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Obsession with perfection.


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#31 Anthus

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:03 PM

I was going to attempt to quote all these replies, but, yeah, that's not happening :P.

 

After reading through all of the replies though, I can say that I did kind of leave out a lot of other aspects of quest designing from my OP. My first post was focused on my observations of the way people respond to screenshots in general, assuming they have no knowledge of how the quest plays. So, I was only thinking of how stuff looked. However, as this thread has unfolded into a full fledged discussion about this (as it is something we have all experienced on some level) I can see that I overlooked some pretty crucial aspects.

 

If you are going to create something, of course there is going to be an obsession to some degree with it. That's how stuff gets done. You pour over it. You redo it. You think about it, you scrap it, and do it all again. Until you are happy with it. These are steps in the creative process. However, if you are never happy with it, it never gets done. I agree with the sentiment that a quest should be made to the author's liking, and if any accolades are gained, it is consequential. But, you should also strive to make a quest that isn't overly obtuse, or downright broken, fundamentally, or visually.

 

The type of obsession with perfection I was initially referring to, beyond just graphics, was the way the community can react to an author sharing their work. It is easy to apply your own values, and standards, and preferences to it. It is easy to post some off the cuff remark about someone else's work, and may not even mean it to be hurtful, but I'd wager a fair amount of us are pretty sensitive to some degree, and definitely take pride in our work, so those little things can get to all of us. It brings down morale, in some ways. But, I digress.

 

There were a lot of really good points made in this thread. I feel better having read all everyone has said so far about it, cause I do see that there is a common goal of making something good for us as the developer, but also something that others will enjoy. Constructive criticism based on playing a quest is good. It's called QA. Nit-picking based on screenshots isn't. We just have to stop expecting so much from each other in the visual department. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make good screens, and nice tiles, but you will never win everyone over, sadly, but as long as you like it, that's all that should matter.

 

Screenshot sharing creates a whole new layer of promoting your quest, and brings in a lot of critique, and immediate comparisons to others for the some of the wrong reasons. Most people who frequent here, and a lot of lurkers only see screenshots. This is evidenced by the general lack of gameplay critique I see, as most "critique" here is based solely on visuals. That's the obsession with perfection I'm talking about. That kind of pressure can suck all the fun out of making a quest. And that's why we're here, right?

 

 

 

The amount of edits I've made to this post is a testament to my obsession with perfection :P


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#32 SkyLizardGirl

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

The truth about me,  i hate quests that use too much Snes feel.  I use a highly Tropical xxx17 Zelda Nes Tileset, as you can see in my two quest entries.

 

I matched the colors up so you get that fresh tropical bright colorful cheerful feel, but also that complexity. I did this with all my palettes.

 

If you take a screenshot of my quests pics and upload it into your 'grab colors by screenshot thingy' You will see the perfection.

 

Anyways, I like Simple Nes 8-bit type look, that's what i fell in love with from the start. SNES or gameboy tiles are oks, yet i always felt they are sorta Clunky like 'BIG Fat Duplo legos" in my face constantlys.

 

I think 8-Bit is the ways to go and you can draw shapes and improvements to graphics so freaking easily, and i ams good at its toos.* I can draw any parts i wants.<3//

occasionally i will use a gameboy or Snes tiles, but hardly do i.     I like that just like Lunarias quests, but i stick with 8-bit naturally because i feel the true quality comes from the original 8-bit.

 

Its simple and easier to program and draw and Snes takes a Butt load of color palette set-up just to get right. I looked at the pallete setup and you get so many Ugly colors, by me uploading a Snes type pic into plate color grabber from some the quests here, '..so many ugly brown darkened plain colors.'  

 

So yeah, with any other Tile-setups we are two-sides of the same mirror at times when comes to 8-bit perfection.*


Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 26 May 2017 - 08:58 PM.

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#33 Feenicks

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 04:28 PM

It's probably not something someone who nominally makes money from making graphics should say [or, for that matter, someone who hasn't finished a quest outside of 2 very time-restricted instances], but there is most definitely a point after which spending more time on a given thing fails to give returns. It's a good bit easier when it comes to things like sketches/spritework, where you're not going to spend a huge amount of time on any single thing, but I feel that it's a philosophy that works in game/quest design as well. You'll almost always get better and faster at things as time goes on, so there's little point in overpolishing something you'll do better on naturally later on down the road.

