mr. Arbuckle once said, "I've never anybody work so hard at being so lazy." That was me and aliases.

 

And you know, honestly, I've spent so much time working with those tiles now, I could probably throw together an entire set plus tile reconfig in an hour or two, if you're really planning to go ahead with this. I'm a bit obsessive with getting the vertical brick perspectives right though. Probably most people don't care, but doing it the way you are, just using the horizontal lines, is far easier and quicker, and as long as the layouts are creative and it plays well, I can't imagine anybody complaining about missing vertical bricks. It does look a bit streamlined, in fact.

 

I did figure out what you meant when I was working on my quest just now. When I fixed it, it looked much nicer.



#1015 Sheik

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 07:10 PM

Here's a work in progress of the lower lake region:

 

6T8IgVm.png


Edited by Sheik, 30 October 2016 - 04:14 AM.

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#1016 Lüt

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 01:40 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't mind living there.


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#1017 Sheik

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:03 AM

I changed a few things around (fixed the weird lock block statue, made the small rocks grey, ripped the docks from FSA) and reuploaded the map.



#1018 Shane

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:07 AM

Nice work, I like the new changes. Though there seems to be a green rock near the southern broken bridge.


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#1019 Sheik

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:12 AM

No there isn't. :>


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#1020 Anthus

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 12:07 AM

i has a incomplete dungeon map

 

FCNdXoN.png


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