 

With that said, though: having used other game making tools in the past [and having actually completed a thing or two in them], Zelda Classic does stand out a fair bit in terms of allowing for perfectionist tendencies to exist. I'm almost compelled to make a tiny classic tileset quest simply to get away from tilesets that encourage that sorta thing.


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#34 Timelord

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 02:05 AM

I do obcess over perfection when I'm coding , and writing.
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#35 Binx

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 03:13 PM

I do obcess over perfection when I'm coding , and writing.

I think it's a bit different with code, it has to be perfect, or it doesn't work right
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#36 Timelord

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 10:24 PM

I think it's a bit different with code, it has to be perfect, or it doesn't work right

 

That's not true. Functional code can be anything from completely awful discord, to heavenly chorus; much like a musical score.

 

There is an art to making code that is clean, easy to read, well-documented, and comprehensible by a wide number of users.

 

Further, the more you work to perfect a style, the more likely you are to spot bugs, or other potential issues before they occur.

 

Consider:

ffc script plink{
    void run(int sprite){
        lweapon l - Screen->CreateLWeapon(8); //You know this is an arrow, but would anyone reading it know that?
        l->UseSprite(sprite);
        Game->PlaySound(90); //hardcoding this makes it hard to change, but we want a unifor value for all instances.
        l->Dir = Rand(0,3); //How many people know why this is happening?
        l->Step = 100; //is hardcoding this wise? perhaps we should make it an ffc arg.
    }
}

Versus...

ffc script plink{
    void run(int sprite, int sfx, int step){
        lweapon l - Screen->CreateLWeapon(LW_ARROW); //Now we know the type of weapon instantly.
        l->UseSprite(sprite); //If the user forgets to set this, it will be a sword.
        Game->PlaySound(sfx); //Now we have an arg for it, but what if the user forgets to set it?
        l->Dir = Rand(DIR_UP,DIR_RIGHT); //Randomise the direction using directional constants.
        l->Step = step; //but what happens now, if the user sets it to an invalid value, or 0>
    }
}

...and now...

const int SFX_PLINK = 90; //A plink sound.
const int PLINK_SPRITE_DEFAULT = 101; //A default arrow sprite for the plink script.
const int PLINK_STEP_DEFAULT = 100;
 
ffc script plink{
    void run(int sprite, int sfx, int step){
 
        //Sanity checks and defaults.
        if ( sprite == 0 ) { sprite = PLINK_SPRITE_DEFAULT; } //Set a default
        else { sprite = VBound(sprite, 1, 255); } //If the user sets a value, ensure that it is in the valid range.
        if ( step < 1  ) { step = PLINK_STEP_DEFAULT; } //Set a default step speed if the user leaves it at zero.
 
 
        //Create the weapon.
        lweapon l = Screen->CreateLWeapon(LW_ARROW); //Create an lweapon with the arrow type.
        l->UseSprite(sprite); //Set the sprite using either the input, or the default.
 
        //Play the sound.
        if ( sfx > 0 && sfx < 256 ) { Game->PlaySound(sfx); } //Sanity check the input if the user provides a sound, and play it if valid.
        else { Game->PlaySound(SFX_PLINK); } //Otherwise, play the default sound.
 
        //Set the direction and speed.
        l->Dir = Rand(DIR_UP,DIR_RIGHT); //How many people know why this is happening?
        l->Step = step;
    }
}

All three of these do precisely the same thing, if all of the inputs are correct. The second, is a bit more readable and flexible, while the third, ensures that user error is less likely to occur, and allows for far more versatility in implementation.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 28 May 2017 - 10:25 PM.

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#37 Binx

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 10:32 PM

Yeah, I suppose that's a fair point

#38 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 11:19 PM

Mhmm. Codes are much less intimidating for a user if they are well organized and contain need to know information, I have to say.

Edited by Maikeru D. Shinigami, 28 May 2017 - 11:19 PM.



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